Gregg Williams wanted to seriously injure all our players (audio on first post)

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Off the field, you can be as friendly as you want, but on the field there's a war going on. And again, cheating happens all the time to certain degrees (holding, pushing WRs off-route, exaggerating snap counts, etc.). Yes, this was a few levels above that, but let's be serious here. When Williams was saying "take the head out," he wasn't saying to chop someone's head off. He was looking to concuss someone so they either couldn't play or would play impaired.

IMO, the only difference here is that the coach BRAZENLY AND OPENLY directed this (and added the bounty), whereas most teams try to do this (take out their opponent's best player) as part of their game-plan. I'm not defending the openness or the bounty aspect of it in any way, I think it was stupid. But I will defend their desire to punish and take out certain guys if/where possible, because frankly, that's football.

I'm trying to look at this objectively even though it effected my team. Because if the shoe was on the other foot (say we placed the bounties), I think 49er fans (some, but of course not all) would be looking at it very differently.

and you should expect this every single game....its the only way to beat it. donte whitner showed them WTF was up. they thought they were coming in and going to dominate physically and be the better defense( there isnt one btw, people just need to admit it). our guys were more mentally prepared and determined to be the better and physical team, or they just are in general lol. thats how you beat it, you take it out of them before they even have a chance to put it on you. every game is a war, it needs to be religious that you expect players to try to do this to you.

Originally posted by kodiak9er:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Off the field, you can be as friendly as you want, but on the field there's a war going on. And again, cheating happens all the time to certain degrees (holding, pushing WRs off-route, exaggerating snap counts, etc.). Yes, this was a few levels above that, but let's be serious here. When Williams was saying "take the head out," he wasn't saying to chop someone's head off. He was looking to concuss someone so they either couldn't play or would play impaired.

IMO, the only difference here is that the coach BRAZENLY AND OPENLY directed this (and added the bounty), whereas most teams try to do this (take out their opponent's best player) as part of their game-plan. I'm not defending the openness or the bounty aspect of it in any way, I think it was stupid. But I will defend their desire to punish and take out certain guys if/where possible, because frankly, that's football.

I'm trying to look at this objectively even though it effected my team. Because if the shoe was on the other foot (say we placed the bounties), I think 49er fans (some, but of course not all) would be looking at it very differently.

and you should expect this every single game....its the only way to beat it. donte whitner showed them WTF was up. they thought they were coming in and going to dominate physically and be the better defense( there isnt one btw, people just need to admit it). our guys were more mentally prepared and determined to be the better and physical team, or they just are in general lol. thats how you beat it, you take it out of them before they even have a chance to put it on you. every game is a war, it needs to be religious that you expect players to try to do this to you.

Amen brother.

Originally posted by sf49ersx11:

Originally posted by ghostrider:
Come at us bro.

FO REAL

Some teams talked about it in their meeting room. Then some teams just go out and do it on the field

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by sf49ersx11:

Originally posted by ghostrider:
Come at us bro.

FO REAL

Some teams talked about it in their meeting room. Then some teams just go out and do it on the field

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by sf49ersx11:

Originally posted by ghostrider:
Come at us bro.

FO REAL

Some teams talked about it in their meeting room. Then some teams just go out and do it on the field

LLLLEEETTTTTSSSSS GGGGOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

f**k Gregg Williams

Originally posted by kodiak9er:
and you should expect this every single game....its the only way to beat it. donte whitner showed them WTF was up. they thought they were coming in and going to dominate physically and be the better defense( there isnt one btw, people just need to admit it). our guys were more mentally prepared and determined to be the better and physical team, or they just are in general lol. thats how you beat it, you take it out of them before they even have a chance to put it on you. every game is a war, it needs to be religious that you expect players to try to do this to you.

Clean hit to prevent a TD and send a message...different than a "to do list" of injuring opponents. Every player expects to be hit hard on every play, but they can at least hope the folks in charge of the game keep the cheap shots and illegal intent down to a minimum. There is not a QB alive who doesn't expect to be blasted any time a D player has a shot. But going after an ACL when that is specifically against the rules? Above and beyond the tolerance level. Williams was very stupid to explicitly mention specific injuries and players...took any doubt away from his intent to ignore the rules.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
IMO, if you're not cheating you're not trying. Good that these fools got caught, and they got caught because they were so brazen/open about it. But my bottom line is, I want my team(s) to be this aggressive and win at all costs (this is a violent sport where winning trumps all, even sportsmanship and civility), just be discreet about it...and don't get caught.

pushing the limits of the rules is one thing, outright cheating is another--just like the realities of a violent sport is one thing, and intentionally injuring players is another.

True, but it's a cut-throat sport where losing isn't tolerated. I guess I'm old school and know that this kinda stuff used to happen pretty regularly, cuz at the end of the day, these are MEN playing a MAN'S sport, not little girls playing hopscotch.

yeah, i get it. i basically agree, but even in a violent sport of manly men there can be good sportsmanship. you can be both a gentleman and a brute. i don't want to root for a cheater, either.

Off the field, you can be as friendly as you want, but on the field there's a war going on. And again, cheating happens all the time to certain degrees (holding, pushing WRs off-route, exaggerating snap counts, etc.). Yes, this was a few levels above that, but let's be serious here. When Williams was saying "take the head out," he wasn't saying to chop someone's head off. He was looking to concuss someone so they either couldn't play or would play impaired.

IMO, the only difference here is that the coach BRAZENLY AND OPENLY directed this (and added the bounty), whereas most teams try to do this (take out their opponent's best player) as part of their game-plan. I'm not defending the openness or the bounty aspect of it in any way, I think it was stupid. But I will defend their desire to punish and take out certain guys if/where possible, because frankly, that's football.

its not a war, its a game.

but yeah, the issue here is the openness, the flaunting of the breaking of the rules, how systemic it was. i too have no problem in teams playing physical and targeting weaknesses. and i don't actually know if i would classify the bounties as "cheating" (except as far as salary structures go), its just un-sportsmanlike, and, ultimately, they're just being made an example of. they brought it upon themselves and this should help keep the game "clean."

as far as cheating, I think there's a difference in WR's pushing off, or Harbaugh's shifts designed to get guys offsides, and, say, spying on your opponents practices. its like lies and white lies, I guess, and I agree that a "white lie" cheat is part of sport.

Tell those guys on the field that it's "a game"....they would beg to differ. Technically you're correct (especially with respect to war, killing and dying), but calling it a mere game is not a true reflection of what's happening on and off the field.

i know they take it seriously, as they should, but I hope they have some perspective on it. Ultimately that's what this whole scandal is about: recognizing that most of these guys lives will be lived not playing football.

LOL he said outside ACL dumbass. It's your LCL

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

Originally posted by Bryant4everYoung:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

Originally posted by Bryant4everYoung:
This was an NFL coach, who was caught red handed, what's so hard to get. Just because we don't hear about this side of football doesn't justify it or make it right.

You guys are missing my point, I agree he was dead wrong and I agree he should be banned for life. Im blasting the media for jumping on this audio about the Saints calling out specific players with specific injuries after the fact. The Giants were given a pass against us when hurting a player actually affected the outcome. The media is in a frenzy over it TODAY because its the hot topic, if they REALLY cared about it, this would have been the topic the two weeks leading up to the SB. The Giants did exactly what the Saints did and admitted to it right after the game. What was the difference? The difference is them jumping on the gravy train for ratings.

No, I get your point, but what I'm saying there's a clear difference between a player saying he was targeting another player and a coach having a systematic injury reward program, because this cannot be put in the "heresay" category, per the evidence presented. I agree, the media will unnecessarily have a field day with this, but the giants got a pass because it was something someone said that could not be proven to be a long running intricately designed program being investigated for 3 years.

I agree BY, the difference between the two is that the Saints were wrong and got caught. Other teams do this though...not anymore though. This will be the first topic on day 1 of training camp.across the league

One thing is for sure, I'm glad this off-season there's no Favre watch talk, I hope..

Originally posted by Bryant4everYoung:
One thing is for sure, I'm glad this off-season there's no Favre watch talk, I hope..

...I almost miss it.....almost. The one benefit of the NY media blowing their loads all over this story is that it does not involve Tebow or the Jets. The sports talk shows here have been UNBEARABLE! I live one town away from the Jets HQ in Florham Park. Its been a circus over here. This season is gonna be nuts, Jets fans already have the suicide hot lines on speed dial. You should hear these guys calling in, classic!!

Wait! So, you're saying football is an intentionally violent game where players try to hurt opposing players and coaches encourage players through coaching and speeches to hurt opposing players?!?! Unbelieveable! I refuse to believe this!

You mean all those highlight reel hits that swell viewship for big networks, ESPN and the NFL Network, swell ad money that ultimately swell players bank accounts, actually takes a physical toll on the player getting hit?!?! This is horrible! I'm shocked!

What should we do? I know, let's fake outrage. Quietly rejoice that it was not our team that got caught. Single out the unlucky few caught. Act like it's not one of the pillars of the entire product. Disproportionately punish the few caught. Get the media to turn off the spotlight. Keep indirect bounties (players rewarded for "intimidating" play with big contracts) of course and indirect motivational speeches directed toward "physical" "beat people up" play, of course.

I could get it if this were janists complaining about the violence of football and the encouragement of violence. They at least have a theoretically non-hypocritical platform from which to judge this media circus. But I don't get how football fans can act shocked / appalled by the very nature of the sport they claim to love....

Purposely trying to take a guys ACL out isnt football

Originally posted by Robert:
Wait! So, you're saying football is an intentionally violent game where players try to hurt opposing players and coaches encourage players through coaching and speeches to hurt opposing players?!?! Unbelieveable! I refuse to believe this!

You mean all those highlight reel hits that swell viewship for big networks, ESPN and the NFL Network, swell ad money that ultimately swell players bank accounts, actually takes a physical toll on the player getting hit?!?! This is horrible! I'm shocked!

What should we do? I know, let's fake outrage. Quietly rejoice that it was not our team that got caught. Single out the unlucky few caught. Act like it's not one of the pillars of the entire product. Disproportionately punish the few caught. Get the media to turn off the spotlight. Keep indirect bounties (players rewarded for "intimidating" play with big contracts) of course and indirect motivational speeches directed toward "physical" "beat people up" play, of course.

I could get it if this were janists complaining about the violence of football and the encouragement of violence. They at least have a theoretically non-hypocritical platform from which to judge this media circus. But I don't get how football fans can act shocked / appalled by the very nature of the sport they claim to love....

Just stop it already. We know football is violent but you have to play in the rules and paying people to intentionally hurt people is not in the rules.

I wonder if our players have heard these audio clips.