The Aldon Smith thread

Originally posted by AmpLee:
A couple issues...

• The Commissioner was quoted as saying that he was about correcting behavior, not punishment
• Aldon took steps to correct his behavior
• The commissioner was quoted as saying that Adons rehab would be taken into consideration
• It was reported after the punishment by Ed Werder that the commissioner did not consider the self-imposed rehab when punishing Aldon
• The breakdown of the suspension was 5 games for personal conduct and 4 games for the Reckless driving and DUI

Essentially, the commissioner said one thing (it's about behavioral correction not punishment) then did another (threw the book at Aldon while ignoring his steps to correct his own behavior). It's not hard to see the issue people have with how this all went down. 9 games is an unprecedented punishment for Aldon's type of crimes especially considering Aldon's steps to improve himself during the season (missing 5 additional games doing so).

The two most likely factors affecting what was previously said and what was ultimately handed down are the LAX incident and that Smith's suspension was decided in a post-Ray Rice world for the NFL. Notwithstanding the fact that no charges were ultimately filed, the LAX incident had to give the NFL pause as to the extent Smith had corrected his behavior and, obviously, the lash back from the Ray Rice suspension made it obvious that suspensions going forward were probably going to be harsher across the board as the NFL tries to repair the reinforced public perception that it is soft on illegal conduct or transgressions by its players.

Most everyone on this board, me included, expected the 5 games Smith missed last year to be in some way a game for game reduction based on Goodell's comments. In retrospect, that may have been too big of a leap to take. He said it would be considered. I have not seen the referenced Ed Werder report and have not seen any of the 49er beat reporters report that to be the case, so, at best that would seem to be speculation. It may very well be that the 5 games missed were taken into consideration and that is why Smith is being allowed to be at the team facility and attend meetings, which my understanding is a player may not do either for violations of the personal conduct policy. Goodell never said how or to what extent the 5 games missed would be considered. He only said that they would be a consideration.

In the days leading up to the suspension, it was widely reported that a 6 to 8 game suspension was expected. I've heard Barrows on KNBR say the 49ers were expecting 6 games. Obviously 9 is a lot and more than was expected but it was also negotiated by the NFLPA on behalf of Smith that Smith accepted and waived his right to appeal. Smith and the NFLPA could have not waived the right to appeal and continued to fight the suspension. The fact they did not do so, should probably tell us something about what Smith was looking at otherwise.

Lets also not forget that if Smith had gotten the message after the first DUI in Florida, he and the 49ers would not be in this situation now. People make mistakes and are entitled to second chances (usually), but if one does not learn from the mistake, there are usually harsher consequences that follow. Smith placed himself at risk by not learning from the first mistake and once you place yourself in the discipline system, you lose control of what the final outcome may be. That's what happened to Smith, the 49ers and their fans.

Originally posted by kem99:
To answer your initial question, no, there is not a valid basis for such a lawsuit.

49er season ticket holders bought season tickets understanding that the team and its players were subject to NFL rules and regulations, including those areas which have been collectively bargained between the NFL and the players. Included as part of the collectively bargained terms of employment for the players was the Commissioner's authority to hand down discipline, including suspensions. Moreover, the 9 game suspension was negotiated between the NFL and the NFLPA and agreed to by Smith, so this was not just a determination by Goodell.

While not phrased as a question, the answer to your last statement is...no, such a lawsuit would not send a message to Goodell other than to confirm that there is a lunatic fringe of 49er fans with too much time and money on their hands.

I agree that there is an understanding that all the teams and their players, and the NFL, are subject to the CBA. That's the point.

Aldon being punished by the State of California for a violation of its gun laws (a total of 12 days and a fine of several thousand dollars) isn't equal to or the same as being punished under the terms of the CBA.

Punishing Aldon by suspending him for 5 games (at the cost of several hundred thousand dollars) for owning guns that, although illegal under California law, are owned in other states by other NFL players, who are not being punished by the NFL for such ownership, appears to be a violation of the CBA, which applies equally to all NFL teams and players.

Moreover, this unfair punishment of Aldon adversely affects the value of every season ticket. I agree there is no basis for such a lawsuit for the DUI violation. That appears to be equally and evenly administered to each and every NFL player across the land.

But the extra five games for owning guns that other NFL players in other states can and do own without being punished is unfair under the terms of the CBA. Not all players are being treated equally by this action.

And the NFLPA was not negotiating on behalf of season ticket holders--who are being adversely affected by Goodell's decision because the value of their season tickets have been diminished--unfairly to the extent the extra 5 games are based on possession of weapons that other NFL players in other states can and do own without repercussions from the NFL.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by AmpLee:
A couple issues...

• The Commissioner was quoted as saying that he was about correcting behavior, not punishment
• Aldon took steps to correct his behavior
• The commissioner was quoted as saying that Adons rehab would be taken into consideration
• It was reported after the punishment by Ed Werder that the commissioner did not consider the self-imposed rehab when punishing Aldon
• The breakdown of the suspension was 5 games for personal conduct and 4 games for the Reckless driving and DUI

Essentially, the commissioner said one thing (it's about behavioral correction not punishment) then did another (threw the book at Aldon while ignoring his steps to correct his own behavior). It's not hard to see the issue people have with how this all went down. 9 games is an unprecedented punishment for Aldon's type of crimes especially considering Aldon's steps to improve himself during the season (missing 5 additional games doing so).

This. Completely.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by kem99:
To answer your initial question, no, there is not a valid basis for such a lawsuit.

49er season ticket holders bought season tickets understanding that the team and its players were subject to NFL rules and regulations, including those areas which have been collectively bargained between the NFL and the players. Included as part of the collectively bargained terms of employment for the players was the Commissioner's authority to hand down discipline, including suspensions. Moreover, the 9 game suspension was negotiated between the NFL and the NFLPA and agreed to by Smith, so this was not just a determination by Goodell.

While not phrased as a question, the answer to your last statement is...no, such a lawsuit would not send a message to Goodell other than to confirm that there is a lunatic fringe of 49er fans with too much time and money on their hands.

I agree that there is an understanding that all the teams and their players, and the NFL, are subject to the CBA. That's the point.

Aldon being punished by the State of California for a violation of its gun laws (a total of 12 days and a fine of several thousand dollars) isn't equal to or the same as being punished under the terms of the CBA.

Punishing Aldon by suspending him for 5 games (at the cost of several hundred thousand dollars) for owning guns that, although illegal under California law, are owned in other states by other NFL players, who are not being punished by the NFL for such ownership, appears to be a violation of the CBA, which applies equally to all NFL teams and players.

Moreover, this unfair punishment of Aldon adversely affects the value of every season ticket. I agree there is no basis for such a lawsuit for the DUI violation. That appears to be equally and evenly administered to each and every NFL player across the land.

But the extra five games for owning guns that other NFL players in other states can and do own without being punished is unfair under the terms of the CBA. Not all players are being treated equally by this action.

And the NFLPA was not negotiating on behalf of season ticket holders--who are being adversely affected by Goodell's decision because the value of their season tickets have been diminished--unfairly to the extent the extra 5 games are based on possession of weapons that other NFL players in other states can and do own without repercussions from the NFL.

Fair question! The NFLPA should be the one on fire about this issue but I haven't heard a peep! Have you?

As to the lawsuit? I doubt it b/c it was already ruled that the NFL was deemed "an entertainment business" which is code for, "the NFL can manipulate the game any way they want. In fact, if we want it to be the WWE, we can enforced it and as ruled, the fans would still show up whether they knew who would win in advance or not...for entertainment value. That's all the ticket is guaranteeing...entertainment."

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fair question! The NFLPA should be the one on fire about this issue but I haven't heard a peep! Have you?

As to the lawsuit? I doubt it b/c it was already ruled that the NFL was deemed "an entertainment business" which is code for, "the NFL can manipulate the game any way they want. In fact, if we want it to be the WWE, we can enforced it and as ruled, the fans would still show up whether they knew who would win in advance or not...for entertainment value. That's all the ticket is guaranteeing...entertainment."

But if the quality of that entertainment is adversely affected by some unfair ruling, wouldn't the fans have a right to recoup what they paid for their tickets?

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
And why would it be frivolous to complain about some unfair action causing a loss of ticket value?

You're really stretching it. I mean, really stretching it.

lol. Thank yew.

You gotta admit, it would make a great law school exam question.

If punishment or the threat of punishment would be of any help, don't you think that there shouldn't be as many reoffenders and murders in states which still enforce the death penalty? It's common knowledge that increasing penalties doesn't prevent or decrease crime (rates), the only thing it does is reduce the amount of speeding tickets.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
I agree that there is an understanding that all the teams and their players, and the NFL, are subject to the CBA. That's the point.

Aldon being punished by the State of California for a violation of its gun laws (a total of 12 days and a fine of several thousand dollars) isn't equal to or the same as being punished under the terms of the CBA.

Punishing Aldon by suspending him for 5 games (at the cost of several hundred thousand dollars) for owning guns that, although illegal under California law, are owned in other states by other NFL players, who are not being punished by the NFL for such ownership, appears to be a violation of the CBA, which applies equally to all NFL teams and players.

Moreover, this unfair punishment of Aldon adversely affects the value of every season ticket. I agree there is no basis for such a lawsuit for the DUI violation. That appears to be equally and evenly administered to each and every NFL player across the land.

But the extra five games for owning guns that other NFL players in other states can and do own without being punished is unfair under the terms of the CBA. Not all players are being treated equally by this action.

And the NFLPA was not negotiating on behalf of season ticket holders--who are being adversely affected by Goodell's decision because the value of their season tickets have been diminished--unfairly to the extent the extra 5 games are based on possession of weapons that other NFL players in other states can and do own without repercussions from the NFL.

It does not matter what the laws of the various states happen to be. Laws are different across all of the states. Some states have stricter gun laws than others (e.g. Plaxico Burress in New York) Some have different standards and punishments for DUI's. Marijuana is legal in a few states and remains a banned substance under the CBA. Players residing or visiting those states are subject to the laws of those states and if they violate them, potentially also subject to NFL discipline. Whether the NFL's punishment is equal to the State of California's punishment is irrelevant and smacks of desperation. There is no CBA violation. If there was, the NFLPA would be all over it.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fair question! The NFLPA should be the one on fire about this issue but I haven't heard a peep! Have you?

As to the lawsuit? I doubt it b/c it was already ruled that the NFL was deemed "an entertainment business" which is code for, "the NFL can manipulate the game any way they want. In fact, if we want it to be the WWE, we can enforced it and as ruled, the fans would still show up whether they knew who would win in advance or not...for entertainment value. That's all the ticket is guaranteeing...entertainment."

But if the quality of that entertainment is adversely affected by some unfair ruling, wouldn't the fans have a right to recoup what they paid for their tickets?

I'm trying to find the article but I believe it stemmed from a fan sueing the NFL for similar values...affected the quality on the field, IIRC. But it's a very valid point and one you'd think, at bare minimum, the NFLPA would be all over.

Here's a good objective article on the NFL "fix." http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

EDIT: Here it is...in this very link I provided you:

In 2007 a Jets season ticket holder sued the NFL for $185 million and the case reached the US Supreme Court. The court documents are available online at http://thefixisin.net/resources/prec...al+opinion.pdf. The Jets fan argued that, all Jets fans are entitled to refunds because they paid for a ticket to a legitimate sporting event. Had he been aware that the games were not real then we would not have gone.The NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored." More, Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm trying to find the article but I believe it stemmed from a fan sueing the NFL for similar values...affected the quality on the field, IIRC. But it's a very valid point and one you'd think, at bare minimum, the NFLPA would be all over.

Here's a good objective article on the NFL "fix." http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

EDIT: Here it is...in this very link I provided you:

In 2007 a Jets season ticket holder sued the NFL for $185 million and the case reached the US Supreme Court. The court documents are available online at http://thefixisin.net/resources/prec...al+opinion.pdf. The Jets fan argued that, all Jets fans are entitled to refunds because they paid for a ticket to a legitimate sporting event. Had he been aware that the games were not real then we would not have gone.The NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored." More, Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

Thanks, NC. Interesting read.

Sad to think that the NFL is on the same level as WWE, but then again, that suspicion has arisen previously and its sometimes difficult to ignore.

Its worrisome, then, to hear so many talking heads, on NFLN and elsewhere, saying that the Niners are in big trouble this year, aren't going to make the playoffs, etc. Did they all get the same memo?

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Thanks, NC. Interesting read.

Sad to think that the NFL is on the same level as WWE, but then again, that suspicion has arisen previously and its sometimes difficult to ignore.

Its worrisome, then, to hear so many talking heads, on NFLN and elsewhere, saying that the Niners are in big trouble this year, aren't going to make the playoffs, etc. Did they all get the same memo?

Crazy to think about...never mind that fixed games are founded all across the world from Cycling to Olympics to International Soccer matches to...well, you name it. Only in America can we actually be naive enough to think that can't happen here esp. when you dive into the semantics like this AND know how closely this sport if tied to Vegas. As Niner fans, we can add about 3 more chapters to this report. Haha.

It sure seems like the national media is closely tied together in their reports and manipulated like how local newscasts can be manipulated by the FBI (for various reasons). "They're watching you, man...they're even in your TV!" LMAO!!!!!

PS: The good news is that we ARE under the radar. Two days ago, they had a report of who would win the NFC. The teams? Hawks, Packers, Eagles or Saints? Interesting eh? The key is to win and win big and do NOT put the game in the officials hands!

Originally posted by BobS:
How can someone say that with a straight face is beyond me. Seattle has next to no fan following outside the Pacific Northwest, they don't have a storied history, and they don't have high profile veteran players that are fan favorites. If the league was going to hand pick an NFC team for ratings and revenue generation
Seattle would have been one of the least preferred. On the other hand the 49ers would get preferred status, yet all you biased blind homers think the league is out to get the 49ers.

lol this. I remember Atlanta fans saying something similar when we went to the Superbowl. They accused NFL of matching up the two brothers to coach against each other in the big game.

Aldon got what was coming to him. It was barely excessive and when you continue to act like a fool - you're not going to get the benefit of doubt.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by BobS:
How can someone say that with a straight face is beyond me. Seattle has next to no fan following outside the Pacific Northwest, they don't have a storied history, and they don't have high profile veteran players that are fan favorites. If the league was going to hand pick an NFC team for ratings and revenue generation
Seattle would have been one of the least preferred. On the other hand the 49ers would get preferred status, yet all you biased blind homers think the league is out to get the 49ers.

lol this. I remember Atlanta fans saying something similar when we went to the Superbowl. They accused NFL of matching up the two brothers to coach against each other in the big game.

Aldon got what was coming to him. It was barely excessive and when you continue to act like a fool - you're not going to get the benefit of doubt.

I agree with both of you. I think "outcomes are fixed" stuff is tinfoil hat material.

I'll say this though: believe in fixed outcomes all you want. But if think they exist, then you sure as hell better acknowledge that it's possible that we're the beneficiary of the outcomes. (Funny how complaints about the game being fixed only surface when we lose, huh?) Perhaps the 49ers entire 80's/90's dynasty was all a mirage....

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by BobS:
How can someone say that with a straight face is beyond me. Seattle has next to no fan following outside the Pacific Northwest, they don't have a storied history, and they don't have high profile veteran players that are fan favorites. If the league was going to hand pick an NFC team for ratings and revenue generation
Seattle would have been one of the least preferred. On the other hand the 49ers would get preferred status, yet all you biased blind homers think the league is out to get the 49ers.

lol this. I remember Atlanta fans saying something similar when we went to the Superbowl. They accused NFL of matching up the two brothers to coach against each other in the big game.

Aldon got what was coming to him. It was barely excessive and when you continue to act like a fool - you're not going to get the benefit of doubt.

I agree with both of you. I think "outcomes are fixed" stuff is tinfoil hat material.

I'll say this though: believe in fixed outcomes all you want. But if think they exist, then you sure as hell better acknowledge that it's possible that we're the beneficiary of the outcomes. (Funny how complaints about the game being fixed only surface when we lose, huh?) Perhaps the 49ers entire 80's/90's dynasty was all a mirage....

What was Eddie busted for? / naïvety

On 49ers: Alcohol is players' biggest enemy

Neighbors say there are perhaps a half-dozen of them a year: House parties so loud that the bass from the speakers rattles their windows well into the early-morning hours.

When the sun comes up, the scores of cars that had been parked on the street are gone, the neighbors say, and the only signs of recent revelry are a wine glass or two strewn on the grass in the neighbors' front yards.

That was the scene Sunday morning at 49ers defensive end Ray McDonald’s home in the tony Silver Creek neighborhood in the hills east of San Jose.

The party, which tight end Vernon Davis said was attended by at least half the team, broke up when police arrived at 2:40 a.m. and arrested McDonald on suspicion of felony domestic abuse.

.........

Then there's Smith, who had two DUI arrests in 21/2 years. Breathalyzer tests from the first, in Miami Beach in 2012, registered blood-alcohol levels of .194 and .176, more than double the legal limit. Last year, his blood-alcohol content was measured at .15.

Smith checked into an alcohol rehabilitation center for six weeks after last year's incident, and he's insisted he hasn't had a drink since.

Six months after his stint in rehab, however, he was arrested at Los Angeles International Airport. Police said they suspected Smith had been drinking before arriving at the airport but no blood-alcohol test was given and the charge that he made a bomb threat was dropped.

Still, it was an ugly and untimely episode for someone already being scrutinized by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. And if you're looking for a reason why Smith's nine-game suspension was bigger than expected and why Goodell-as he said he would in October-didn't appear to factor into the punishment the games Smith sat out in 2013, the LAX incident seems like a solid guess.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/09/04/6680512/on-49ers-alcohol-is-players-biggest.html#storylink=cpy