The Aldon Smith thread

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
The commish already said that the five weeks Aldon took off to improve will count as time served on any suspension related to his DUI charge! I doubt a first time suspension would exceed four games anyway. A lot of this criminal hype and lengthy suspension is media driven

I believe that the comish said the his time in rehab will be taken into consideration, which is somewhat vague.

I do not know what will happen, but we will eventually find out.

so how long will he consider it, 3 yrs 5 yrs ?

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Yes he was rather pointed too in stating that suspensions were only meant to correct action and that a self imposed rehab and five games missed does just that. Now this is before LAX!

Did the comish actually say that "five games missed does just that" or is that your interpretation.

I believe it could be the case, but I do not think the commissioner was nearly as definitive as you make it sound.

And yes, what he had to say was before LAX. I am not sure what that will mean.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Sticking to the facts of what actually occurred; not condemning Aldon for something that did not really occur (sometimes called prejudging, or prejudice), and recognizing that he has a problem with alcohol and needs help--these are not mutually exclusive.

I don't know if he is an "idiot" per se, but I don't see anyone excusing his behavior.

However, there are some in the media, and some on this board, who appear to rejoice at his problems, completely condemn him for what MIGHT be considered less than felony behavior, and don't appear to care a bit about any potential recovery for him. BrianGO was challenging their thought processes, not excusing Aldon's actions.

What evidence do you rely on for your statement that the organization is "glossing over" his problems, as opposed to supporting his efforts to address them and rehabilitate? Maybe I missed that.

You are good at not actually responding to someone's arguments.

I believe it is a fact that he operated a motor vehicle while heavily intoxicated. I also believe it is a fact that he fired a weapon into the air to break up a party. You will notice that I did not address his more recent issues because, as you point out, we don't know all the facts.

You have not convinced me, nor anyone with any common sense, how Aldon operating a vehicle on a public roadway while drunk to the point of passing out is in any way OK, or how it's being taken out of context as part of some witch hunt.

I don't wish ill on him, I want him to get past these issues and become a great leader and role model, as well as a great football player. Not learning a tough lesson from his bad choices will not help h get there.

Read the article on this by Matt Barrows if you want another take on it.

And lastly, show me where the team is being tough on him and I'll retract my glossing over comment. Vague platitudes about being disappointed obviously aren't cutting it with this kid.

Trogdor: "I think your moral compass needs an adjustment."

Please give it a rest. You're the one sitting in judgment of other peoples' "moral compass." Calm down.

But if you for one second think that a young NFL athlete who has more sacks than any NFL player has ever had after two seasons is going to be treated like "the common man" here, you need to brush up on something I like to call "reality."

Originally posted by trogdor:

You are good at not actually responding to someone's arguments.

I believe it is a fact that he operated a motor vehicle while heavily intoxicated. I also believe it is a fact that he fired a weapon into the air to break up a party. You will notice that I did not address his more recent issues because, as you point out, we don't know all the facts.

You have not convinced me, nor anyone with any common sense, how Aldon operating a vehicle on a public roadway while drunk to the point of passing out is in any way OK, or how it's being taken out of context as part of some witch hunt.

I don't wish ill on him, I want him to get past these issues and become a great leader and role model, as well as a great football player. Not learning a tough lesson from his bad choices will not help h get there.

Read the article on this by Matt Barrows if you want another take on it.

And lastly, show me where the team is being tough on him and I'll retract my glossing over comment. Vague platitudes about being disappointed obviously aren't cutting it with this kid.

Its a fact, based on the news reports I read, that he operated a motor vehicle while under the influence. No report of how high his blood alcohol content was, or anything like that.

Likewise, I do not recall any report that he "passed out" and I know for a fact that one doesn't have to be that intoxicated to crash one's vehicle if driving under the influence. (My own parked car was sideswiped one night by such a driver). So your assumption that he was "heavily intoxicated," and "passed out,"--not just under the influence--appear to be overstatements at this point.

I'm not trying to avoid your arguments, I'm just asking to focus on the actual facts about Aldon's problems, and not on anyone's assumptions or overstatements.

BTW, there is nothing illegal about firing a gun into the air in California, at least there is no California Penal Code section that forbids it.

Is it reasonable to do so late at night in the face of a large, unruly, antagonist group of people who refuse to leave your property, threaten damage to your home, threaten bodily injury to you, and you're awaiting the arrival of law enforcement? In such circumstances, some of us might do the same thing.

You claim the Niners are "glossing over" Aldon's problems. I just want to know if I missed something that made you say that. If its just an opinion you have, that's no problem; I don't question your right to such an opinion. I was just looking to be better educated about it, if you had something that specifically caused you to form that opinion.

And I understand that you're not wishing ill on Aldon, that you're a fan of the team and want to see him rehabilitate his problems and succeed--both in life and on the football field. I join you in that hope.

(After the fact it occurred to me that using the "cheers" smiley might be considered a bit sarcastic--it was not intended as such, and I changed it to a thumbs up instead. lol.)

Originally posted by buck:

Did the comish actually say that "five games missed does just that" or is that your interpretation.

I believe it could be the case, but I do not think the commissioner was nearly as definitive as you make it sound.

And yes, what he had to say was before LAX. I am not sure what that will mean.

His words not mine and this was his answer to a direct question. He left himself wiggle room but the implications were clear

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Its a fact, based on the news reports I read, that he operated a motor vehicle while under the influence. No report of how high his blood alcohol content was, or anything like that.

Likewise, I do not recall any report that he "passed out" and I know for a fact that one doesn't have to be that intoxicated to crash one's vehicle if driving under the influence. (My own parked car was sideswiped one night by such a driver). So your assumption that he was "heavily intoxicated," and "passed out,"--not just under the influence--appear to be overstatements at this point.

I'm not trying to avoid your arguments, I'm just asking to focus on the actual facts about Aldon's problems, and not on anyone's assumptions or overstatements.

BTW, there is nothing illegal about firing a gun into the air in California, at least there is no California Penal Code section that forbids it.

Is it reasonable to do so late at night in the face of a large, unruly, antagonist group of people who refuse to leave your property, threaten damage to your home, threaten bodily injury to you, and you're awaiting the arrival of law enforcement? In such circumstances, some of us might do the same thing.

You claim the Niners are "glossing over" Aldon's problems. I just want to know if I missed something that made you say that. If its just an opinion you have, that's no problem; I don't question your right to such an opinion. I was just looking to be better educated about it, if you had something that specifically caused you to form that opinion.

And I understand that you're not wishing ill on Aldon, that you're a fan of the team and want to see him rehabilitate his problems and succeed--both in life and on the football field. I join you in that hope.

(After the fact it occurred to me that using the "cheers" smiley might be considered a bit sarcastic--it was not intended as such, and I changed it to a thumbs up instead. lol.)

California Penal Code Section 246.3

Legal Research Home > California Laws > Penal Code > California Penal Code Section 246.3

246.3. (a) Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. You can also throw in even areas where shooting is allowed, in most of them you cannot discharge a gun within a 100 yards of a dwelling or roadway. Shooting off his balcony was illegal for so many reasons.

I am not sure I understand the discussion about the DUI.

I will try again.

If Aldon Smith is convicted of DUI, he will be, and should be, punished.

He will be punished by the state.

I have no problem with the state punishing him.

Does anybody on this board think that he should not be punished by the state if he is convicted of DUI.

There is a good chance that he will be suspended by the NFL.

If the NFL decides to suspend Aldon Smith, I have no problem with that.

Does anyone think that it would be wrong for the NFL to suspend him for the DUI?

Is anyone saying that the punishment by the state and the punishment by NFL would not be sufficient.

Should the team also punish him further, if he is punished by the state and the league?

Originally posted by BobS:

California Penal Code Section 246.3 Legal Research Home > California Laws > Penal Code > California Penal Code Section 246.3
246.3. (a) Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. You can also throw in even areas where shooting is allowed, in most of them you cannot discharge a gun within a 100 yards of a dwelling or roadway. Shooting off his balcony was illegal for so many reasons.

People will believe what they want to believe.

Firing a gun into the air in a grossly negligent manner puts life and limb at risk.

Actually discharging a gun, particularly a pistol or rifle, puts life and limb at risk even if the discharge was not grossly negligent.

Aldon Smith was not charged with any crime associated with the discharging a firearm into the air.

I believe that he is being sued in civil court for this alleged act. The standards for conviction in civil court are less than the standards in criminal court.

It will interesting to see what happens with the civil suits that have been filed.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

His words not mine and this was his answer to a direct question. He left himself wiggle room but the implications were clear

Ok. We will see what happens.

I found these quotes and reported statement

Speaking to reporters after a forum for European fans, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said that Smith's treatment will be considered when weighing any discipline.

"Yes, it will be a factor, for sure," Goodell said.

"Certainly, the issue here isn't to discipline players. It's to stop the behavior," Goodell said. "Aldon has voluntarily said, 'I need help.'

"We're obviously there to support him, and the 49ers did a great job getting him into a facility to try to get help. We support that."

About his thoughts of Smith playing in the game, Goodell explained the league was in a difficult situation because of rules with the NFL Players' Association.

"We've made a couple of proposals to our union that we should take quicker action. But they've resisted that," Goodell said. "We have to operate within the context of the collective bargaining agreement and joint drug program. That's something we weren't in position to do."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9880572/rehab-factor-ruling-aldon-smith-san-francisco-49ers

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Its a fact, based on the news reports I read, that he operated a motor vehicle while under the influence. No report of how high his blood alcohol content was, or anything like that.

Likewise, I do not recall any report that he "passed out" and I know for a fact that one doesn't have to be that intoxicated to crash one's vehicle if driving under the influence. (My own parked car was sideswiped one night by such a driver). So your assumption that he was "heavily intoxicated," and "passed out,"--not just under the influence--appear to be overstatements at this point.

I'm not trying to avoid your arguments, I'm just asking to focus on the actual facts about Aldon's problems, and not on anyone's assumptions or overstatements.

BTW, there is nothing illegal about firing a gun into the air in California, at least there is no California Penal Code section that forbids it.

Is it reasonable to do so late at night in the face of a large, unruly, antagonist group of people who refuse to leave your property, threaten damage to your home, threaten bodily injury to you, and you're awaiting the arrival of law enforcement? In such circumstances, some of us might do the same thing.

You claim the Niners are "glossing over" Aldon's problems. I just want to know if I missed something that made you say that. If its just an opinion you have, that's no problem; I don't question your right to such an opinion. I was just looking to be better educated about it, if you had something that specifically caused you to form that opinion.

And I understand that you're not wishing ill on Aldon, that you're a fan of the team and want to see him rehabilitate his problems and succeed--both in life and on the football field. I join you in that hope.

(After the fact it occurred to me that using the "cheers" smiley might be considered a bit sarcastic--it was not intended as such, and I changed it to a thumbs up instead. lol.)

California Penal Code Section 246.3
Legal Research Home > California Laws > Penal Code > California Penal Code Section 246.3

246.3. (a) Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who
willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which
could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public
offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of
Section 1170.
You can also throw in even areas where shooting is allowed, in most of them you cannot discharge a gun within a 100 yards of a dwelling or roadway. Shooting off his balcony was illegal for so many reasons.

The key phrase being "in a grossly negligent manner." That does not, by definition, include simply shooting a gun into the air.

"Gross negligence" has the meaning commonly attributed to it in criminal law, i.e., disregard for human life or indifference to consequences, but criminal liability attaches only if the act also has the potential for causing personal injury or death. (People vs. Alonzo (1993) 13 Cal.App.4th 535, 539.)

So unless there was someone that he knew about up on Aldon's roof at the time, or he shot into the air just barely over the head of someone, Penal Code section 246.3 does not appear to apply.

Again, there is no statute that prohibits simply shooting into the air, especially in an area of relatively scarce population.

Likewise, I know of no penal code statute that requires the 100 yard limitation you mention.

Is it based on some city or county ordinance? Is there such an ordinance in Santa Clara County, or wherever Aldon's residence is located?

Unbelievable. Un-fricking-believable. 471 posts, and STILL...STILL...we have never heard Aldon's side of the airport story ( a wise thing from legal standpoint), and we STILL have no idea what the heck Goodell's intent is. It is incredible we have managed to manufacture 471 posts of just, well, drivel. I know, I don't have to read it, but looking at it from a long way away, it really is overkill.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Unbelievable. Un-fricking-believable. 471 posts, and STILL...STILL...we have never heard Aldon's side of the airport story ( a wise thing from legal standpoint), and we STILL have no idea what the heck Goodell's intent is. It is incredible we have managed to manufacture 471 posts of just, well, drivel. I know, I don't have to read it, but looking at it from a long way away, it really is overkill.

More then likely no one will ever hear his side publicly anyways. More then likely hes been told to remain tight lipped about what happened for he legal reasons. All we will ever hear is the assumptions of the media.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Its a fact, based on the news reports I read, that he operated a motor vehicle while under the influence. No report of how high his blood alcohol content was, or anything like that.

Likewise, I do not recall any report that he "passed out" and I know for a fact that one doesn't have to be that intoxicated to crash one's vehicle if driving under the influence. (My own parked car was sideswiped one night by such a driver). So your assumption that he was "heavily intoxicated," and "passed out,"--not just under the influence--appear to be overstatements at this point.

I'm not trying to avoid your arguments, I'm just asking to focus on the actual facts about Aldon's problems, and not on anyone's assumptions or overstatements.

BTW, there is nothing illegal about firing a gun into the air in California, at least there is no California Penal Code section that forbids it.

Is it reasonable to do so late at night in the face of a large, unruly, antagonist group of people who refuse to leave your property, threaten damage to your home, threaten bodily injury to you, and you're awaiting the arrival of law enforcement? In such circumstances, some of us might do the same thing.

You claim the Niners are "glossing over" Aldon's problems. I just want to know if I missed something that made you say that. If its just an opinion you have, that's no problem; I don't question your right to such an opinion. I was just looking to be better educated about it, if you had something that specifically caused you to form that opinion.

And I understand that you're not wishing ill on Aldon, that you're a fan of the team and want to see him rehabilitate his problems and succeed--both in life and on the football field. I join you in that hope.

(After the fact it occurred to me that using the "cheers" smiley might be considered a bit sarcastic--it was not intended as such, and I changed it to a thumbs up instead. lol.)

California Penal Code Section 246.3
Legal Research Home > California Laws > Penal Code > California Penal Code Section 246.3

246.3. (a) Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who
willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which
could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public
offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of
Section 1170.
You can also throw in even areas where shooting is allowed, in most of them you cannot discharge a gun within a 100 yards of a dwelling or roadway. Shooting off his balcony was illegal for so many reasons.

The key phrase being "in a grossly negligent manner." That does not, by definition, include simply shooting a gun into the air.

"Gross negligence" has the meaning commonly attributed to it in criminal law, i.e., disregard for human life or indifference to consequences, but criminal liability attaches only if the act also has the potential for causing personal injury or death. (People vs. Alonzo (1993) 13 Cal.App.4th 535, 539.)

So unless there was someone that he knew about up on Aldon's roof at the time, or he shot into the air just barely over the head of someone, Penal Code section 246.3 does not appear to apply.

Again, there is no statute that prohibits simply shooting into the air, especially in an area of relatively scarce population.

Likewise, I know of no penal code statute that requires the 100 yard limitation you mention.

Is it based on some city or county ordinance? Is there such an ordinance in Santa Clara County, or wherever Aldon's residence is located?

Maybe you should Google "Guns fired in the air" numerous people have been killed that way along with numerous people incarcerated for shooting in the air. The bullet doesn't come down with the velocity in goes up but still returns to earth with enough velocity to kill. There isn't a penal code statue for the usual 100 yard rule as shooting and hunting regulations pretty much vary from city to city and county to county.

Here is a regulation showing the 100 yard rule:

20. It shall be unlawful to discharge or
shoot any firearm or other weapon in or
along any public road or street or within
100 yards thereof or within 100 yards of
any building occupied or used as a
dwelling or place where the public gath-
ers

That was plucked off a page in my state of Virginia they had a list of regulations 1-100 and then the numbers that applied to each city or county. Most counties don't have #20 here, but that is pro gun state of Virginia, not California. The reason there isn't a blanket no shooting in the air rule is that bird hunting and clay pigeon shooting is legal in many areas usually with bird shot only. Even here if you are firing in the air you better be license to hunt birds with a shotgun or you will get a warning or possibly arrested.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

The key phrase being "in a grossly negligent manner." That does not, by definition, include simply shooting a gun into the air.

"Gross negligence" has the meaning commonly attributed to it in criminal law, i.e., disregard for human life or indifference to consequences, but criminal liability attaches only if the act also has the potential for causing personal injury or death. (People vs. Alonzo (1993) 13 Cal.App.4th 535, 539.)

So unless there was someone that he knew about up on Aldon's roof at the time, or he shot into the air just barely over the head of someone, Penal Code section 246.3 does not appear to apply.

Again, there is no statute that prohibits simply shooting into the air, especially in an area of relatively scarce population.

Likewise, I know of no penal code statute that requires the 100 yard limitation you mention.

Is it based on some city or county ordinance? Is there such an ordinance in Santa Clara County, or wherever Aldon's residence is located?

At some point these arguments have no bearing on Aldon Smith.

I have been around guns most of my life. Unless one is firing at a known target that is in the air, such as a bird, discharging a gun into the air can almost always be considered a stupid thing to do.

In the case of Aldon Smith, the facts are pretty simple.

There have been reports or allegations that Aldon discharged a gun into the air.

He has not been charged with any crime associated with said reports or allegations.

He is being sued in civil court for his actions and those actions include the discharging a gun into the air.

If he fired a gun into the air with the intention of warning people, i.e. with the best of intentions, he made a huge mistake.

This happened at a house party. The odds are that the firing of a weapon at a house party will create panic and result will not be favorable.

Doing so might be understandable, but that does not make it justifiable.

The male kin in my family, and a good share of the women, would have whooped my butt for being stupid again, if I had fired into the air at a house party.

My upbringing would say find the threat and deal with the threat. The air is no threat.

But, the point of the thread is Aldon Smith and he has not been charged with any crime linked to the discharge of a weapon.