POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
I agree with this.

I don't buy the "Alex Smith is his QB" reason as well. The capabilities of the QB is a big factor in WR play for sure, but at some point the WR's own talent has to take over. I've seen countless other WRs succeed with below-par QBs: Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson to name a few. All three had times when they had inferior QB play and still produced on the field. Did you forget the expectations? We all thought that given his college production he would be a sure-fire Probowler and on the level of those aforementioned WRs.

I answered "No" on the poll, I don't think he is a bust. He's produced decently. I do think that he is a major disappointment.

To name a few? You just named 3 of the best wide receivers of their era and all of them have had excellent QBs throwing to them. Crabtree is only in his 4th year and only his second in a real NFL offensive system.

Does anyone here realize that Alex Smith only threw about half as many passes as guys like Stafford, Brees, Brady, Rodgers etc? Does anyone else think its a bit of a double standard to compare Crabtree's production to Fitz, Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson if we are not going to be comparing Alex's stats to the elite QBs of the league? Alex Smith was the #1st overall pick and his best season, which was 8 years into his career, yielded 17 touchdowns and no one is calling him a bust anymore

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
I agree with this.

I don't buy the "Alex Smith is his QB" reason as well. The capabilities of the QB is a big factor in WR play for sure, but at some point the WR's own talent has to take over. I've seen countless other WRs succeed with below-par QBs: Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson to name a few. All three had times when they had inferior QB play and still produced on the field. Did you forget the expectations? We all thought that given his college production he would be a sure-fire Probowler and on the level of those aforementioned WRs.

I answered "No" on the poll, I don't think he is a bust. He's produced decently. I do think that he is a major disappointment.

To name a few? You just named 3 of the best wide receivers of their era and all of them have had excellent QBs throwing to them. Crabtree is only in his 4th year and only his second in a real NFL offensive system.

Fitz had 80 receptions and 1,400 yds last season... so who was his excellent QB again?

... and it was Calvin Johnson making incredible plays to make Shaun Hill look good, lolz... ( just pitch it up, he'll go up and get it )

Originally posted by DirtyP:
Does anyone here realize that Alex Smith only threw about half as many passes as guys like Stafford, Brees, Brady, Rodgers etc? Does anyone else think its a bit of a double standard to compare Crabtree's production to Fitz, Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson if we are not going to be comparing Alex's stats to the elite QBs of the league? Alex Smith was the #1st overall pick and his best season yielded 17 touchdowns and no one is calling him a bust anymore

I don't actually have issues with Crabtree's production. My issue is that he doesn't get much separation... and that he doesn't have a Jerry Rice work ethic.

Originally posted by DirtyP:
Lol no thats called an opinion. You should learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Here is an example of an opinion

Michael Crabtree cannot get separation

Heres another example of an opinion

his hands are not as great as advertised

Here is an example of a fact

Michael Crabtree gained enough separation to haul in 72 receptions with no legitimate wide receiver across from him.

Not arguing the main point, but that's a conclusion based on a fact. Fact would be he made 72 reception.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Fitz had 80 receptions and 1,400 yds last season... so who was his excellent QB again?

... and it was Calvin Johnson making incredible plays to make Shaun Hill look good, lolz... ( just pitch it up, he'll go up and get it )

Fitzgerald got to develop with Anquon Boldin on the other side and Kurt Warner throwing them the ball. He's also the very best receiver in the league. I like Alex Smith but I don't expect him to put up Aaron Rodgers numbers

Calvin Johnson is Calvin Johnson. Anyone who expects a player to outplay a complete freak of nature like CJ just because a guy was picked #10th overall is just ignorant.

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
I agree with this.

I don't buy the "Alex Smith is his QB" reason as well. The capabilities of the QB is a big factor in WR play for sure, but at some point the WR's own talent has to take over. I've seen countless other WRs succeed with below-par QBs: Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson to name a few. All three had times when they had inferior QB play and still produced on the field. Did you forget the expectations? We all thought that given his college production he would be a sure-fire Probowler and on the level of those aforementioned WRs.

I answered "No" on the poll, I don't think he is a bust. He's produced decently. I do think that he is a major disappointment.

To name a few? You just named 3 of the best wide receivers of their era and all of them have had excellent QBs throwing to them. Crabtree is only in his 4th year and only his second in a real NFL offensive system.

If you're taken in the top-10, I expect you to dominate at your position.

Crabs ain't dominate son... not even close.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Not arguing the main point, but that's a conclusion based on a fact. Fact would be he made 72 reception.

He got enough separation to catch those 72 balls. Arguing that fact would be to say he did not gain enough separation to make the catch, which would be untrue.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
If you're taken in the top-10, I expect you to dominate at your position.

Crabs ain't dominate son... not even close.

So I guess Alex Smith is a complete bust then? Because he was picked first overall. I guess Carlos Rodgers and Donte Whitner are busts too since it took them several years to become pro bowl level players. I guess Justin Smith was a bust for the bengals because he never put up a 10 sack season as a 43 DE. These were all top ten picks that no one thought were elite players until well into their careers.

Thats why you have illogical expectations. There are many more examples of guys that were picked in the top ten that took 2 to 4 years to reach their peak than guys who dominated right away. Its called steadily ascending, which is what Crabtree is doing

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Not arguing the main point, but that's a conclusion based on a fact. Fact would be he made 72 reception.

He got enough separation to catch those 72 balls. Arguing that fact would be to say he did not gain enough separation to make the catch, which would be untrue.

No, there are other external situation involved for him to get those catches like Ginn clearing out for him to make some of those catches. Your conclusion, however, is a reasonable one. But it's still a conclusion, not just a fact.

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
If you're taken in the top-10, I expect you to dominate at your position.

Crabs ain't dominate son... not even close.

So I guess Alex Smith is a complete bust then? Because he was picked first overall. I guess Carlos Rodgers and Donte Whitner are busts too since it took them several years to become pro bowl level players. I guess Justin Smith was a bust for the bengals because he never put up a 10 sack season as a 43 DE. These were all top ten picks that no one thought were elite players until well into their careers.

Thats why you have illogical expectations. There are many more examples of guys that were picked in the top ten that took 2 to 4 years to reach their peak than guys who dominated right away. Its called steadily ascending, which is what Crabtree is doing

Sure, let's pretend Michael Crabtree is going to become a top-10 receiver in the league this year.

Dude has been a disappointment. That's not illogical.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
No, there are other external situation involved for him to get those catches like Ginn clearing out for him to make some of those catches. Your conclusion, however, is a reasonable one. But it's still a conclusion, not just a fact.

If he didn't get enough separation he wouldn't have been in position to catch the ball. Give the guy some damn credit already

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
I agree with this.

I don't buy the "Alex Smith is his QB" reason as well. The capabilities of the QB is a big factor in WR play for sure, but at some point the WR's own talent has to take over. I've seen countless other WRs succeed with below-par QBs: Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson to name a few. All three had times when they had inferior QB play and still produced on the field. Did you forget the expectations? We all thought that given his college production he would be a sure-fire Probowler and on the level of those aforementioned WRs.

I answered "No" on the poll, I don't think he is a bust. He's produced decently. I do think that he is a major disappointment.

To name a few? You just named 3 of the best wide receivers of their era and all of them have had excellent QBs throwing to them. Crabtree is only in his 4th year and only his second in a real NFL offensive system.

Yes and the expectation for Crabtree was to be one of those guys. Maybe it wasn't your expectation, but it was the expectation for the overwhelming majority of this fanbase. Crabtree was touted as a top five pick, very similar to the Johnson's and Fitzgerald. That was the level of hype that came with Crabtree. We were seen as lucky to draft him because he fell purely because of his foot injury and because he did not run the 40.

Fitzgerald was good before Warner. C. Johnson was good before Stafford. A. Johnson was good before Schaub. Great WRs can make plays on marginal teams with poor QB play.

As susweel previously said, I knew all I needed to know about Crabtree after he decided to hold out in his rookie year 5 weeks into the regular season. Regardless, I still have hope for Crabtree. I think he'll be fine this year and he'll build on last season. I just don't think he'll ever live up to the gamechanger, playmaker, probowl destined hype that he came with.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Sure, let's pretend Michael Crabtree is going to become a top-10 receiver in the league this year.

Dude has been a disappointment. That's not illogical.

I just named 4 guys on our own team that were picked in the top ten and they all took longer than 4 years to become the players they were supposed to be when they were drafted. Those 4 guys are all cornerstones of our team. Its not illogical to think that since Crabtree has improved each and every year that he has not yet hit his peak. You don't like the guy, I get it. That doesn't mean he is incapable of improving.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Yes and the expectation for Crabtree was to be one of those guys. Maybe it wasn't your expectation, but it was the expectation for the overwhelming majority of this fanbase. Crabtree was touted as a top five pick, very similar to the Johnson's and Fitzgerald. That was the level of hype that came with Crabtree. We were seen as lucky to draft him because he fell purely because of his foot injury and because he did not run the 40.

Fitzgerald was good before Warner. C. Johnson was good before Stafford. A. Johnson was good before Schaub. Great WRs can make plays on marginal teams with poor QB play.

As susweel previously said, I knew all I needed to know about Crabtree after he decided to hold out in his rookie year 5 weeks into the regular season. Regardless, I still have hope for Crabtree. I think he'll be fine this year and he'll build on last season. I just don't think he'll ever live up to the gamechanger, playmaker, probowl destined hype that he came with.

Well thats your own dumb fault if you expected a guy to become Larry Fitzgerald just because he was a good college player. Did you expect Alex Smith to become Peyton Manning because he was picked first overall? If the clueless media had told you his game "resembled" Manning's coming out of college then you probably would have had that ridiculously unfair expectation. Football players are individuals and they all develop at their own pace. He's still a solid, ascending player. The holdout comment has nothing to do with anything that will happen on the field in 2012 so Im not even going to touch it.