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How good is Ahmad Brooks?

If the Niners can draft a guy who can bring a pass rush ability at even half of Aldon's sacks and pressures, then he can replace Brooks on most if not all passing downs. No insult to Brooks.
  • Disp
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Here is Aldon, game by game. I can't remember when his injury happened, but he fell off a cliff after Miami. He was still getting hits and hurries (QB Ht/QB Hu), but couldn't finish them off for the sacks.

Here's how they figure out the grades: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

[ Edited by Disp on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:49 PM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by Disp:
Oops, you're right. Didn't even notice that the vs. rest of the league is actually just regular season stats. The individual and 49ers only stats include the playoffs.


Thanks. That makes sense.

Season rankings of players on statistics only includes regular season games.

PFF does this for a living and one can pretty much assume that what the post online is basically sound.

I do not understand their grading system very well, but I will all next year to figure that out.

Again, thanks for sharing the tables with us.
Originally posted by Disp:
Here is Aldon, game by game. I can't remember when his injury happened, but he fell off a cliff after Miami. He was still getting hits and hurries (QB Ht/QB Hu), but couldn't finish them off for the sacks.

Here's how they figure out the grades: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/


Disp, does pff count sacks as tackles? Here they don't seem to.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by Disp:
Here is Aldon, game by game. I can't remember when his injury happened, but he fell off a cliff after Miami. He was still getting hits and hurries (QB Ht/QB Hu), but couldn't finish them off for the sacks.

Here's how they figure out the grades: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/


Disp, does pff count sacks as tackles? Here they don't seem to.

Good question. Aldon is a beast. Also on brooks, those other stats looks like he had less offsides calls this year. I would say i noticed that he seemed to not jump early like in years past. But dudes not overpaid. Only way he would be is if he actually reached the full deal of his contract which is very unlikely he will. Dudes solid at everything he does I would say his only weakness was jumping offsides and seems to have cleaned that up. We have the best Lb core in the nfl no doubt, all four of these guys are very talented and most teams would envy having just one of them, and we have 4 guys who can do it all, I enjoy watching these guys week after week. Also my cowboys friend loves are Lb's he said he would take all four of them over what dallas has and that's big because his favorite player is Dware.
[ Edited by TheGoldDiggerrrr on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:02 PM ]
I think the big wheel in Dallas was Spencer this year. He would help out here in SF too.

For a sack artist like Aldon, a high percentage of his tackles could be sacks. So how a statistician tracks sacks and tackles will for sure affect the statistical representation of the players performance.

I read the grading link at pff.

Thanks!

But it didn't give me a definition of the categories in the table. (i.e. what's a "Stop"?) Is a sack a stop?

Anyway, I think pff is a great resource. I'll be looking at that site regularly.

For anyone who's keeping score:

Ahmad Brooks: 17 OP: 1
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Apr 11, 2013 at 3:54 PM ]
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
For anyone who's keeping score:

Ahmad Brooks: 17 OP: 1

LMAO!!! Kid's come a LONG ways...as much as Vernon on the maturity (and commitment) scale.
  • Disp
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Here is the link to what exactly a stop is from an article in October: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/18/snapshot-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/. From what I can gather it's basically limiting the back to 3-ish yards or less, stopping them from getting a 1st down in a short yardage situation.

The statistic we came up with is called Run Stop Percentage. This Signature Stat tells us all the important things that basic tackle numbers don't, looking at where a tackle happened and whether it represented a win for the defense in terms of yardage.

Bowman has 71, Willis had 65, Aldon 50, JSmith/Brooks 44. Basically Brooks is very valuable for our run defense.
[ Edited by Disp on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:12 PM ]
Didn't read the entire thread....but in case this was posted already, my apologies:

Ahmad Brooks might be our best pass rusher outside of Aldon. The hit he put on The Mattural in the NFCC might have won us the game.
Originally posted by Disp:
Here is Aldon, game by game. I can't remember when his injury happened, but he fell off a cliff after Miami. He was still getting hits and hurries (QB Ht/QB Hu), but couldn't finish them off for the sacks.

Here's how they figure out the grades: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/


I think part of his falling off after the miami game was justins injury as well as his own. Without justin at 100% the offenses were able to focus more on doubling up on aldon which would still allow him to get to a qb for hurries and hits but not every player can have justins strength and sack a qb with two men hanging from his body. At least thats the logical explenation in my head.
Originally posted by elguapo:
He is saying for the cap hit not so much as a player personally. He is the worst out of the lbs but is one of the better olbs in the league! If he takes a pay cut down to 4-5 mil a year than that is worth his production bigtime

Exactly and thank you.
Originally posted by Evilgenius:
He's outstanding in run defense and gets decent pressure too. He also covers decently,
He is a good all around player, jack of all trades, good at everything, just not great. We need a 2nd pass rusher opposite of Aldon Smith, maybe someone rotational for Brooks on passing downs to develop, or have on standby in case of injury

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Actually, this has turned into a pretty good Ahmad Brooks appreciation thread, so keep it rolling.

Any info on the numbers would be appreciated.

I guess the table info was compiled at two different times. I think that's why effectiveness ratings differ.

Aldon is ranked high because of outrageous productivity rushing the passer. His run D doesn't contribute so much.

It sure has! Aldon has been pretty weak in his run defense, and teams typically run his way. Part of why Brooks is so valuable is because he is strong against the run so teams opt to run towards Aldon's side more. Hopefully Aldon's run defense will improve, so we can afford to have a better pass rusher on the other side, without compromising our overall run defense.

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Psinex:

Obviously, it's not all about the sacks. If you want to poke holes in the 49ers defense, you should look at Aldon Smith without Parys Haralson keeping him fresh and the secondary, where our DB's got shredded all throughout the playoffs. Aldon disappeared for the last 6 games because he was exhausted and Justin Smith was not at 100%. He either got no push or he got pushed up past the pocket. Had he got to Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan with any kind of regularity, it would have changed the complexion of both games. Both were far too comfortable in the pocket, delivering long strikes.

Aldon was more than exhausted. He was injured, and seriously enough to require surgery.

But, you are right about Parys Haralson. Having him on the field would have helped.
That would have given us one solid back up to rotate in for Ahmad and Aldon.


Originally posted by NCommand:
There is a HUGE difference between a SAM (Brooks) position and WILL (Aldon) in a 3-4 defense and how they are used and their individual responsibilities. Brooks is probably the second best SAM 3-4 OLB in the game (maybe 1st now). If you want both of your LBers to have 10 sacks every year (very rare) we'd need a different DC and scheme...if you want Brooks to have 10 sacks, simply move him to the WILL and rush him from there. But hands down, he is the most complete LB we have and most versatile, reliable and conditioned. The dude plays 93% of the snaps and was the only front 7 guy to show up at the end of the season and all through the playoffs. Period.

Even Aldon has a long ways to go before he is a "complete OLB."

Brooks is the best at setting the edge, brings consistent pressure, his hits/sacks cause pain, he covers the TE and drops well out in coverage, is constantly double-teams (if you watch the games), is the only LB or DE who knocks down passes, rarely misses a tackle, racks up TFL (stats on NFL.com are WAY off on this category BTW) which are like sacks, is absolutely clutch, can play and DOES play all LB positions at various times and can play DE and even played DT a couple times as well, etc.

The dude couldn't be better at his craft. He is probably the most complete SAM there is (even among 4-3 defenses).

Your issue is with Fangio, the scheme, how he uses him, etc. And BTW, he doesn't play behind Justin Smith on the WEAK side (the non-TE side - the pass rush side). He diagnoses plays faster than Willis (IMHO) at this junction as well and that is saying something. And don't forget the 7 or 8 would-be sacks he would have had save for penalties that wiped them out and countless 1 yard gainers (tackles the QB from behind). The dude could be paid more...the FO was brilliant in signing him first and for what they signed him for.

As to your backdoor point, yes, we should ALWAYS be looking for the "next man up." Always.

My main issue is that once Aldon and Justin Smith were hurt, we had no pass rush. Brooks is a good all around player, and an excellent compliment to Aldon Smith on the other side while Aldon develops into more of an all around linebacker, if he ever does. My original point, was was pointing out that in the following season, Brook's contract was due to escalate to 7.5 mil (although now I know that not the case due to deescalating contract based on the lack of production in the pass rushing department that I discussed) and that we need to take this year to work on his eventual replacement. My big concern was resigning Kaepernick, Aldon Smith, and Crabtree to long term deals. Those guys will probably deserve contracts of 18 mil a year for Kaepernick, if Crabtree considers himself a top wide out, he could be seeking around 15 mil per year since Calvin Johnson is getting 18, and Mario WIlliams is currently getting 16 mil per year, so Aldon could command that much.

Originally posted by lamontb:
He's a solid player but he's a tad bit overpaid. I think you might see those numbers come down a bit But there is no reason to be discussing replacing him.


Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
If the Niners can draft a guy who can bring a pass rush ability at even half of Aldon's sacks and pressures, then he can replace Brooks on most if not all passing downs. No insult to Brooks.

Exactly! More competition at key positions is always a good thing. He could use someone to push him, or compliment him
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by Disp:
Here is Aldon, game by game. I can't remember when his injury happened, but he fell off a cliff after Miami. He was still getting hits and hurries (QB Ht/QB Hu), but couldn't finish them off for the sacks.

Here's how they figure out the grades: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/


I think part of his falling off after the miami game was justins injury as well as his own. Without justin at 100% the offenses were able to focus more on doubling up on aldon which would still allow him to get to a qb for hurries and hits but not every player can have justins strength and sack a qb with two men hanging from his body. At least thats the logical explenation in my head.
I agree with your assessment. This is why we need another person to apply pressure and command double teams, so teams don't just have to worry about the Smith's stuntin.
  • Disp
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Aldon gets a bad rap for his run defense, but he's actually pretty solid at it. Getting Sopoaga out of the lineup should help both the pass rush and run defense too. Hopefully Dorsey/Ian WIlliams can do some good work in there.
[ Edited by Disp on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:43 PM ]
Originally posted by NTeply49:
My main issue is that once Aldon and Justin Smith were hurt, we had no pass rush. Brooks is a good all around player, and an excellent compliment to Aldon Smith on the other side while Aldon develops into more of an all around linebacker, if he ever does. My original point, was was pointing out that in the following season, Brook's contract was due to escalate to 7.5 mil (although now I know that not the case due to deescalating contract based on the lack of production in the pass rushing department that I discussed) and that we need to take this year to work on his eventual replacement.

Gotcha. But Brooks WAS the only pass rush we had at the end of the season and in the playoffs. He may have been our only playmaker as well on defense now that I think about it. Glad you understand the contact better...but his sack production for a SAM 3-4 OLB is tops in the NFL so expecting him to get 10+ isn't realistic for ANY SAM LB. The list of OLB's who are ahead of him in sacks are all WILL OLB's or SAM's who play from both positions in a more disguised blitzing scheme (ala Matthews in Green Bay). Fangio plays more straight up and vanilla. But when he does move Brooks to DT (inside sacks), DE (pressures), MIKE (pick 6) and WILL (sacks and pressures) on top of his SAM production, the dude can do it all...and you make the best point re: needing a rotation. Aldon seems most effective when rested. Brooks has NEVER been rested d/t his diverse skill set and therefore, Fangio wants him on the field at all times. If we can find another OLB who can spell him and us not drop off in production, Brooks could be even more effective (ala Aldon).
brooks is never gonna see that money lol

Originally posted by NCommand:
...Brooks ... may have been our only playmaker as well on defense now that I think about it.

No. Bowman and Brown showed up too.
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