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Randy Moss

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
That Titans' game highlights in 2009 was telling to me about Smith with his 3INTs. Those aren't necessarily inaccurate throws, 2 out of 3 of them hit the receivers hands. They were contested throws. If you noticed the DB is right there on each of them to contest the pass. Consequently they were tipped and/or intercepted. That one to Crabtree was late downfield, contested and picked. I think Smith learned from that. If it looks like the DB is close enough to contest it he won't throw it in most cases unless it's a critical conversion for a critical drive. I've seen him make some close contested throws but most of the time it's to someone he trust like VD and occasionally to Crabtree, and Morgan when he was here.

Hopefully he has a set of receivers he can trust this year to fight for those contested ones.

With all the rotating receivers last year yet he only has 5INTs. I have to think Harbaugh has something to do with this too. Wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh went through all the INTs that Smith ever had in the offseason. Then told Smith don't force it into a tight one with guys you aren't familiar with.

if the throws are contested then he's throwing it to the wrong spot or he is late on his delivery
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
That Titans' game highlights in 2009 was telling to me about Smith with his 3INTs. Those aren't necessarily inaccurate throws, 2 out of 3 of them hit the receivers hands. They were contested throws. If you noticed the DB is right there on each of them to contest the pass. Consequently they were tipped and/or intercepted. That one to Crabtree was late downfield, contested and picked. I think Smith learned from that. If it looks like the DB is close enough to contest it he won't throw it in most cases unless it's a critical conversion for a critical drive. I've seen him make some close contested throws but most of the time it's to someone he trust like VD and occasionally to Crabtree, and Morgan when he was here.

Hopefully he has a set of receivers he can trust this year to fight for those contested ones.

With all the rotating receivers last year yet he only has 5INTs. I have to think Harbaugh has something to do with this too. Wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh went through all the INTs that Smith ever had in the offseason. Then told Smith don't force it into a tight one with guys you aren't familiar with.

if the throws are contested then he's throwing it to the wrong spot or he is late on his delivery

How is it the wrong spot when it hits the receivers hands. When it's late, that's on Smith -- I agree with that.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
That Titans' game highlights in 2009 was telling to me about Smith with his 3INTs. Those aren't necessarily inaccurate throws, 2 out of 3 of them hit the receivers hands. They were contested throws. If you noticed the DB is right there on each of them to contest the pass. Consequently they were tipped and/or intercepted. That one to Crabtree was late downfield, contested and picked. I think Smith learned from that. If it looks like the DB is close enough to contest it he won't throw it in most cases unless it's a critical conversion for a critical drive. I've seen him make some close contested throws but most of the time it's to someone he trust like VD and occasionally to Crabtree, and Morgan when he was here.

Hopefully he has a set of receivers he can trust this year to fight for those contested ones.

With all the rotating receivers last year yet he only has 5INTs. I have to think Harbaugh has something to do with this too. Wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh went through all the INTs that Smith ever had in the offseason. Then told Smith don't force it into a tight one with guys you aren't familiar with.

if the throws are contested then he's throwing it to the wrong spot or he is late on his delivery

How is it the wrong spot when it hits the receivers hands. When it's late, that's on Smith -- I agree with that.

you said it was contested, since the ball is late or in the wrong spot..the WR has to adjust to the CB and can lose concentration like boxing out a player in BBall but not as physical and the ball bouncing off his hands.

Example QB's throwing to a correct spot (Aaron Rogers, Peyton M) if the WR can't catch it most likely no one would catch it.

This is Alex's weakest attribute and it gets him sacked a lot. if he can figure out where to throw it, then we can have less sacks and less yardage loss.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
you said it was contested, since the ball is late or in the wrong spot..the WR has to adjust to the CB and can lose concentration like boxing out a player in BBall but not as physical and the ball bouncing off his hands.

Example QB's throwing to a correct spot (Aaron Rogers, Peyton M) if the WR can't catch it most likely no one would catch it.

This is Alex's weakest attribute and it gets him sacked a lot. if he can figure out where to throw it, then we can have less sacks and less yardage loss.

I wouldn't classify it as a weekness, but more as conservativeness. We've seen Alex make tight window throws when he has too, or lead a receiver, the problem is Alex cares more about not giving the ball back than throwing risky passes. I myself think it's a large part of learning a new system and not wanting to make mistakes, and also a lack of trust in his receivers. Hopefully this year (and I fully expect him to) Alex will be able to put more faith in himself and the offense as a whole. It's what's needed to take the next step. If he can't take that step then he will forever be a mediocre QB.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
Bingo!! Alex isn't blameless at all. But he wasn't THE problem this time. And that is reflective of the off-season moves. In terms of Randy Moss I still have my doubts. But I have been reading some good things. Still, it's a horrible reflection of the current WR corps, especially on the supposed #1, when a 35 year old with a checkered history and out for a year can come in and in 1 camp be the top WR.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

For all his fault (and I've been on of his critics) the 2011 season was not a season in which the offense struggled because of the play of Alex Smith.

Very good post 9ersLifer--There are so many moving parts during a football play that being out of sync just a bit throws the whole timing off. It's hard to know just how much blame should be placed with a player unless they make an obvious mistake. Randy Moss may help redefine receiving for the 9ers.

Examples of obvious mistakes?
1) QB throwing directly to a DB when no receiver was in the area. Seldom happens with Smith because he tends to know the plays well and is not an airhead. Having the ball sail over the receivers head (fundamentals?). Fumbles, not of the snap because that could be the OC, but as Smith has done trying to move the ball from hand to hand or to a throwing motion.
2) WR having the ball bounce off a body part because he took his eyes off the ball or was hearing footsteps. We've seen many examples of this on the 9ers in the past. Ginn and Crabtree were the worst offenders in this regard last year.
3) OL standing in a zone with no defender in front of him while a blitzer runs untouched between he and another lineman. Whiffing on a block. Blocking a rusher into the QB or RB.
4) Vision--poor vision can lead to mistakes and that was one of my concerns with Smith years ago, but is less a worry after last year. Some receiverss seem to have difficulty finding the ball at times. Walker, Ginn and Edwards all had plays that could have been TDs if they were able to find the ball early enough to adjust. Instead they either allowed an interception or saw the ball hit the ground a short distance away.

Most folks who defend Smith understand all this and react to silly blame games or incitements by those who only blame Smith. Can't think of any poster who has declared that Smith has no faults. Not ready for canonization, but he has gone through purgatory! Hard for me not to appreciate what he has endured with great character. If he and Moss can become successful, with VD already in sync, it should help Crabtree to get open and to turn around his attitude re Smith.

Their "ceilings" are open for discussion, obviously, but will leave that for another day.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jul 11, 2012 at 9:16 AM ]
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

For all his fault (and I've been on of his critics) the 2011 season was not a season in which the offense struggled because of the play of Alex Smith.

Very good post 9ersLifer--There are so many moving parts during a football play that being out of sync just a bit throws the whole timing off. It's hard to know just how much blame should be placed with a player unless they make an obvious mistake. Randy Moss may help redefine receiving for the 9ers.

Examples of obvious mistakes?
1) QB throwing directly to a DB when no receiver was in the area. Seldom happens with Smith because he tends to know the plays well and is not an airhead. Having the ball sail over the receivers head (fundamentals?). Fumbles, not of the snap because that could be the OC, but as Smith has done trying to move the ball from hand to hand or to a throwing motion.
2) WR having the ball bounce off a body part because he took his eyes off the ball or was hearing footsteps. We've seen many examples of this on the 9ers in the past. Ginn and Crabtree were the worst offenders in this regard last year.
3) OL standing in a zone with no defender in front of him while a blitzer runs untouched between he and another lineman. Whiffing on a block. Blocking a rusher into the QB or RB.
4) Vision--poor vision can lead to mistakes and that was one of my concerns with Smith years ago, but is less a worry after last year. Some receiverss seem to have difficulty finding the ball at times. Walker, Ginn and Edwards all had plays that could have been TDs if they were able to find the ball early enough to adjust. Instead they either allowed an interception or saw the ball hit the ground a short distance away.

Most folks who defend Smith understand all this and react to silly blame games or incitements by those who only blame Smith. Can't think of any poster who has declared that Smith has no faults. Not ready for canonization, but he has gone through purgatory! Hard for me not to appreciate what he has endured with great character. If he and Moss can become successful, with VD already in sync, it should help Crabtree to get open and to turn around his attitude re Smith.

Their "ceilings" are open for discussion, obviously, but will leave that for another day.
people just look for the big things to lay blame to when things do not go well.Case in point the nfc title game. I wish more people would understand that there are so many little things in a "team" sport that lead up to the final score or final product at the end of the year. There are lots of other plays that take place leading up to the end of a game
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
Bingo!! Alex isn't blameless at all. But he wasn't THE problem this time. And that is reflective of the off-season moves. In terms of Randy Moss I still have my doubts. But I have been reading some good things. Still, it's a horrible reflection of the current WR corps, especially on the supposed #1, when a 35 year old with a checkered history and out for a year can come in and in 1 camp be the top WR.

so we should forget that Peyton Manning was really close to throwing for our team
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
Bingo!! Alex isn't blameless at all. But he wasn't THE problem this time. And that is reflective of the off-season moves. In terms of Randy Moss I still have my doubts. But I have been reading some good things. Still, it's a horrible reflection of the current WR corps, especially on the supposed #1, when a 35 year old with a checkered history and out for a year can come in and in 1 camp be the top WR.

so we should forget that Peyton Manning was really close to throwing for our team

sigh... stirring it up or serious? UGh,.. you know what.. nevermind.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
Bingo!! Alex isn't blameless at all. But he wasn't THE problem this time. And that is reflective of the off-season moves. In terms of Randy Moss I still have my doubts. But I have been reading some good things. Still, it's a horrible reflection of the current WR corps, especially on the supposed #1, when a 35 year old with a checkered history and out for a year can come in and in 1 camp be the top WR.

so we should forget that Peyton Manning was really close to throwing for our team

sigh... stirring it up or serious? UGh,.. you know what.. nevermind.
not stirring up anything, Fact just cause he chose somewhere else doesn't exclude him as an option to get better at a position.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
not stirring up anything, Fact just cause he chose somewhere else doesn't exclude him as an option to get better at a position.

Did someone list Smith as the best QB in the NFL? I must have missed it. Not sure what point you are making...the team will try to get better at every position at any and all times? Sure, you bet. That's why most here love Baalke and Harbaugh.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
Bingo!! Alex isn't blameless at all. But he wasn't THE problem this time. And that is reflective of the off-season moves. In terms of Randy Moss I still have my doubts. But I have been reading some good things. Still, it's a horrible reflection of the current WR corps, especially on the supposed #1, when a 35 year old with a checkered history and out for a year can come in and in 1 camp be the top WR.

so we should forget that Peyton Manning was really close to throwing for our team

sigh... stirring it up or serious? UGh,.. you know what.. nevermind.
not stirring up anything, Fact just cause he chose somewhere else doesn't exclude him as an option to get better at a position.

This wasn't the point he was making. Your comment about Peyton Manning was actually irrelevant to the previous post.
WTH? Don't we have a thread already about Smith? I thought this is a thread about Randy?
Originally posted by kingairta:
WTH? Don't we have a thread already about Smith? I thought this is a thread about Randy?

LOL !!! Turned into an Alex thread two pages back with this :

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Our talent at WR is not an issue any longer. The issue is whether or not Smith can get the ball down the field to WRs.He underthrew Crabtree quite a few times last year. He also has shown a lack of willingness to take a shot down the field when the opportunity has presented. AS also prefers the TE...which is not a bad thing considering we have VD and DW. Will Moss get pissed off when AS dumps it down when he has a step on his CB? Who knows...AS is going to have to find a balance this season between playing safe, ball control offense VS being a gunslinger and taking shots with the new weapons. If he can find this balance, we will be TOUGH to beat.


Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
Bingo!! Alex isn't blameless at all. But he wasn't THE problem this time. And that is reflective of the off-season moves. In terms of Randy Moss I still have my doubts. But I have been reading some good things. Still, it's a horrible reflection of the current WR corps, especially on the supposed #1, when a 35 year old with a checkered history and out for a year can come in and in 1 camp be the top WR.

so we should forget that Peyton Manning was really close to throwing for our team

Yes, please forget that Peyton Manning could have signed with us. Lets deal with whats on our roster now and not what could have been.