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The Aldon Smith thread

California's self-defense laws excuse your otherwise criminal conduct when you reasonably act to protect yourself or another person from suffering imminent bodily harm.11

This means that even if you negligently discharge your firearm...but only do so because

you reasonably fear that you or someone else is about to suffer imminent bodily harm, andfiring your gun is a reasonable way to prevent that harm...you should be acquitted of any criminal liability under Penal Code 246.3 PC.12
[ Edited by SportsFan on Apr 23, 2014 at 8:39 PM ]
That is why Aldon was not charged with firing his gun, cause he was legally allowed to according to California's self-defense laws. This was brought up way back when the incident happened.
  • buck
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Originally posted by SportsFan:
California's self-defense laws excuse your otherwise criminal conduct when you reasonably act to protect yourself or another person from suffering imminent bodily harm.11

This means that even if you negligently discharge your firearm...but only do so because

you reasonably fear that you or someone else is about to suffer imminent bodily harm, andfiring your gun is a reasonable way to prevent that harm...you should be acquitted of any criminal liability under Penal Code 246.3 PC.12

Originally posted by SportsFan:
That is why Aldon was not charged with firing his gun, cause he was legally allowed to according to California's self-defense laws. This was brought up way back when the incident happened.

Thank you.

I had no idea that the facts in the case and the law on self-defense were the reasons that Aldon Smith was not charged.

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
California's self-defense laws excuse your otherwise criminal conduct when you reasonably act to protect yourself or another person from suffering imminent bodily harm.11

This means that even if you negligently discharge your firearm...but only do so because

you reasonably fear that you or someone else is about to suffer imminent bodily harm, andfiring your gun is a reasonable way to prevent that harm...you should be acquitted of any criminal liability under Penal Code 246.3 PC.12

Originally posted by SportsFan:
That is why Aldon was not charged with firing his gun, cause he was legally allowed to according to California's self-defense laws. This was brought up way back when the incident happened.

Thank you.

I had no idea that the facts in the case and the law on self-defense were the reasons that Aldon Smith was not charged.


That is what I remember reading way back when all this first came to light.
  • Disp
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Unbelievable. Un-fricking-believable. 471 posts, and STILL...STILL...we have never heard Aldon's side of the airport story ( a wise thing from legal standpoint), and we STILL have no idea what the heck Goodell's intent is. It is incredible we have managed to manufacture 471 posts of just, well, drivel. I know, I don't have to read it, but looking at it from a long way away, it really is overkill.

More then likely no one will ever hear his side publicly anyways. More then likely hes been told to remain tight lipped about what happened for he legal reasons. All we will ever hear is the assumptions of the media.

Yeah, no one benefits by hearing his side of the story. He either joked that he had a bomb or he didn't, and that's the absolutely only thing that matters. The rest of the conversation is completely meaningless.
  • Jd925
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Originally posted by BobS:
Maybe you should Google "Guns fired in the air" numerous people have been killed that way along with numerous people incarcerated for shooting in the air. The bullet doesn't come down with the velocity in goes up but still returns to earth with enough velocity to kill. There isn't a penal code statue for the usual 100 yard rule as shooting and hunting regulations pretty much vary from city to city and county to county.

Here is a regulation showing the 100 yard rule:

20. It shall be unlawful to discharge or
shoot any firearm or other weapon in or
along any public road or street or within
100 yards thereof or within 100 yards of
any building occupied or used as a
dwelling or place where the public gath-
ers

That was plucked off a page in my state of Virginia they had a list of regulations 1-100 and then the numbers that applied to each city or county. Most counties don't have #20 here, but that is pro gun state of Virginia, not California. The reason there isn't a blanket no shooting in the air rule is that bird hunting and clay pigeon shooting is legal in many areas usually with bird shot only. Even here if you are firing in the air you better be license to hunt birds with a shotgun or you will get a warning or possibly arrested.

I never understood the idea of someone being killed by bullets that are shot in the air... the bullet should just peak and stop and then fall and hit a non-lethal terminal velocity as it descends. These laws like most are frivolous. I bet most instances where people actually die are when someone shoots someone above them like from the first to second floor and the story somehow is passed off as someone 'shooting in the air' and killing someone.. of course it doesn't hurt for government to use myths in the media and create more frivolous laws to keep the masses confined in a tiny little cage.
  • Jd925
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  • Posts: 1,286
TSA Searching 2 and 6 Year Old Children.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c4_1398208550

Molesting children every single day...
Originally posted by trogdor:
Wow. Makes me wonder exactly what someone would have to do to deserve punishment in your book. I think your moral compass needs an adjustment. You seriously think it's no big deal for a person to drive while intoxicated if it's just a short distance? Would you agree if that person had to drive through a school zone on their short jaunt home? Would you be ok with a crane operator coming in to work if he could barely function because he was sick? You clearly have poor judgment, so it's not surprising that you would excuse Smith's behavior.


First, what is "immoral" per se about endangering someone's health and / or well being? It sounds horrific to say that, but if you stop and think about it, it happens every day, in every way, by everyone.
For example, would you allow people who have not slept the night before, the right to drive? They are endangering people's lives just as much if not more than intoxicated drivers. I think both situations are "bad", one is illegal, the other cannot be enforced, but how is driving while sleepy any less "morally" questionable? If Aldon fell asleep at the wheel, I am sure people would be calling him "stupid", much more than they would be calling him "morally reprehensible" or a "bad person". For all we know, Aldon was a combination of drunk and sleepy at the time. It was late, by all accounts he hadn't slept yet, but of course nobody even brings that idea up as a point of concern, because being a sleepy driver is not illegal (as far as I am aware).
For some reason, when something is illegal, the so-called morality of the act comes into question, and most fans could probably care less if a player demonstrates carelessness or "stupidity", but when a player becomes "morally reprehensible", now fans might call for him to be removed from the team.

Second, the context of the situation needs to be made clear.
Jeff Garcia was caught with a DUI. Did fans question his morality? Nope. They just figured it to be a stupid act.
Many other 49ers have had DUI's, and guess what, what they were doing was much more dangerous, because they were driving in a city where there are tons of cars and pedestrians. Aldon was driving a few blocks home where there was 98% likely nobody else on the road, car or pedestrian.
Aldon's DECISION was much less "morally reprehensible" then a typical DUI, because the context of the situation was more safe. However, he passed out on the way, which changes the appearance of what happened. Did he pass out because he was drunk as a skunk? Or did he pass out because he was smoking weed and drinking? Or did he pass out because he had drunk a little and was also very sleepy? Or perhaps some combination of the three?
I have a feeling he was just as sleepy as he was drunk, judging from the fact that he was coming from McDonald's house, because if he came from Ray McDonald's house, McDonald is just as culpable morally, in allowing Aldon Smith to leave his house stone cold drunk. I feel McDonald would have convinced him to stay at his place if he was truly that drunk. I can't prove that of course, but that is a very reasonable assumption. McDonald obviously felt that Aldon had the ability to make the drive a few blocks to his house. This leads me to believe that Aldon was not "stone cold" drunk, but rather a combination of drunk and SLEEPY. I also would not be surprised if he made this type of drive more than once from McDonald's house. He had probably done it before, therefore, he felt that he would be able to do it again successfully WITHOUT endangering anybody's health.
The same cannot be said for Garcia, Stubblefield or many of the other 49ers who have had DUI's. They had a lot more reason to believe that they were endangering people's lives than Aldon Smith ever did, therefore, in my opinion their acts were much more morally reprehensible, yet no one called for them to be kicked off the team or accused them of having a drinking problem.

Third, I am tired of the NFL pretending to have a little yellow halo around it's sport.
What if Aldon Smith was playing high school football, and he was much bigger than another kid, but then hit a kid so hard it broke his neck and killed him? It's not like this has not happened before. There is no rule in football where you cannot hit somebody hard if they are smaller than you. Is this morally justifiable simply because it is not illegal?
The game of football itself has questionable "moral" ground. You are trying to smash people into submission. You could injure them or kill them. They could have brain trauma later in life. Non of this is "morally reprehensible"? WTF? This is a brutal sport. BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON!!!
That type of thought process deserves a little halo around the logo? That type of thought process allows quire boys to dominate the sport? I don't think so.
The NFL attracts (or creates) rapists, gang members, serial killers, drug users, alcoholics, thieves and criminals more than any other pro sport. This is not a surprise. All the quire boys quit after the first day of training camp.

The NFL tries to pretend it is something wholesome and wonderful by suspending players who have done "bad" things. "Bad" being defined by whatever the media circus decides will gather the most eyeballs and make the most money.
The things Aldon Smith has done in COMPARISON to what other players, who we think of as hero's, and who are recognized as NFL champions, is almost nothing in comparison. However, the media circus creates such a hype around it, that it gathers momentum on it's own.

If I had the ability, I would knock out Ray Rice and spit on him for what he did.
I would put Charles Haley in a mental institution.
I would slap Roethlisberger and kick him in the balls.
I would spit in Darren Sharpers face and then BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON!!!
I would be afraid of Ahmad Brooks.

I would say to Aldon Smith, "Hey Aldon, what's up? You know, you really need to stay out of the media circus." And then I would shake his hand.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
First, what is "immoral" per se about endangering someone's health and / or well being? It sounds horrific to say that, but if you stop and think about it, it happens every day, in every way, by everyone.
For example, would you allow people who have not slept the night before, the right to drive? They are endangering people's lives just as much if not more than intoxicated drivers. I think both situations are "bad", one is illegal, the other cannot be enforced, but how is driving while sleepy any less "morally" questionable? If Aldon fell asleep at the wheel, I am sure people would be calling him "stupid", much more than they would be calling him "morally reprehensible" or a "bad person". For all we know, Aldon was a combination of drunk and sleepy at the time. It was late, by all accounts he hadn't slept yet, but of course nobody even brings that idea up as a point of concern, because being a sleepy driver is not illegal (as far as I am aware).
For some reason, when something is illegal, the so-called morality of the act comes into question, and most fans could probably care less if a player demonstrates carelessness or "stupidity", but when a player becomes "morally reprehensible", now fans might call for him to be removed from the team.

Second, the context of the situation needs to be made clear.
Jeff Garcia was caught with a DUI. Did fans question his morality? Nope. They just figured it to be a stupid act.
Many other 49ers have had DUI's, and guess what, what they were doing was much more dangerous, because they were driving in a city where there are tons of cars and pedestrians. Aldon was driving a few blocks home where there was 98% likely nobody else on the road, car or pedestrian.
Aldon's DECISION was much less "morally reprehensible" then a typical DUI, because the context of the situation was more safe. However, he passed out on the way, which changes the appearance of what happened. Did he pass out because he was drunk as a skunk? Or did he pass out because he was smoking weed and drinking? Or did he pass out because he had drunk a little and was also very sleepy? Or perhaps some combination of the three?
I have a feeling he was just as sleepy as he was drunk, judging from the fact that he was coming from McDonald's house, because if he came from Ray McDonald's house, McDonald is just as culpable morally, in allowing Aldon Smith to leave his house stone cold drunk. I feel McDonald would have convinced him to stay at his place if he was truly that drunk. I can't prove that of course, but that is a very reasonable assumption. McDonald obviously felt that Aldon had the ability to make the drive a few blocks to his house. This leads me to believe that Aldon was not "stone cold" drunk, but rather a combination of drunk and SLEEPY. I also would not be surprised if he made this type of drive more than once from McDonald's house. He had probably done it before, therefore, he felt that he would be able to do it again successfully WITHOUT endangering anybody's health.
The same cannot be said for Garcia, Stubblefield or many of the other 49ers who have had DUI's. They had a lot more reason to believe that they were endangering people's lives than Aldon Smith ever did, therefore, in my opinion their acts were much more morally reprehensible, yet no one called for them to be kicked off the team or accused them of having a drinking problem.

Third, I am tired of the NFL pretending to have a little yellow halo around it's sport.
What if Aldon Smith was playing high school football, and he was much bigger than another kid, but then hit a kid so hard it broke his neck and killed him? It's not like this has not happened before. There is no rule in football where you cannot hit somebody hard if they are smaller than you. Is this morally justifiable simply because it is not illegal?
The game of football itself has questionable "moral" ground. You are trying to smash people into submission. You could injure them or kill them. They could have brain trauma later in life. Non of this is "morally reprehensible"? WTF? This is a brutal sport. BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON!!!
That type of thought process deserves a little halo around the logo? That type of thought process allows quire boys to dominate the sport? I don't think so.
The NFL attracts (or creates) rapists, gang members, serial killers, drug users, alcoholics, thieves and criminals more than any other pro sport. This is not a surprise. All the quire boys quit after the first day of training camp.

The NFL tries to pretend it is something wholesome and wonderful by suspending players who have done "bad" things. "Bad" being defined by whatever the media circus decides will gather the most eyeballs and make the most money.
The things Aldon Smith has done in COMPARISON to what other players, who we think of as hero's, and who are recognized as NFL champions, is almost nothing in comparison. However, the media circus creates such a hype around it, that it gathers momentum on it's own.

If I had the ability, I would knock out Ray Rice and spit on him for what he did.
I would put Charles Haley in a mental institution.
I would slap Roethlisberger and kick him in the balls.
I would spit in Darren Sharpers face and then BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON BLUDDGEEEON!!!
I would be afraid of Ahmad Brooks.

I would say to Aldon Smith, "Hey Aldon, what's up? You know, you really need to stay out of the media circus." And then I would shake his hand.

Bravo, I was asking my buddy yesterday why it was perfectly acceptable with the NFL to endorse and back Ray Lewis after he bought his way out of a murder charge but they might suspend Aldon for who knows how long because he makes bad choices when he drinks and he pissed off a TSA b***h who decided to report him after she allowed him into the secure area of the airport.
Originally posted by Jd925:
TSA Searching 2 and 6 Year Old Children.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c4_1398208550

Molesting children every single day...


Condition them at a young age to believe it is OK to submit themselves to searches without probable cause. That way, when they are adults, they won't complain about it if they are getting arrested at a McDonald's.

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by Jd925:
I never understood the idea of someone being killed by bullets that are shot in the air... the bullet should just peak and stop and then fall and hit a non-lethal terminal velocity as it descends.

Discharging a gun in the air covers more than just shooting straight up in the air--at a 90 degree angle to the earth.

I was always taught NOT to fire any gun unless you could see and recognize the target.

Just thought that was a pretty simple, straight forward, hard and fast rule of gun safety.
Originally posted by Jd925:
TSA Searching 2 and 6 Year Old Children.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c4_1398208550

Molesting children every single day...

This is a rather stupid comment I am afraid. Children and babies have been used as mules by terrorists on a number of occasions.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Jd925:
TSA Searching 2 and 6 Year Old Children.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c4_1398208550

Molesting children every single day...

This is a rather stupid comment I am afraid. Children and babies have been used as mules by terrorists on a number of occasions.

Go through the X Ray if you don't like it. You got a choice. People get as much or more radiation at 35,000 feet so the radiation argument is also false. English is right btw. Terrorists know small children are less likely to be searched and have used them as mules for that reason. It's perfectly reasonable to search them. Again if you don't like it go through the X Ray.
Originally posted by BobS:
Maybe you should Google "Guns fired in the air" numerous people have been killed that way along with numerous people incarcerated for shooting in the air. The bullet doesn't come down with the velocity in goes up but still returns to earth with enough velocity to kill. There isn't a penal code statue for the usual 100 yard rule as shooting and hunting regulations pretty much vary from city to city and county to county.

Here is a regulation showing the 100 yard rule:

20. It shall be unlawful to discharge or
shoot any firearm or other weapon in or
along any public road or street or within
100 yards thereof or within 100 yards of
any building occupied or used as a
dwelling or place where the public gath-
ers

That was plucked off a page in my state of Virginia they had a list of regulations 1-100 and then the numbers that applied to each city or county. Most counties don't have #20 here, but that is pro gun state of Virginia, not California. The reason there isn't a blanket no shooting in the air rule is that bird hunting and clay pigeon shooting is legal in many areas usually with bird shot only. Even here if you are firing in the air you better be license to hunt birds with a shotgun or you will get a warning or possibly arrested.

"Virginia" does not equate with "California."

Shooting into the air in a highly populated area could be considered negligent, perhaps even grossly negligent in some circumstances. But Aldon lives in a suburb, and a relatively new one at that which is not very densely populated.

Bottom line is that Aldon's act of shooting into the air to disperse a crowd at his house was not illegal in California. Explains why he has not been charged with that. Those in this thread who keep bringing it up as evidence of his criminal conduct are simply off base. Your reliance on Virginia laws and statutes is interesting, but neither relevant nor supportive of their off base position.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BobS:
Maybe you should Google "Guns fired in the air" numerous people have been killed that way along with numerous people incarcerated for shooting in the air. The bullet doesn't come down with the velocity in goes up but still returns to earth with enough velocity to kill. There isn't a penal code statue for the usual 100 yard rule as shooting and hunting regulations pretty much vary from city to city and county to county.

Here is a regulation showing the 100 yard rule:

20. It shall be unlawful to discharge or
shoot any firearm or other weapon in or
along any public road or street or within
100 yards thereof or within 100 yards of
any building occupied or used as a
dwelling or place where the public gath-
ers

That was plucked off a page in my state of Virginia they had a list of regulations 1-100 and then the numbers that applied to each city or county. Most counties don't have #20 here, but that is pro gun state of Virginia, not California. The reason there isn't a blanket no shooting in the air rule is that bird hunting and clay pigeon shooting is legal in many areas usually with bird shot only. Even here if you are firing in the air you better be license to hunt birds with a shotgun or you will get a warning or possibly arrested.

"Virginia" does not equate with "California."

Shooting into the air in a highly populated area could be considered negligent, perhaps even grossly negligent in some circumstances. But Aldon lives in a suburb, and a relatively new one at that which is not very densely populated.

Bottom line is that Aldon's act of shooting into the air to disperse a crowd at his house was not illegal in California. Explains why he has not been charged with that. Those in this thread who keep bringing it up as evidence of his criminal conduct are simply off base. Your reliance on Virginia laws and statutes is interesting, but neither relevant nor supportive of their off base position.

You can't fire guns into the air to disperse people in CA. LOLOLOLOL.
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