There are 87 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Yes and the expectation for Crabtree was to be one of those guys. Maybe it wasn't your expectation, but it was the expectation for the overwhelming majority of this fanbase. Crabtree was touted as a top five pick, very similar to the Johnson's and Fitzgerald. That was the level of hype that came with Crabtree. We were seen as lucky to draft him because he fell purely because of his foot injury and because he did not run the 40.

Fitzgerald was good before Warner. C. Johnson was good before Stafford. A. Johnson was good before Schaub. Great WRs can make plays on marginal teams with poor QB play.

As susweel previously said, I knew all I needed to know about Crabtree after he decided to hold out in his rookie year 5 weeks into the regular season. Regardless, I still have hope for Crabtree. I think he'll be fine this year and he'll build on last season. I just don't think he'll ever live up to the gamechanger, playmaker, probowl destined hype that he came with.

Well thats your own dumb fault if you expected a guy to become Larry Fitzgerald just because he was a good college player. Did you expect Alex Smith to become Peyton Manning because he was picked first overall? If the clueless media had told you his game "resembled" Manning's coming out of college then you probably would have had that ridiculously unfair expectation. Football players are individuals and they all develop at their own pace. He's still a solid, ascending player. The holdout comment has nothing to do with anything that will happen on the field in 2012 so Im not even going to touch it.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 12:50 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Sure, let's pretend Michael Crabtree is going to become a top-10 receiver in the league this year.

Dude has been a disappointment. That's not illogical.

I just named 4 guys on our own team that were picked in the top ten and they all took longer than 4 years to become the players they were supposed to be when they were drafted. Those 4 guys are all cornerstones of our team. Its not illogical to think that since Crabtree has improved each and every year that he has not yet hit his peak. You don't like the guy, I get it. That doesn't mean he is incapable of improving.

I like Crabs. I like all the guys you mentioned. I just think he's a giant disappointment. He has not played up to the expectations, not even close!

I'm not going to talk about the other guys. They have their own situations that are unique to them. Right now, we're talking about Crabtree.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
No, there are other external situation involved for him to get those catches like Ginn clearing out for him to make some of those catches. Your conclusion, however, is a reasonable one. But it's still a conclusion, not just a fact.

If he didn't get enough separation he wouldn't have been in position to catch the ball. Give the guy some damn credit already

OK, just thinking about those WR bubble screens and pick plays that got him open. He had some help is what I'm saying. Not all on him for all of those 72 catches.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
I like Crabs. I like all the guys you mentioned. I just think he's a giant disappointment. He has not played up to the expectations, not even close!

I'm not going to talk about the other guys. They have their own situations that are unique to them. Right now, we're talking about Crabtree.

Lol you won't talk about the other guys because they are perfect examples as to why your expectations are not fair. When he was drafted by the niners we ran the ball almost 60% of the time. For this reason, I expected Crabtree to be our most productive WR but not put up elite numbers that WR's in pass happy systems put up. This is pretty much what he has done so far and he is still ascending.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 12:56 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Sure, let's pretend Michael Crabtree is going to become a top-10 receiver in the league this year.

Dude has been a disappointment. That's not illogical.

I just named 4 guys on our own team that were picked in the top ten and they all took longer than 4 years to become the players they were supposed to be when they were drafted. Those 4 guys are all cornerstones of our team. Its not illogical to think that since Crabtree has improved each and every year that he has not yet hit his peak. You don't like the guy, I get it. That doesn't mean he is incapable of improving.

The difference is those 4 guys worked hard and fortunately maintained their health. I think the closest analogy is Vernon Davis - who really has been the #1 receiving option on this team. Davis wasn't known for his hands, even in college. However Davis put in extra time to get better and establish a rapport with Smith. It's very rare that you see Smith and Davis have a "miscommunication". My point is clutch receivers understand that you have to practice hard to with your QB - whoever that is to eventually make clutch plays. In 4 years I'm still waiting for the Crabtree clutch signature moment where I can say, Crabtree made a play no one else on this team could have made.... Yes, yes he's a solid #2 receiver and if that's the consensus around here, that means he's eminently replaceable. You can scheme that production via other players IMHO, you can't scheme for example, Davis' production and what he means as an impact player to this offense.

When you need a (receiving) play, who do you look for on this offense?
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
I like Crabs. I like all the guys you mentioned. I just think he's a giant disappointment. He has not played up to the expectations, not even close!

I'm not going to talk about the other guys. They have their own situations that are unique to them. Right now, we're talking about Crabtree.

Lol you won't talk about the other guys because they are perfect examples as to why your expectations are not fair.

How are my expectations not fair?

Alex Smith... disappointment being taken #1? Absolutely.

Were all the other guys disappointments on their original teams? Absolutely.

Crabs COULD improve, but I doubt it.
Originally posted by qnnhan7
Originally posted by NinerGM:
The difference is those 4 guys worked hard and fortunately maintained their health. I think the closest analogy is Vernon Davis - who really has been the #1 receiving option on this team. Davis wasn't known for his hands, even in college. However Davis put in extra time to get better and establish a rapport with Smith. It's very rare that you see Smith and Davis have a "miscommunication". My point is clutch receivers understand that you have to practice hard to with your QB - whoever that is to eventually make clutch plays. In 4 years I'm still waiting for the Crabtree clutch signature moment where I can say, Crabtree made a play no one else on this team could have made.... Yes, yes he's a solid #2 receiver and if that's the consensus around here, that means he's eminently replaceable. You can scheme that production via other players IMHO, you can't scheme for example, Davis' production and what he means as an impact player to this offense.

When you need a (receiving) play, who do you look for on this offense?

Every report prior to this minor injury have been that Crabtree is in tip top condition and looks great.

Solid #2 receivers are not easily replaceable like you say. Before Crabtree we didn't have any receiver on the roster who could have been a starter on another team for about 7 years in a row.

After 3 years and 3 different head coaches, I think being a "solid #2" and obviously improving is pretty good. Vernon Davis didn't look like anything special until his 4th year.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:03 PM ]
Originally posted by NickSh49:
How are my expectations not fair?

Alex Smith... disappointment being taken #1? Absolutely.

Were all the other guys disappointments on their original teams? Absolutely.

Crabs COULD improve, but I doubt it.

Its funny you doubt that he could improve when he has improved every year he has been in the NFL.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:05 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
How are my expectations not fair?

Alex Smith... disappointment being taken #1? Absolutely.

Were all the other guys disappointments on their original teams? Absolutely.

Crabs COULD improve, but I doubt it.

Its funny you doubt that he could improve when he has improved every year he has been in the NFL.

I doubt he becomes an elite receiver in the NFL. That I definitely doubt.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by qnnhan7
Originally posted by NinerGM:
The difference is those 4 guys worked hard and fortunately maintained their health. I think the closest analogy is Vernon Davis - who really has been the #1 receiving option on this team. Davis wasn't known for his hands, even in college. However Davis put in extra time to get better and establish a rapport with Smith. It's very rare that you see Smith and Davis have a "miscommunication". My point is clutch receivers understand that you have to practice hard to with your QB - whoever that is to eventually make clutch plays. In 4 years I'm still waiting for the Crabtree clutch signature moment where I can say, Crabtree made a play no one else on this team could have made.... Yes, yes he's a solid #2 receiver and if that's the consensus around here, that means he's eminently replaceable. You can scheme that production via other players IMHO, you can't scheme for example, Davis' production and what he means as an impact player to this offense.

When you need a (receiving) play, who do you look for on this offense?

Every report prior to this minor injury have been that Crabtree is in tip top condition and looks great.

Solid #2 receivers are not easily replaceable like you say. Before Crabtree we didn't have any receiver on the roster who could have been a starter on another team for about 7 years in a row.

After 3 years and 3 different head coaches, I think being a "solid #2" and obviously improving is pretty good. Vernon Davis didn't look like anything special until his 4th year.

You don't draft "solid #2's" at #10 overall.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
You don't draft "solid #2's" at #10 overall.

Wow I didn't know you were a GM. Can you name me any receiver picked in the top ten thats not named Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson that you are basing these expectations off of? There is only 1 top ten receiver other than those two that I can think of that became an immediate #1 and thats AJ Green. He, along with Fitz and CJ were actually top 5 picks, not top #10.
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
You don't draft "solid #2's" at #10 overall.

Wow I didn't know you were a GM. Can you name me any receiver picked in the top ten thats not named Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson that you are basing these expectations off of?

Dude we're just going in circles. I'm glad you believe Crabs will get better. I'm glad you are happy with his production. I'm not. I hope he gets better, but I doubt it.

You brought up Vernon earlier. I always thought Vernon was capable of being great. I have major doubts about Crabtree. He's a giant disappointment.

You can't talk about Crabs' ability in the same breath as Calvin, Larry, Andre, Roddy, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Marshall... I could go on.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Dude we're just going in circles. I'm glad you believe Crabs will get better. I'm glad you are happy with his production. I'm not. I hope he gets better, but I doubt it.

You brought up Vernon earlier. I always thought Vernon was capable of being great. I have major doubts about Crabtree. He's a giant disappointment.

You can't talk about Crabs' ability in the same breath as Calvin, Larry, Andre, Roddy, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Marshall... I could go on.

Crabtree's final 10 regular season games of 2011 yielded production that was on par with all of those guys. Go ahead and look it up.

Can you name me any receiver picked in the top ten thats not named Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or AJ Green (who were all picked top 5) that became an immediate #1?
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:17 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Dude we're just going in circles. I'm glad you believe Crabs will get better. I'm glad you are happy with his production. I'm not. I hope he gets better, but I doubt it.

You brought up Vernon earlier. I always thought Vernon was capable of being great. I have major doubts about Crabtree. He's a giant disappointment.

You can't talk about Crabs' ability in the same breath as Calvin, Larry, Andre, Roddy, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Marshall... I could go on.

Crabtree's final 10 games of 2011 yielded production that was on par with all of those guys. Go ahead and look it up.

Can you name me any receiver picked in the top ten thats not named Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or AJ Green (who were all picked top 5) that became an immediate #1?

4 TD's? 2 in one game? You serious?
[ Edited by NickSh49 on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:17 PM ]
Originally posted by NickSh49:
4 TD's? 2 in one game? You serious?

Alex Smith threw 17 total touchdowns dude. We broke the field goal record. Im obviously talking about catches and yardage, which are just as important for a young developing receiver
[ Edited by DirtyP on Aug 4, 2012 at 1:20 PM ]