Replacing Delanie Walker... Yes or No?

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
walker is a backup, you should always try to bring in more talent than you already have. if we can get someone better to push VD even more and help him out why not? walker hasnt exactly lit the league on fire and his hands are suspect as well as his fumbalitis and his lack of size. if we can get someone taller with better hands why not?

this. people forget that VD is 28 and will be 29 by this time next year, I know he'll produce for years to come but we need to be ready with a successor ASAP. Also Walker will turn 28 in august so he's no spring chicken either.

Bringing in a 23(turns 24 in september) year old playmaker like Fleener will make our team better in the long run and make sure there is no fall off in skill.

Before I comment, I owe an apology to the forum.

My warning rate was bumped to 65% last night because I was doing a Clint Eastwood impersonation taking on some Jerry Rice doubters and I had a couple of beers and got out of hand. Ahem.

A few people got the comedy but I still got dinged.

That said, after watching video of Fleener I think it would be nuts for us to not go after him. Absolute phenom. Anyone disagree?

Wait, never mind, please don't disagree with me, I'll do the Clint Eastwood thing again and be at 80% warning level lol.

Originally posted by sfout:
this. people forget that VD is 28 and will be 29 by this time next year, I know he'll produce for years to come but we need to be ready with a successor ASAP. Also Walker will turn 28 in august so he's no spring chicken either.

Bringing in a 23(turns 24 in september) year old playmaker like Fleener will make our team better in the long run and make sure there is no fall off in skill.

i dont mind but your logic is flawed

there is a better prospect next year in Tyler Eifert

this year i say we go after a #1 WR becuase after this year moss will be gone (and he isnt a sinch to produce either at his age)

if we get fleener which wouldnt be the worst thing in the world we would have to rely on a rookie to have a big role next year because we will have to get one

anytime you have this much controversy over a backup you know he should stay.

Originally posted by nickbradley:
That doesn't look at catch rate. He's at 54% - so if you look at times targeted, he's terrible.

It also doesn't factor in that he was utilized as a receiver less than half of what VD was. He was used as a blocker.

Nice straw man argument. "Anyone who disagrees with me is making this mistake." You can revise history all you, but MANY zoners have taken issue with Walker's fumbles, inconsistent hands, and poor separation, and they have been doing so long before the run-up to this draft. Willingness to follow coaching is great, but it doesn't make him good. He's just the new Arnaz Battle. Neither of those guys was coached to run around and NOT get open. I like Walker, and I liked Battle, but failing to see how their job could be done better reflects either homerism or an agenda (perhaps to select a preferred WR?). It seems to me that you work just hard to run down our WRs, while mocking Fleener fans for critiquing Walker. It seems like you keep forgetting that disagreeing with you does not make a fellow poster less intelligent than you.

Fumbles? He had 0. And 3 TDs. being utilized half as much as VD. VD had 6 TDs and 3 Fum.

I love everyone sits here and complains about him not being a 3rd down guy, not able to put up massive games, game planning his defender so as to lessen the impact he (Walker) has on the game.

#10 in the league at converting for first downs. 6 catches 96 yds against New York. As a #2 TE, being utilized in the passing game HALF AS MUCH as the #1 TE.

HALF AS MUCH.

If the coaches didn't need him so much as a blocker, he would be putting up better numbers, plain and simple. Talk about gameplan, then think about who calls the plays when Walker is in to block. Then think about who calls the plays when he's in to pass. Then realize IT'S NOT HIM.

Originally posted by mkmasn:

Originally posted by nickbradley:
That doesn't look at catch rate. He's at 54% - so if you look at times targeted, he's terrible.

It also doesn't factor in that he was utilized as a receiver less than half of what VD was. He was used as a blocker.

Nice straw man argument. "Anyone who disagrees with me is making this mistake." You can revise history all you, but MANY zoners have taken issue with Walker's fumbles, inconsistent hands, and poor separation, and they have been doing so long before the run-up to this draft. Willingness to follow coaching is great, but it doesn't make him good. He's just the new Arnaz Battle. Neither of those guys was coached to run around and NOT get open. I like Walker, and I liked Battle, but failing to see how their job could be done better reflects either homerism or an agenda (perhaps to select a preferred WR?). It seems to me that you work just hard to run down our WRs, while mocking Fleener fans for critiquing Walker. It seems like you keep forgetting that disagreeing with you does not make a fellow poster less intelligent than you.

Fumbles? He had 0. And 3 TDs. being utilized half as much as VD. VD had 6 TDs and 3 Fum.

I love everyone sits here and complains about him not being a 3rd down guy, not able to put up massive games, game planning his defender so as to lessen the impact he (Walker) has on the game.

#10 in the league at converting for first downs. 6 catches 96 yds against New York. As a #2 TE, being utilized in the passing game HALF AS MUCH as the #1 TE.

HALF AS MUCH.

If the coaches didn't need him so much as a blocker, he would be putting up better numbers, plain and simple. Talk about gameplan, then think about who calls the plays when Walker is in to block. Then think about who calls the plays when he's in to pass. Then realize IT'S NOT HIM.

You know that Walker has been a Niner more than one season and that he has literally fumbled away games before, right? And you know that a 54% percent catch rate means he only caught half of the passes thrown to him, right? And that he is neither fast enough (play speed) or big enough to pull coverage or gain separation against single coverage, right? No one is discussing why he doesn't get more throws, because we are more upset about what often happens when the ball gets thrown to him. Okaythanksbuhbye

Originally posted by gold49er2183:
anytime you have this much controversy over a backup you know he should stay.

I disagree completely. People wanted Bono to start over Young. That didn't make Bono a keeper. People said Thomas Clayton and Kory sheets were the future. They were not missed here, nor were they productive elsewhere. Zak Keasey was a rockstar in the Zone. Haven't seen him in a while.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I disagree completely. People wanted Bono to start over Young. That didn't make Bono a keeper. People said Thomas Clayton and Kory sheets were the future. They were not missed here, nor were they productive elsewhere. Zak Keasey was a rockstar in the Zone. Haven't seen him in a while.

Nostalgia, people want to hold on to every f**king relic like its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Walker is a very good backup TE on a team that runs primarily 3 WR, 1 TE sets, he leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to running 2 TE sets regularly because he's so damned one-dimensional, when he's in the game, its basically tipping your hat to teams that he's in to block and if he goes out on a route...so what, stick a safety on him and most of the time he won't be able to get any sort of separation anyways.

Niners must improve their third down and red zone conversions. End of story. They need Fleener.

Harbaugh loves TE's and will have plenty to do for Walker.

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:
Niners must improve their third down and red zone conversions. End of story. They need Fleener.

Harbaugh loves TE's and will have plenty to do for Walker.

Not even necessarily Fleener but when you run 2 TE sets as often as the 49ers do, you need both those guys to represent potential threats, even someone to develop with a strong receiving prowess such as a Green or Egnew would be a boost.

Delanie is still great, I say keep him. I've read some posts by other fans talking about a 3 tight end set with Davis, Walker and Fleener. That could be interesting to see. Going from a running play, changing the play to spread them out and airing the ball out instead, defenses would have a hard time with that.

Originally posted by slidingswhiz:
Delanie is still great, I say keep him. I've read some posts by other fans talking about a 3 tight end set with Davis, Walker and Fleener. That could be interesting to see. Going from a running play, changing the play to spread them out and airing the ball out instead, defenses would have a hard time with that.

i do not think he is great but he is more than respectable and if you had three tight ends with davis walker and fleener we would be in good shape. as has been said before, the niners will probably keep three and unless walker gets outplayed and outworked he will be on the team.If its not fleener in the first( should he get taken by someone else) then i am pretty sure someone in the middle of the draft will be more than able to make more plays and catch more balls than walker

........"Anyone who disagrees with me is making this mistake"......It seems like you keep forgetting that disagreeing with you does not make a fellow poster less intelligent than you......

Now that's a true "straw man" arguments. Nowhere in my post did I even hint that I didn't want anyone to agree with me. In fact, I fully expect to be disagreed with by most on this topic given how many posts seem to turn to draft Flenner in the 1st. But I have no clue how you can say "Anyone who disagrees with me is making this mistake", and then put them in quotes as if I made that statement. That's at best dishonest.

MANY zoners have taken issue with Walker's fumbles, inconsistent hands, and poor separation, and they have been doing so long before the run-up to this draft.

(Man that sounds like Crabs, but I digress.) Fine. But we must remember that Walker is not a starter, so he will have inconsistencies. But his overall production has been more than decent. However, if we want to replace Walker (and I still don't see how that's a priority for this team) we certainly don't need to burn our 1st pick to do so.

He's just the new Arnaz Battle.

Now that's just a horribly unfair comparison to make given that they play different positions, are used in entirely different ways, and that - and correct me if I'm wrong - Battle was a starter, at least for a time. This team uses Walker far more than we ever used Battle.

I like Walker, and I liked Battle, but failing to see how their job could be done better reflects either homerism or an agenda (perhaps to select a preferred WR?)

A specious argument to boot, huh. Look, I've made no bones about how I'd like the 49ers to use the 1st pick. And on this topic I've maintained that there's no need to replace Walker, and if we do it's certainly not unnecessary to do so in the first because there is talent as late as the 4th that can come in and quite effectively replace Walker as a TE. Being able to replace a player don't mean that it's the best thing to do. Walker brings a lot of things to the this team that are not easy to find. In Walker we are getting several players in one. Now, if you want Fleener that's fine - I disagree, but that's fine. Just say that and be done with it. But to throw D. Walker's contributions to this team under the bus to justify that desire is just wrong, in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by slidingswhiz:
Delanie is still great, I say keep him. I've read some posts by other fans talking about a 3 tight end set with Davis, Walker and Fleener. That could be interesting to see. Going from a running play, changing the play to spread them out and airing the ball out instead, defenses would have a hard time with that.

And there is the big picture. Defenses could get smashed in the running game or just have mismatches all over the field with the combination of those 3 TEs, Gore, and Moss/Crabtree.

A WR to develop for the longterm future could be picked up in rounds 2-4, as well as a G/C, and OLB.

If Delanie is willing to stay next season at a reasonable price, then we should be able to carry him, Davis, and Fleener. I don't see why people are locked in a it's Fleener or Walker argument.

People just love fleener because of his size and the fact that he's from stanford.

I think you could add another big playmaking TE. But because we're in no hurry to get a #1 because we do have Vernon and Delanie I see no reason to spend a first rounder on a tight end. You want size? Why couldn't we get someone like Egnew at a much lesser cost? That's a very baalke/harbaugh type of pick to avoid the guy everyone expects us to get and instead draft someone very similar later.

That gives us the ability to go BPA with the first at a position that doesn't have as much depth in the mid/late rounds.