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If Kaepernick is going to be the long-term answer at QB anyway, why keep Smith?

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
#3 please!

if we sign alex for anything over 3 years than i see Harbaugh thinking Kap is a bust. I mean he spoke so highly of him when we drafted him and now he hasnt made a peep about him. Maybe thats just Harbaugh's way of unleashing his secret weapons.

If Kap sits 2 more years behind Manning...that would be very beneficial to his overall mentality and mix that with his physical abilities and you got yourself a probowl elite QB. This is of course only possible if Kap really is the QB harbaugh said he was when we drafted him a year ago

My thinking is along those lines. If Coach Harbaugh thinks CK is the real deal why let him sit around for 2 or 3 years. As far as Alex is concerned, why should he take less money then a Buffalo qb that hasn't done anything. Who knows, someone may give Alex a better deal, then things could get very interesting.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
If Kaep is going to be the long-term answer at QB anyway, why keep Smith?

Inspired by the thread at NinersNation.com, if Colin Kaepernick is going to be the long-term guy at QB for the 49ers -- evident by the rumored of 2 or 3 year contract offers for Alex Smith -- why are we not going after Peyton Manning? If we're going to sign a guy that can start for 2 years and then hand it over to Kaep, Manning would be a better choice, right?

Of course, this is conceding that Kaep *is* the long-term answer. Alex Smith is young enough to have another 8 - 10 years in him...if so, why is the franchise offering 2 or 3 year contracts? Is it because they don't think he's the answer? There's a chance that the 49ers and Smith agent Tom Condon are miles apart and nobody wants to talk about it. If the 49ers are putting a 3-year, $25m offer on the table, and Condon wants a Ryan Fitzpatrick-esque 6-year, $60m deal -- and Kevin Kolb and Matt Cassel got similar 6-year deals, *what* are the chances he walks?

Door #1: Alex Smith gets a long-term deal, Kaep remains the backup, and we trade Kaep down the line or Kaep takes over if Smith regresses or gets hurt

Door #2: Alex Smith gets a 2 or 3 year contract and loses his job to Kaepernick in 2013 if he doesn't have a pro bowl season in 2012

Door #3: Sign Peyton Manning to a 2-year, $30m contract with the 49ers. Colin Kaepernick starts in 2014

Door #4: Let Alex Smith go *and* pass on Peyton Manning. Hand the job to Kaep in '12, sign some big name WRs -- and see what happens.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/7/2851196/49ers-qb-position-alex-smith-colin-kaepernick-peyton-manning


Originally posted by nickbradley:
If Kaep is going to be the long-term answer at QB anyway, why keep Smith?

Inspired by the thread at NinersNation.com, if Colin Kaepernick is going to be the long-term guy at QB for the 49ers -- evident by the rumored of 2 or 3 year contract offers for Alex Smith -- why are we not going after Peyton Manning? If we're going to sign a guy that can start for 2 years and then hand it over to Kaep, Manning would be a better choice, right?

Of course, this is conceding that Kaep *is* the long-term answer. Alex Smith is young enough to have another 8 - 10 years in him...if so, why is the franchise offering 2 or 3 year contracts? Is it because they don't think he's the answer? There's a chance that the 49ers and Smith agent Tom Condon are miles apart and nobody wants to talk about it. If the 49ers are putting a 3-year, $25m offer on the table, and Condon wants a Ryan Fitzpatrick-esque 6-year, $60m deal -- and Kevin Kolb and Matt Cassel got similar 6-year deals, *what* are the chances he walks?

Door #1: Alex Smith gets a long-term deal, Kaep remains the backup, and we trade Kaep down the line or Kaep takes over if Smith regresses or gets hurt

Door #2: Alex Smith gets a 2 or 3 year contract and loses his job to Kaepernick in 2013 if he doesn't have a pro bowl season in 2012

Door #3: Sign Peyton Manning to a 2-year, $30m contract with the 49ers. Colin Kaepernick starts in 2014

Door #4: Let Alex Smith go *and* pass on Peyton Manning. Hand the job to Kaep in '12, sign some big name WRs -- and see what happens.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/7/2851196/49ers-qb-position-alex-smith-colin-kaepernick-peyton-manning
Agreed. Sign Manning and when Manning is done we got Colin.
Originally posted by SundayTicket:
you got one side going... "look at past years" and you got the other side saying "yeah a new coach for the offense every year, and a new coach for the entire team every 2 years"...

Questionable talent surrounding him at times too. Not to mention the horribly mishandled shoulder injury (for which when Smith played he received a lot of flack, undeservedly).
Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Originally posted by SundayTicket:
you got one side going... "look at past years" and you got the other side saying "yeah a new coach for the offense every year, and a new coach for the entire team every 2 years"...

Questionable talent surrounding him at times too. Not to mention the horribly mishandled shoulder injury (for which when Smith played he received a lot of flack, undeservedly).

That and Smith didn't play for like two of the six years so the team being bad isn't completely on him.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
If Kaep is going to be the long-term answer at QB anyway, why keep Smith?

Inspired by the thread at NinersNation.com, if Colin Kaepernick is going to be the long-term guy at QB for the 49ers -- evident by the rumored of 2 or 3 year contract offers for Alex Smith -- why are we not going after Peyton Manning? If we're going to sign a guy that can start for 2 years and then hand it over to Kaep, Manning would be a better choice, right?

Of course, this is conceding that Kaep *is* the long-term answer. Alex Smith is young enough to have another 8 - 10 years in him...if so, why is the franchise offering 2 or 3 year contracts? Is it because they don't think he's the answer? There's a chance that the 49ers and Smith agent Tom Condon are miles apart and nobody wants to talk about it. If the 49ers are putting a 3-year, $25m offer on the table, and Condon wants a Ryan Fitzpatrick-esque 6-year, $60m deal -- and Kevin Kolb and Matt Cassel got similar 6-year deals, *what* are the chances he walks?

Door #1: Alex Smith gets a long-term deal, Kaep remains the backup, and we trade Kaep down the line or Kaep takes over if Smith regresses or gets hurt

Door #2: Alex Smith gets a 2 or 3 year contract and loses his job to Kaepernick in 2013 if he doesn't have a pro bowl season in 2012

Door #3: Sign Peyton Manning to a 2-year, $30m contract with the 49ers. Colin Kaepernick starts in 2014

Door #4: Let Alex Smith go *and* pass on Peyton Manning. Hand the job to Kaep in '12, sign some big name WRs -- and see what happens.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/7/2851196/49ers-qb-position-alex-smith-colin-kaepernick-peyton-manning


Wayne Brady I'll take door #4 please. My reasons for this are: we can pick up a cheaper vet than Alex who is just as capable of managing the team if Kaep is not ready, more cap room to fill other areas of need, I think Kaep will be ready, his athletic abilities can help carry him while he is still learning(cam newton, Michael Vick, randall Cunningham)he has a better team around him than all the rookie qbs that were thrown into the fire and had decent to successful first seasons.
Originally posted by longtime49erfan:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
Originally posted by ImaMod:
There is a very simple question to this answer.

Because Smith is the short - term answer


Short term, maybe long term, maybe no term is Seattle offers him a ton of money and allows him to be the OC.

I assume you are referring to Peyton Manning and not Alex Smith.

Manning could care less about the money. Wherever he goes, he will receive a LOT of money. A few million here or there won't be what decides his next team for him. I suspect he will end up in Miami, or perhaps Washington. But I doubt he will go to Seattle.

Tongue was planted firmly in cheek. All this speculation is just that. Baalke out-did all of our expectations last year and Harbaugh took those players to 14-4. So I will be glad to wait and see what they do but it is fun to read all the hype.
I would offer smith back up money. There is no reason to lock up starter money in this guy for more than two years. Maybe a decent signing bonus with a decent first year salary but the money should fall off of the table at that point. I wouldn't be surprised to see CK starting by mid season if they are the only two QB options. CK has a much higher ceiling than alex. CK might not end up as a better qb but he has more potential than alex to perform at a much higher level.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by daragon:
This is going to get interesting, but I believe Alex signs for a 3 to 4 year contract. I don't really think the length of the contract really matters too much. Its more of a statement, and I believe its a statement that Alex would like to hear from the Niners.

A statement contract for Alex would be what mediocre QBs Fitzpatrick, Kolb, and Cassel all got: 6-years, about $60m

none of them are better than Alex Smith, so anything short of that would be a slap in the face.


Alex is not better than any of them , he only had one good year by whos standard only our team ? they keep saying he had 60% or somthing like compleition because the HC and the OC did not let him throw the ball around and alex would hold on to the ball untill the reciver is wide open ! always throwing behind the wr never in stride the too long TD to VD were cuz of vd broke tackles or the two D plyers colided with each other .

I would rather move on. than hav a half ass qb starting for us , we got used to medicore play we have not had a 300 yards game all year ? come on man this s**t if it was not for our D and special team we would be up s**t you know what. lets move on.
Originally posted by fister30:
I would offer smith back up money. There is no reason to lock up starter money in this guy for more than two years. Maybe a decent signing bonus with a decent first year salary but the money should fall off of the table at that point. I wouldn't be surprised to see CK starting by mid season if they are the only two QB options. CK has a much higher ceiling than alex. CK might not end up as a better qb but he has more potential than alex to perform at a much higher level.

Thank you, for not getting caught up in the hype. We are talking about a game manager here, at his best I think Alex could become a Matt Hasslebeck. At his worst, well we've already seen that and it ain't pretty. Don't mean to bash the guy, lets at least keep it in perspective though. While I don't think Alex is a bad qb and I think he can improve, I think last season was flirting with as good as he will get. Kaepernick we don't know how good he can be, so let's find out sooner than later to see if we need to go in another direction.
[ Edited by Irish40Niner on Mar 8, 2012 at 7:51 AM ]
Originally posted by SundayTicket:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I don't thing Smith's agent lets him sign for anything not comparable to Fitzpatrick/Kolb money. These 2 dudes haven't busted a grape and folks expect Smith to sign for chump change after leading the team to the NFC championship. This is not an easy negotiation.

you got one side going... "look at past years" and you got the other side saying "yeah a new coach for the offense every year, and a new coach for the entire team every 2 years"...

Exactly. And if I'm Smith I'm bringing in tape of Kolb and Fitzpatrick and throwing it on. Then I want Baalke to explain to me how I can't get a contract better than these dudes. Fair or not those 2 guys contracts have reset the market value. Hypothetically speaking let's say in practice and in the film room CK struggled to the point where Smith and the coaching staff realize he won't be ready to start this year. That would give Smith even more leverage. Just so many things behind the scenes that could be going on that's making this tougher than expected. And still the question remains that if the team truly believes in Smith then why would they have a problem matching either of those guys contracts?
Originally posted by Humboldt9er:
ive got alot of respect for jh right now. if he dumps smith and starts kaep....id lose it. you guys should too. we waited this long for a.s. to come along. its his first year in the same offence..what do we have to lose? i beleive smith will be in the prowbowl this year. have faith. kaep isnt the awnser.

Wow! I agreed with pretty much everything you wrote. Until you said CK7 is not the answer. I see your smoking the Humoldt imports as well! CK7 has sat one year on the bench you have no idea how he'll perform. He's a highly talented young QB and you are saying he's not the answer. Yet AS has played 7years with only one descent season and you're sayng he's the savior, hahaha! I promise you this much CK7 will get us to a NFC championship a lot sooner than AS. Dude axe your hopes for AS going to the pro bowl. The closest he'll come to that is being Harbaugh's caddy during a golf match in Hawaii. 1 for 13 on third down in the championship game? Steve Young and Jerry Rice said it best. "The majority of that falls on the QB". If AS starts next year, I pray he does well. I hope he throws for 4,000yds 38tds and brings home title #6... But I'm not holding my breathe. Alexcuses are as dead as Whitney Huston
  • sfout
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Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by SundayTicket:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I don't thing Smith's agent lets him sign for anything not comparable to Fitzpatrick/Kolb money. These 2 dudes haven't busted a grape and folks expect Smith to sign for chump change after leading the team to the NFC championship. This is not an easy negotiation.

you got one side going... "look at past years" and you got the other side saying "yeah a new coach for the offense every year, and a new coach for the entire team every 2 years"...

Exactly. And if I'm Smith I'm bringing in tape of Kolb and Fitzpatrick and throwing it on. Then I want Baalke to explain to me how I can't get a contract better than these dudes. Fair or not those 2 guys contracts have reset the market value. Hypothetically speaking let's say in practice and in the film room CK struggled to the point where Smith and the coaching staff realize he won't be ready to start this year. That would give Smith even more leverage. Just so many things behind the scenes that could be going on that's making this tougher than expected. And still the question remains that if the team truly believes in Smith then why would they have a problem matching either of those guys contracts?

This is why I still think there is an outside shot that he walks. If we are only offering him a 3 year $24M deal(with what? Maybe 8M guaranteed?) I wouldn't be surprised if any of the supposed 12 teams that contacted Manning's agent Tom Condon, who coincidently represents Alex as well and says hey we'll do a 5 year $50M deal. Favorites to do so IMHO are Seattle, Jacksonville, and Kansas - they all have very unsettled QB situations and amazing running games and fairly good defenses at least when everyone is healthy.

Manning is reportedly going to pick a team before the week is out, meaning he'll be on a team before free agency actually starts, the 11 teams that lose the Peyton Bidding War will immediately look for plan B and IMHO after Matt Flynn, Alex Smith is the best QB who could be on the market, personally I think Alex is a better bet then Flynn, 2 games in 4 years while learning the offense and gelling with the WRs could greatly inflate his perceived ability I believe his 2 games showed skill but were more a product of the system, just like a bunch of people joked that Rodgers is a system QB because a backup could play so well.

Flynn will get over paid, he will get a Kolb/Cassel contract and that will only increase Alex's and Condon's desire to get him paid in a similar manner. Teams will come calling, our fan base is jaded to Alex's abilities because of the past 6 years but dont be surprised if/when he gets paid at least $40million on a long term deal, whether it is by us or a Manning/Flynn loser who wants a quality QB.
[ Edited by sfout on Mar 8, 2012 at 8:18 AM ]
Kaep will be fine if Alex walks. Athletic qbs usually always have good first and second seasons off of talent alone. It it is up to the coaching staff (which I think we have a great one in place) to further develop them into good qbs that play within the framework of an offense. The problem with these types of qbs is coaches use them to win games without developing their qb skills. Examples: Cunningham in philly, Vick in atl, and V. Young in ten. All were used for their talent and not developed, with our coaching staff that will not happen. I believe Kaep has the ability to duplicate or surpass Alex's last season numbers in his first season as a starter.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by SundayTicket:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I don't thing Smith's agent lets him sign for anything not comparable to Fitzpatrick/Kolb money. These 2 dudes haven't busted a grape and folks expect Smith to sign for chump change after leading the team to the NFC championship. This is not an easy negotiation.

you got one side going... "look at past years" and you got the other side saying "yeah a new coach for the offense every year, and a new coach for the entire team every 2 years"...

Exactly. And if I'm Smith I'm bringing in tape of Kolb and Fitzpatrick and throwing it on. Then I want Baalke to explain to me how I can't get a contract better than these dudes. Fair or not those 2 guys contracts have reset the market value. Hypothetically speaking let's say in practice and in the film room CK struggled to the point where Smith and the coaching staff realize he won't be ready to start this year. That would give Smith even more leverage. Just so many things behind the scenes that could be going on that's making this tougher than expected. And still the question remains that if the team truly believes in Smith then why would they have a problem matching either of those guys contracts?

This is why I still think there is an outside shot that he walks. If we are only offering him a 3 year $24M deal(with what? Maybe 8M guaranteed?) I wouldn't be surprised if any of the supposed 12 teams that contacted Manning's agent Tom Condon, who coincidently represents Alex as well and says hey we'll do a 5 year $50M deal. Favorites to do so IMHO are Seattle, Jacksonville, and Kansas - they all have very unsettled QB situations and amazing running games and fairly good defenses at least when everyone is healthy.

Manning is reportedly going to pick a team before the week is out, meaning he'll be on a team before free agency actually starts, the 11 teams that lose the Peyton Bidding War will immediately look for plan B and IMHO after Matt Flynn, Alex Smith is the best QB who could be on the market, personally I think Alex is a better bet then Flynn, 2 games in 4 years while learning the offense and gelling with the WRs could greatly inflate his perceived ability I believe his 2 games showed skill but were more a product of the system, just like a bunch of people joked that Rodgers is a system QB because a backup could play so well.

Flynn will get over paid, he will get a Kolb/Cassel contract and that will only increase Alex's and Condon's desire to get him paid in a similar manner. Teams will come calling, our fan base is jaded to Alex's abilities because of the past 6 years but dont be surprised if/when he gets paid at least $40million on a long term deal, whether it is by us or a Manning/Flynn loser who wants a quality QB.
Good points. After Peyton Smith is the best free agent qb on the market. Just seems like Flynn has the hot name so somebody will overpay for him. It sounds good that we all think no other team is interested in Smith but in reality that's probably not true.

And let's be real Smith and Condon have accommodated the Niners salary wise as Smith's previous play wasn't up to par. He took a pay cut to his original deal and took a pretty cheap deal to stay with the team for this year. So why wouldn't they both expect a much better deal based on this year's performance? they keep saying they want me here and that they aren't interested in Peyton. Well if that's the case lock him up long term with a fair market value contract. Most seem to think he's not worth more than 8 million a year. I really don't think so either, but if that what the market dictates then you gotta pay to play. But it will interesting to see what the team is really offering b/c that really tells you a lot.

So I'm wondering if the front office believes that Smith would rather choose to come back to SF for 8 million a year vs taking 10 million from another team.

Then again we all could be wrong about these figures.
Originally posted by sfout:
I didn't read the 4th option all the way. That one suggests him starting in 2012, the other 3 say 2013. Yes I agree, history of 2nd round QBs is not good and if we want to give Kaep a fair shot then he needs at least 2 maybe 3 years to acclimate.

You are a guy who reassures webzone fans that CK7 is a better prospect to win than Alex and most other options. Any and every CK7 thread, You are on every single one of them. Knocking him and trying to convince yourself that he's a bust. Hahaha obviously you have some high levels of infatuation with Kaps. Why get on his threads? You keep telling people he's no good, they actually wanted Dalton, he needs 3more years. Well guess what? His college stats speak exceptional! Dalton never was there guy, Never! Watch the espn and NFL network draft on youtube. Also watch the press confernace after they drafted Colin. JH personnaly went to Nevada and had a private work out with the kid. The 49ers didn't trade up with Denver until Cincy took Ginger Dalton, Ok! Baalke and Harbaugh are in Love with the kid. You keep mentioning Dalton if they wanted Andy they would have got him! The 49ers never said Aldon was there man the whole time. But they said that about CK7! So you have to believe there word, pal! If CK7 is no good than don't get on his threads anymore, why waist your time? If you continue to get on CK7 threads then we all know he is a threat to be something great