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Randy Moss

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Our talent at WR is not an issue any longer. The issue is whether or not Smith can get the ball down the field to WRs.

He underthrew Crabtree quite a few times last year. He also has shown a lack of willingness to take a shot down the field when the opportunity has presented. AS also prefers the TE...which is not a bad thing considering we have VD and DW. Will Moss get pissed off when AS dumps it down when he has a step on his CB? Who knows...

AS is going to have to find a balance this season between playing safe, ball control offense VS being a gunslinger and taking shots with the new weapons. If he can find this balance, we will be TOUGH to beat.
What you saw as underthrows most others saw Crabs running the wrong routes and terrible route running, often. It was pretty clear that Crabs and Alex Smith weren't on the page at all last season. In fact at times it seemed as if Alex was 2 or 3 pages ahead of Crabs. As the season went on Alex's only real dependable receiver he could count on was Vernon Davis, not just catching the ball consistently, but being were he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there. You can't blame a QB for throwing to whom he trusts. Was Crabs the leading 49ers WR? Yes, but by default, and he certainly wasn't our most important receiver. And you have to understand that Alex was brilliantly managed by JH & Co. He was playing within the offense. He did what the coaches wanted him to do. Sure the playcalls were conservative at times. But that wasn't all on Alex, or even mostly on Alex. The WR corps was quite horrible all season and Crabs was a big reason why. That's why JH and Baalkie made the moves they did at that one position. If Moss comes in and overtakes Crabs - which many here know I'm not a fan of Moss being a 9er anyway - the criticism of Crabs from me will be unending. And you can bet that if that happens Crabs will have to put up Megatron-like numbers to remain in the red & gold next season.
Didn't they reported that Smith consistently threw downfield to Moss in OTA. You can even see some of his throws to Moss in the 49ers.com vid site. Now that OTAs are over, Smith suddenly has trouble throwing to Moss because of his alleged weak arm...

[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jul 10, 2012 at 8:26 PM ]
Originally posted by fly15:
this is the most f...n deplorable post in wz history.... "showcase it"

one way or another they will find a way blame Moss for our weak passing attack

This kind of reminds me of some of the Nixon tapes. They are out there and they will blame! Or am I thinking of the Caine Mutiny? "Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic...that they would cover for Smith! They would blame Moss...or the CIA...or Haldemann!"
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
What you saw as underthrows most others saw Crabs running the wrong routes and terrible route running, often. It was pretty clear that Crabs and Alex Smith weren't on the page at all last season. In fact at times it seemed as if Alex was 2 or 3 pages ahead of Crabs. As the season went on Alex's only real dependable receiver he could count on was Vernon Davis, not just catching the ball consistently, but being were he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there. You can't blame a QB for throwing to whom he trusts. Was Crabs the leading 49ers WR? Yes, but by default, and he certainly wasn't our most important receiver. And you have to understand that Alex was brilliantly managed by JH & Co. He was playing within the offense. He did what the coaches wanted him to do. Sure the playcalls were conservative at times. But that wasn't all on Alex, or even mostly on Alex. The WR corps was quite horrible all season and Crabs was a big reason why. That's why JH and Baalkie made the moves they did at that one position. If Moss comes in and overtakes Crabs - which many here know I'm not a fan of Moss being a 9er anyway - the criticism of Crabs from me will be unending. And you can bet that if that happens Crabs will have to put up Megatron-like numbers to remain in the red & gold next season.

What I saw as underthrows were....underthrows. There were a handful of times when AS simply UNDERTHREW Crabtree. Not sure what other word you can use to describe a pass that isn't thrown far enough to hit a WR in stride. It happened 2-3 times in the Cleveland game IIRC.

This is the hilarity of AS homers...they'll throw anyone/everyone under the bus to make themselves feel better about Smith. Crabtree is a 1200 yard 10 TD WR on a passing offense with a top 12 QB. He's a GOOD WR playing on a conservative offense with a QB who does not pass the ball to his WRs that often.

Lets not forget that Crabtree led the 49ers in receptions and yards with 72-874 in 15 games. Yea he really sucks.
No camp for Smith and Crabtree for the last 3 years. That is why this camp is so important for the improvement of both Smith and Crabtree connection. The same reason Randy Moss is busting his a** for Harbaugh, so he can have a good connection with Alex Smith.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
That's not an absolute, fella. An absolute would be for me to say that "Crabtree is a # 2 and that's all he will ever be." That's an absolute. Right now, Crabtree is a # 2 wideout... that's just what he is. He may improve further to be more... that will be up to him. Learn something before you spout off.

I don't think the classifies as spouting off. If someone had said a few years ago "Alex Smith is what he is, a #2 QB. He doesn't have an arm, doesn't sit in the pocket etc." I think you would have "spouted off" as well.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
No camp for Smith and Crabtree for the last 3 years. That is why this camp is so important for the improvement of both Smith and Crabtree connection. The same reason Randy Moss is busting his a** for Harbaugh, so he can have a good connection with Alex Smith.

This, when the chemistry is off between a QB and WR the blame always falls on the QB because he didn't throw it to the right place. Sorry but in the NFL things are more complicated than "GO DEEP BRAH."
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
What you saw as underthrows most others saw Crabs running the wrong routes and terrible route running, often. It was pretty clear that Crabs and Alex Smith weren't on the page at all last season. In fact at times it seemed as if Alex was 2 or 3 pages ahead of Crabs. As the season went on Alex's only real dependable receiver he could count on was Vernon Davis, not just catching the ball consistently, but being were he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there. You can't blame a QB for throwing to whom he trusts. Was Crabs the leading 49ers WR? Yes, but by default, and he certainly wasn't our most important receiver. And you have to understand that Alex was brilliantly managed by JH & Co. He was playing within the offense. He did what the coaches wanted him to do. Sure the playcalls were conservative at times. But that wasn't all on Alex, or even mostly on Alex. The WR corps was quite horrible all season and Crabs was a big reason why. That's why JH and Baalkie made the moves they did at that one position. If Moss comes in and overtakes Crabs - which many here know I'm not a fan of Moss being a 9er anyway - the criticism of Crabs from me will be unending. And you can bet that if that happens Crabs will have to put up Megatron-like numbers to remain in the red & gold next season.

how do u know crab ran the wrong routes??
and in order for Crabtree to have Megatron like #'s, we must have a Staford like QB

but I'm sure Moss will help elevate the chances of having 17 tds passes in 16 games
Originally posted by fly15:
how do u know crab ran the wrong routes??
and in order for Crabtree to have Megatron like #'s, we must have a Staford like QB

but I'm sure Moss will help elevate the chances of having 17 tds passes in 16 games

How do you know he didnt?
Originally posted by Leathaface:
What I saw as underthrows were....underthrows. There were a handful of times when AS simply UNDERTHREW Crabtree. Not sure what other word you can use to describe a pass that isn't thrown far enough to hit a WR in stride. It happened 2-3 times in the Cleveland game IIRC.

This is the hilarity of AS homers...they'll throw anyone/everyone under the bus to make themselves feel better about Smith. Crabtree is a 1200 yard 10 TD WR on a passing offense with a top 12 QB. He's a GOOD WR playing on a conservative offense with a QB who does not pass the ball to his WRs that often.

Lets not forget that Crabtree led the 49ers in receptions and yards with 72-874 in 15 games. Yea he really sucks.

This is the hilarity of the AS haters...they'll throw him under the bus to make themselves feel better about how they perceive why a play didn't work out because no qb in the history of the game ever underthrows a receiver. I wonder why Smith and Vernon can connect on 75% of their passes including several clutch touch passes to win games, but the guy who misses training camp was amongst the league leaders in drops? I don't think Micheal sucks at all, but he is a bigger part of the equation than you seem to want to admit.
When you consider the accuracy of balls thrown to VD, and the fact that his hands are not quite Fitzgerald-like....

Gotta give props to Smithers.
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
When you consider the accuracy of balls thrown to VD, and the fact that his hands are not quite Fitzgerald-like....

Gotta give props to Smithers.

I think Alex over the years has learned to throw MORE accurately because of the poor-handed receivers we have had. He now has a better aim on exactly where to throw a pass... because he learned that he can't just put the ball in a roundabout area and expect his receivers to make the highlight catches away from their bodies as frequently as many other pro receivers. That goes along with his comments earlier on about how he "loves having a guy like Moss, who can just toss it up to"... who makes the tough catches look easy with his elite wing-span and skill.

"Stay healthy and committed, Randy !"


( will say that it does seem Crabtree is improving in this... as well as VD and having a young guy like KW who can snag some tough ones away from his body )
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
What you saw as underthrows most others saw Crabs running the wrong routes and terrible route running, often. It was pretty clear that Crabs and Alex Smith weren't on the page at all last season. In fact at times it seemed as if Alex was 2 or 3 pages ahead of Crabs. As the season went on Alex's only real dependable receiver he could count on was Vernon Davis, not just catching the ball consistently, but being were he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there. You can't blame a QB for throwing to whom he trusts. Was Crabs the leading 49ers WR? Yes, but by default, and he certainly wasn't our most important receiver. And you have to understand that Alex was brilliantly managed by JH & Co. He was playing within the offense. He did what the coaches wanted him to do. Sure the playcalls were conservative at times. But that wasn't all on Alex, or even mostly on Alex. The WR corps was quite horrible all season and Crabs was a big reason why. That's why JH and Baalkie made the moves they did at that one position. If Moss comes in and overtakes Crabs - which many here know I'm not a fan of Moss being a 9er anyway - the criticism of Crabs from me will be unending. And you can bet that if that happens Crabs will have to put up Megatron-like numbers to remain in the red & gold next season.

how do u know crab ran the wrong routes??
and in order for Crabtree to have Megatron like #'s, we must have a Staford like QB

but I'm sure Moss will help elevate the chances of having 17 tds passes in 16 games
I won't give a long dissertation on the finer points of route running, 2-3-5-7 step drops & timing, and how they relate to unsuccessful/successful plays. Most things about football cannot be understood unless you've played and/or a coach (not saying that you're not or haven't). But suffice it to say that to anyone really looking into the plays it becomes obvious where the mistake were on individual plays. No, Alex isn't Peyton Manning, but Peyton underthrows his WR's 2 or 3 times a game. Although Alex's mechanics is a work in progress, last season he really understood the offense and what JH and Roman wanted to do. In a timing offense under/overthrows, completions, incompletions, interceptions, and sacks are dictated heavily (but no completely) on the route running of the player the QB is throwing to, and many fans don't understand that. Last season I saw Alex release the ball before players got into their breaks more than any time in his career, and that's a testament of how he's been managed. JH's offense utilizes timing and design a lot to get players open. I can't tell you many times I'd watch Alex go back in his drops, release the ball before the player breaks (as he supposed to) only to see the player obviously break too early, too late, or outright run a pattern Alex simply wasn't expecting him to run, often resulting in a sack or worse. And almost 100% of the time that I watched it was a WR doing this, and the WR's most guilty of this were Crabs and Ginn. As the season went on not only did Alex Smith begin to loose faith in Crabs - and other WRs - but so did the coaching staff as evidenced by their increasingly more creative play design and plays designed to go to the TE's. As the season went on throws gone to Crabs became less timing based and more sit-down or set based.

For all his fault (and I've been on of his critics) the 2011 season was not a season in which the offense struggled because of the play of Alex Smith. This time, it was clearly on the WR's, hence the WR moves made by JH and Baalke. I've said before and I'll say it again: This is a make-or-break season for Crabs. And I wasn't the biggest fan of the Moss signing, in fact I still don't like it. But if Crabs looses his presumed #1 status to a 35 year old quitter who didn't even play last season the criticism from me will be harsh, long, and often.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:


Very nice post. Though I don't want to speak for you or others... I don't think posts like this are suggesting that Alex is flawless or blameless in every instance.

.. but it's the coaches' jobs on the line to determine how much blame goes and where to. Our offseason moves really make it pretty clear as to where our coaches assessed the blame... and I doubt that further elaboration on this needs to be explained.
That Titans' game highlights in 2009 was telling to me about Smith with his 3INTs. Those aren't necessarily inaccurate throws, 2 out of 3 of them hit the receivers hands. They were contested throws. If you noticed the DB is right there on each of them to contest the pass. Consequently they were tipped and/or intercepted. That one to Crabtree was late downfield, contested and picked. I think Smith learned from that. If it looks like the DB is close enough to contest it he won't throw it in most cases unless it's a critical conversion for a critical drive. I've seen him make some close contested throws but most of the time it's to someone he trust like VD and occasionally to Crabtree, and Morgan when he was here.

Hopefully he has a set of receivers he can trust this year to fight for those contested ones.

With all the rotating receivers last year yet he only has 5INTs. I have to think Harbaugh has something to do with this too. Wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh went through all the INTs that Smith ever had in the offseason. Then told Smith don't force it into a tight one with guys you aren't familiar with.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jul 11, 2012 at 8:19 AM ]