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Fleming out for 2012 , Do we look for another OLB for depth?

  • teeohh
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,874
They should, there could be other injuries
It's a long off season. We'll see.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Honestly, he only has value at this point because of the injury to Flemming. Haralson has been a stalwart against the run and 'good' at setting the edge, but he lacks elite sideline to sideline speed to be great at setting the edge (Manny Lawson was much better at this than Haralson). He's a mediocre pass rusher, at best.

At this point, he is a 'high-motor', expensive back-up who is a leader. Most of the time, leaders are indispensable; however, we have plenty of leaders on our defense. And before Flemming's injury, I was all for cutting him to keep our D-line talent. But now we are going to be stretched thin at OLB, requiring us to keep Haralson.

But your point that anyone who thinks he as no value doesn't understand a 3-4 is off, IMO. Our 3-4 OLBs are pass rushers, #1. We happen to have the two best ILB in the game patrolling the running lanes and who can flow sideline to sideline. Our OLBs must get to the QB. Haralson has proven he is under-capable of this, especially with the increased mileage on his body.

The way our 34 plays, only 4 men are rushing the passer on most downs. In most cases, those 4 men were one of the following combinations

JSmith, Soap, Mac, Brooks

ASmith, JSmith, Mac, Brooks

Haralson's job was to set the edge and he did an excellent job on 1st and 2nd down last year. This requires far more than a high motor to accomplish. Anyone who knows defense knows that in order to have an elite run stopping unit, you need every single player on the field to efficiently do his job to contain the run. Elite sideline to sideline speed was not required to effectively do this (proof being there effectiveness stopping the run, there was no one better) and I would much rather have a well rounded starting 34 outside backer than a speed guy like Manny Lawson who gets blown off the line of scrimmage.

He is going to lose a significant amount of playing time this year so he is expendable if that comes true. We lost a few starters last year and didnt miss a beat so losing Haralson doesn't concern me.
Originally posted by toeshawn:
They should, there could be other injuries

i was thinking about this.
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Haralson was never going to get cut. People that say he has no value don't know ANYTHING about the 3-4. He's a quality veteran, plays the run great, forces fumbles....the only part of his game is that he's not getting the huge sack numbers but he wasn't in on the passing downs.

We went with 3 OLB backers last year and we are going to cut him for salary? NOT SMART.

These are the same posters that said Ahmad Brooks isn't a good 3-4 backer.

It takes while to learn the 3-4, it's not an easy position to play. You have to set the edge, play upright, play the run and the pass, read the d and drop into coverage.

I love Aldon Smith but he would have got EXPOSED if we didn't have Parys Haralson.

The niners will probably add depth to the team but a major signing probably not.

Hopefully Cam Johnson can step up his game, he has 3-4 experience already and that's a huge plus.

+1 I think the FO will also bring another OLB or two into camp just to see what's available. I think Haralson is going to provide quality as a backup. Too bad about Fleming though, was looking forward to seeing him compete for a spot on the team. GO NINERS!!!
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Haralson was never going to get cut. People that say he has no value don't know ANYTHING about the 3-4. He's a quality veteran, plays the run great, forces fumbles....the only part of his game is that he's not getting the huge sack numbers but he wasn't in on the passing downs.

We went with 3 OLB backers last year and we are going to cut him for salary? NOT SMART.

These are the same posters that said Ahmad Brooks isn't a good 3-4 backer.

It takes while to learn the 3-4, it's not an easy position to play. You have to set the edge, play upright, play the run and the pass, read the d and drop into coverage.

I love Aldon Smith but he would have got EXPOSED if we didn't have Parys Haralson.

The niners will probably add depth to the team but a major signing probably not.

Hopefully Cam Johnson can step up his game, he has 3-4 experience already and that's a huge plus.

Agree with you. Haralson's a good linebacker. He's certainly a starting 3-4 OLB in the league. Is he an elite pass-rusher? No, he's not. He doesn't do anything at a high-level. But he does everything pretty good, and he's a solid guy. He's perfect in the role of a back-up or rotational guy. Salary is a bit of an issue, but I think we can deal with it for at least another year.
All depends.

First, we couold definitely go into the season w/Haralson, Aldo, Brooks.

Cam is the wildcard. If he can show the coaches his vast potential [I'm really hoping] then we won't.

If he is more developmental than productive then maybe.

Finally, if for some crazy reason someone very good is released due to roster move or $ then I could see us making a move.

In Baalke/JH I trust.
We were lucky not to have suffered any major injuries on defense , we really should bring in another body for camp ..LaBoy would be ok for depth purposes and special teams , but I'm sure Baalke will wait and see what veteran 3-4 olb's are available when teams start making cuts ....Cam Johnson has a chance to earn some serious playing time and prove his doubters wrong ..he will have a chip on his shoulder and it will benefit our D if we can groom another top pass rusher
  • cools
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,339
Think they go with five

Cam Johnson as the pass rush specialist, and I think Holland makes it
Holland is more of a 4-3 coverage/contain type guy, but thats not a bad thing, he's fast and tackles well
and should turn some heads on special teams

I know they are saying ILB, but I think he learns both spots, and could find his way on the 53
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Haralson was never going to get cut. People that say he has no value don't know ANYTHING about the 3-4. He's a quality veteran, plays the run great, forces fumbles....the only part of his game is that he's not getting the huge sack numbers but he wasn't in on the passing downs.

We went with 3 OLB backers last year and we are going to cut him for salary? NOT SMART.

These are the same posters that said Ahmad Brooks isn't a good 3-4 backer.

It takes while to learn the 3-4, it's not an easy position to play. You have to set the edge, play upright, play the run and the pass, read the d and drop into coverage.

I love Aldon Smith but he would have got EXPOSED if we didn't have Parys Haralson.

The niners will probably add depth to the team but a major signing probably not.

Hopefully Cam Johnson can step up his game, he has 3-4 experience already and that's a huge plus.

Cosign. Cutting Parys comes from everybody wanting to play armchair GM and figuring out how to say every penny in cap space.
Originally posted by jreff22:
He is going to lose a significant amount of playing time this year so he is expendable if that comes true. We lost a few starters last year and didnt miss a beat so losing Haralson doesn't concern me.

How is he expendable when there is no one on the roster who has ever played OLB in the NFL to back up the starters? You need to have depth at OLB to have a good 34. We got lucky no one got injured last year, Harbaugh knows this. They are not so dumb they think they can get away with that year after year.
  • Walsh
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 294
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
All depends.

First, we couold definitely go into the season w/Haralson, Aldo, Brooks.

Cam is the wildcard. If he can show the coaches his vast potential [I'm really hoping] then we won't.

If he is more developmental than productive then maybe.

Finally, if for some crazy reason someone very good is released due to roster move or $ then I could see us making a move.

In Baalke/JH I trust.

After reading about Cam and seeing some clips, I would be really surprised if he contributed this year. Wish I could have seen some real highlights of him but everything I saw made him look a little late to plays. Also, read about him having an injury that he couldn't shake but it's kinda a mystery as to what type of leg injury it was. I wonder if we'd be better off taking some olb rookie off the waiver wires from another team.

So, I hope we sign a vet but would love to hear the case for Cam. He had good #s first few seasons..