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How good is Ahmad Brooks?

Originally posted by buck:
I did not notice the difference, point it out to me. What post are you referring to?
But, the team numbers are often different from the league numbers; usually in favor of the player.
The league numbers are the "official" numbers.

Edit: I checked the 49ers web site and the NFL website

66,50,16,19.5

http://www.49ers.com/team/statistics.html

66, 50, 16, 19.5

http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/statistics?season=2012&team=SF&seasonType=REG

They look the same to me. Help, where did you see different stats.

Are you are referring to the numbers in post #47, and that I copied in a later post?

If you are those numbers are not stats from the 49ers or the NFL.
Those numbers are the ranking given to players in different categories by Pro Football Focus.

What post, exactly. I put up an incredulous post early on and its gone. Oh well.

In regards to the numbers in the tables in post 47, yes the numbers seem different. Why? ahmad has one "overall" number that says 9.8, another that says 10.9. Why is that? I understand he is compared against different individuals, but the numbers should be the same.....?.....

Forget the stats, Brooks came up with several big big plays during the year that were game changers when we needed them. That's what I noticed. Can you have enough of that? I don't think so.
..oh and can someone put up an explanation of the meaning of the numbers the red cell color the green cell color and the definition of the categories? Thanks!

I really like that they track the snaps.
Originally posted by NTeply49:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
LMFAO

Yeah next we can work on canning Alex Boone also...... Believe it or not Ahmad Brooks was truly the unsung hero for this team many times this last season and is the perfect compliment to play opposite of Aldon Smith...

Price versus production is what I was trying to point out. Not specifically this year, but next year as his contract grows because it's back loaded, we need to start finding a replacement and I think we can find someone that is younger, better, and cheaper. Brooks did have streaks of plays that he would play lights out, but for every one of those there was a bonehead off sides, and bottom line is he is not getting to the quarter back at the most 2nd productive sack position. We're counting on him and Aldon Smith to supply the real pressure in our defense, unless we replace Ray McDonald.

Originally posted by NTeply49:
Originally posted by Doc9er:
To the original poster,

I understand much of what you are trying to say here, but it bums me out that you are so down on Ahmad Brooks. Looking at a few limited statistics does not give you a full appreciation of that player's value. Although buck posted some rather enlightening numbers, I would like to take it one step further...

In addition to the production you are getting from Brooks in terms of pass rushing (13.5 sacks in the past two years), you are also getting several other KEY components:
1) Healthy - the man has a pretty clean slate of health these past few years and that is crucial when it comes to teams who are contending for Super Bowls each year
2) Reliable - each week, each game, you are getting the same guy. Very rarely does he have weeks where he plays poorly and brings the entire defense down. That consistency is greatly appreciated by the coaching staff
3) Versatile - Although I am unable to provide an exact snap count, I'm fairly confident that Brooks played > 90% of our defensive snaps. That includes playing 1st and 2nd down as well as 3rd down packages. It doesn't matter what type of defense we are in, Brooks can fit in it. Another big time plus

When you take those components into account in addition to his modest pass rushing totals, you get a better appreciation for who he is as a player. Additionally, he was voted second team All-Pro which would place him in the top 4 OLBs in the league.

When a team asks a player to take a pay cut, that team is basically saying that they are being paid more than standard market value and the player is unlikely to make that much money out on the street. If the player thinks he is worth more than the team is offering, he refuses and the team cuts him. That would be a disaster for us! Over the next several years, Brooks will be making $5-7 annually (that's not including DE-escalators that will REDUCE the number if high sack totals are not reached). That equates to about 4-5% of our TOTAL salary cap spending.

Would you be willing to spend 5% of your yearly salary cap for a player that is one of the top 4 at his position that brings you both the production and attributes mentioned above?

PS - sorry for the lengthy post. Call me a big time Brooks fan I guess

Thank you for your post and welcome to the forums. I agree with you that he is a solid starter on our defense that has come up clutch for us in a few big games. He does fill many roles on our team, and I DO NOT think he is entirely replaceable this year, but we should consider it while we still have him as a safety net and roll the dice in the draft on someone. What I wanted to point out, is that we need to be prepared with a quality young stud waiting on the wings, who could spell Brooks maybe on passing downs. Truth is that our defense played far too many snaps last year, and it was remarkably healthy. I've never seen so many players play such a high snap % without many significant injuries. I don't think we will be so fortunate, and as we saw, when key members of our pass rush get dinged it really goes flat. I didn't write this post to attack Brooks as much as the position itself. I just feel that people are so concerned with Justin Smith and how his injury impacted our pass rush, that instead of trying to find a guy to fill his shoes or in addition too, we should add a better pass rusher opposite of Aldon Smith that command as much attention as him with double teams to give QBs nowhere to run.

It is apparent the board is near majority on deeming legally insane, and I'm sorry if my opinion bothers you and I didn't put the 1000th post up on the same s**t you read every day. I thought I had an idea that hadn't been addressed, and put it out there. Thank you everyone for letting me know how you really feel. lol


Obviously, it's not all about the sacks. If you want to poke holes in the 49ers defense, you should look at Aldon Smith without Parys Haralson keeping him fresh and the secondary, where our DB's got shredded all throughout the playoffs. Aldon disappeared for the last 6 games because he was exhausted and Justin Smith was not at 100%. He either got no push or he got pushed up past the pocket. Had he got to Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan with any kind of regularity, it would have changed the complexion of both games. Both were far too comfortable in the pocket, delivering long strikes.
  • buck
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Where is my post on this thread? Why is it gone? I called this s*t out 50 posts ago. Get serious OP. Talk about salary. But don't abuse a player's performance just to smack down money. Lock er up.

BTW buck, regarding stats, why are league numbers so different from team numbers?

Did you notice Aldon's run numbers?

Overall, Aldon's numbers seemed pretty good. In one table, he had one negative ranking (Penalties) and his ranking against the run was not high. In the other table, he also had a negative number in pass coverage.

But, overall pretty good. According to Pro Football Focus, he was the highest ranked outside linebacker on the team and third highest ranked outside linebacker in the league.
Originally posted by buck:
I did not notice the difference, point it out to me. What post are you referring to?
But, the team numbers are often different from the league numbers; usually in favor of the player.
The league numbers are the "official" numbers.

Edit: I checked the 49ers web site and the NFL website

66,50,16,19.5

http://www.49ers.com/team/statistics.html

66, 50, 16, 19.5

http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/statistics?season=2012&team=SF&seasonType=REG

They look the same to me. Help, where did you see different stats.

Are you are referring to the numbers in post #47, and that I copied in a later post?

If you are those numbers are not stats from the 49ers or the NFL.
Those numbers are the ranking given to players in different categories by Pro Football Focus.

I assume that you now understand that the tables posted by Disp do not contain stats from either the team or the league.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
What post, exactly. I put up an incredulous post early on and its gone. Oh well.

In regards to the numbers in the tables in post 47, yes the numbers seem different. Why? ahmad has one "overall" number that says 9.8, another that says 10.9. Why is that? I understand he is compared against different individuals, but the numbers should be the same.....?.....

Forget the stats, Brooks came up with several big big plays during the year that were game changers when we needed them. That's what I noticed. Can you have enough of that? I don't think so.

You should ask Disp about the numbers. He is the one who got them.

But, look at the tables closely.

Since you asked me specifically about Aldon, look at his numbers.

The first table listed the number of snaps by total (1223), run defense (463), pass rush (649), and pass coverage (111).

The second table only has total snaps (1025).

The total number of snaps is not the same.
if the two tables cover different periods of the times the total number of snaps would be, and should be, different.
There would also be other differences in the numbers or stats in the tables.

But, that is only my logic reasoning speaking and my logic has been flawed before.

Disp will know the answer.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:34 AM ]
Originally posted by NTeply49:
We need to start working on replacing this guy ASAP. I think this is something a lot of people are overlooking. He is the biggest weakness on our team outside of free safety, and when he needed to pick up the pass rushing slack in the playoffs when both Smiths were playing with injuries, he didn't. As a matter a fact, he has never been much of a pass rushing presence totaling only 26.5 sacks throughout his whole career. At 29 years old, he has already peaked, with his best season being in 2011 when he had 7 sacks and 2012 he had 6.5. In 2014, his cap hit will be up to 7.5 million and in 2015 it will be up to 8.5 million. With Kaepernick and Crabtree extensions being of paramount importance while surrounding them with an excellent supporting cast, Ahmad Brooks needs to restructure and take a massive pay cut or get go play somewhere else. Cant can't afford to overpay for his lack of production. We need to find a better pass rusher to pair opposite of Aldon Smith, and by generating more pressure we can help negate the loss of Goldson on our secondary and get more turn overs.

Before you post, please realize I am trying to point out the huge cap figure for the following 2 seasons versus his production. This is an area that will be a need next season with our young stars about to get their first big paydays, and if you haven't noticed QBs are getting almost 20 million a year and Crabtree will want top 5 receiver money.

There is not one soul in the 49er organization that agrees with one word you wrote.
Actually, this has turned into a pretty good Ahmad Brooks appreciation thread, so keep it rolling.

Any info on the numbers would be appreciated.

I guess the table info was compiled at two different times. I think that's why effectiveness ratings differ.

Aldon is ranked high because of outrageous productivity rushing the passer. His run D doesn't contribute so much.
Originally posted by Psinex:

It's not fair to Down Syndrome people to compare them to the logic of the OP.
Umm...he's part of the best front 7 in the NFL! I think we all know the answer here...









...wait for it...









REPLACE HIM NOW!!
[ Edited by mcbaes72 on Apr 11, 2013 at 8:16 AM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Actually, this has turned into a pretty good Ahmad Brooks appreciation thread, so keep it rolling.

Any info on the numbers would be appreciated.

I guess the table info was compiled at two different times. I think that's why effectiveness ratings differ.

Aldon is ranked high because of outrageous productivity rushing the passer. His run D doesn't contribute so much.

Your welcome. Glad, I could help clear up your confusion about the differences in the two tables.

Aldon's run defense is decent. His pass coverage skills do need some work, though.

BTW, did you notice James Harrison's numbers in the second table?
  • buck
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Originally posted by Psinex:

Obviously, it's not all about the sacks. If you want to poke holes in the 49ers defense, you should look at Aldon Smith without Parys Haralson keeping him fresh and the secondary, where our DB's got shredded all throughout the playoffs. Aldon disappeared for the last 6 games because he was exhausted and Justin Smith was not at 100%. He either got no push or he got pushed up past the pocket. Had he got to Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan with any kind of regularity, it would have changed the complexion of both games. Both were far too comfortable in the pocket, delivering long strikes.

Aldon was more than exhausted. He was injured, and seriously enough to require surgery.

But, you are right about Parys Haralson. Having him on the field would have helped.
That would have given us one solid back up to rotate in for Ahmad and Aldon.
Originally posted by buck:
Your welcome. Glad, I could help clear up your confusion about the differences in the two tables.

Aldon's run defense is decent. His pass coverage skills do need some work, though.

BTW, did you notice James Harrison's numbers in the second table?

Sure. The data was presented inconsistently if it was taken from 2 different times without saying so. Noticing inconsistency is not "confusion".

Anyway, if what you are saying is true I would like to see the FINAL numbers for 2012 for Aldon, Ahmad. The "vs league" table looks like it is about 200 snaps short of the "9er team table."

Aldon was hurt the last 200 snaps so i think the productivity everywhere will go down...?... more selective information....?.... Let's put the final numbers out there for everyone to see.

ALTHOUGH....it's still important to gauge his effectiveness before the injuries started hitting....that's important to know too......

Looks like Anthony Spencer got the brass ring this year at OLB.
  • buck
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
..oh and can someone put up an explanation of the meaning of the numbers the red cell color the green cell color and the definition of the categories? Thanks!

I really like that they track the snaps.

If I remember correctly. Green is above average. White is average. Red is below average.


Here is a link to PFF.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/
  • buck
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Sure. The data was presented inconsistently if it was taken from 2 different times without saying so. Noticing inconsistency is not "confusion".

Anyway, if what you are saying is true I would like to see the FINAL numbers for 2012 for Aldon, Ahmad. The "vs league" table looks like it is about 200 snaps short of the "9er team table."

Aldon was hurt the last 200 snaps so i think the productivity everywhere will go down...?... more selective information....?.... Let's put the final numbers out there for everyone to see.

ALTHOUGH....it's still important to gauge his effectiveness before the injuries started hitting....that's important to know too......

Looks like Anthony Spencer got the brass ring this year at OLB.

Sorry, it seemed that you were confused by the tables.

In one of your posts you did not seem to understand that the tables were not based on NFL stats or team stats.

In another post, you did not seem to notice that tables were from different time frames.

I found the tables interesting and somewhat useful. I thought it nice that Disp posted them.

If you have a problem with them or their presentation talk to him.

Maybe, he would kind enough to post the final numbers.
  • cciowa
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i could understand if this was a post about manny lawson but there is zero reason for this type of post to appear, based upon how we got him and how he has performed. if the team was garbage and everyone deserved to have their starting job in question i could see it but this is just,, well i just do not know