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Hypothetical, if the Niners draft Fleener at #30, would Delanie Walker have any trade valu

Originally posted by franklinfan:
How much of the cap are you willing to but into the TE position.?.Ithink Walkers contract is up next yr..Won't be cheap..and you still want 5 recievers,Something has to give somewhere in all this.

As much as I really like Walker, your observation about the cap touches on something that I've noticed over the past few years. It seems that decent TEs are going the way of RBs: the league seems to be awash in them and you can get a heck of a lot of TE for your cap dollar these days. Granted, the very elite TEs, like their RB peers, don't fit into this assessment, but as a general rule it seems like the number of smart, good blocking, TEs with soft hands has never been greater, league-wide.

Harbaugh seems to value TEs more than the average coach, so that mitigates in favor of Walker's value to the Niners, but big picture wise--as much as a really like the guy--I'm not sure how valuable Walker really is to other teams. Sure, he's above average, but is he worth paying above average money for? In that sense, Walker might actually end up being a lot cheaper than we're expecting.
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
You don't trade Delanie.

If we draft Fleener at #30, it is because we got a good WR (Meachem, Garcon, etc) as FA and somebody jaw dropping isn't there.

VD came on at the end of the year and was THE monster in the playoffs. By his own admission, he didn't really get the offense until the end.

Walker was so clutch all year, as a "wham" blocker, special teams demon, and TE. That catch against DET was epic.

Fleener knows the offense. To draft him would take what the Pats did (Aaron / Gronk) and take it up a notch. Each brings something different. Fleener would be the big (6'6") redzone target. Vernon with his jump seam route.

Dare I say it but we'd be the first team to have a Slot TE (D-Love) instead of a Slot Wr. Since Delanie was a WR, it is not too much of a stretch.

I say do it.

That is what I've been thinking ever since Harbaugh joined. I know he was big into TEs and ours are extremely talented. Go 3 TE, all capable receivers, with Gore in the backfield. What are we gonna do? The D either goes big and gets burnt by the TEs or stay base and get steamrolled. The possibilities are endless. I'm excited for next year.

Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

Then you run the ball.

But in your scenario the wideout on the field is being single covered, Vernon is being doubled with a LB and a Safety over top, Fleener is covered by a Strong Safety a matchup we want, Delainie is bigger than any corner, and if you put Hunter on the field he is being covered by whom?

There are mis-matches everywhere and that's without accounting for the fact that we could just run the ball.

Yes but let us not forget the most important ingredient...a QB with the balls to throw an accurate jump ball.

Alex threw jumpballs to Braylon but Bray could not convert. Who else should he have been throwing jump balls to? We had short receivers.

You don't need to be 6'4 to be able to catch jump balls. That's a luxury. Tree is 6'1 with long arms and fights for the catch. He did it in college so why wouldn't he be able to catch over DBs now? Rice was only 6'2" and he was able to catch over DBs. Recevera around the entire league do this, even Floyd. Alex just won't throw those types of passes and he has never shown he could, even in college. Not saying he can't, just saying he isn't mentally wired for jump balls. His have been flat throws or so far off that it makes it impossible for the receiver to get underneath and set for a jump.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
You don't trade Delanie.

If we draft Fleener at #30, it is because we got a good WR (Meachem, Garcon, etc) as FA and somebody jaw dropping isn't there.

VD came on at the end of the year and was THE monster in the playoffs. By his own admission, he didn't really get the offense until the end.

Walker was so clutch all year, as a "wham" blocker, special teams demon, and TE. That catch against DET was epic.

Fleener knows the offense. To draft him would take what the Pats did (Aaron / Gronk) and take it up a notch. Each brings something different. Fleener would be the big (6'6") redzone target. Vernon with his jump seam route.

Dare I say it but we'd be the first team to have a Slot TE (D-Love) instead of a Slot Wr. Since Delanie was a WR, it is not too much of a stretch.

I say do it.

That is what I've been thinking ever since Harbaugh joined. I know he was big into TEs and ours are extremely talented. Go 3 TE, all capable receivers, with Gore in the backfield. What are we gonna do? The D either goes big and gets burnt by the TEs or stay base and get steamrolled. The possibilities are endless. I'm excited for next year.

Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

Then you run the ball.

But in your scenario the wideout on the field is being single covered, Vernon is being doubled with a LB and a Safety over top, Fleener is covered by a Strong Safety a matchup we want, Delainie is bigger than any corner, and if you put Hunter on the field he is being covered by whom?

There are mis-matches everywhere and that's without accounting for the fact that we could just run the ball.

Yes but let us not forget the most important ingredient...a QB with the balls to throw an accurate jump ball.

Alex threw jumpballs to Braylon but Bray could not convert. Who else should he have been throwing jump balls to? We had short receivers.

You don't need to be 6'4 to be able to catch jump balls. That's a luxury. Tree is 6'1 with long arms and fights for the catch. He did it in college so why wouldn't he be able to catch over DBs now? Rice was only 6'2" and he was able to catch over DBs. Recevera around the entire league do this, even Floyd. Alex just won't throw those types of passes and he has never shown he could, even in college. Not saying he can't, just saying he isn't mentally wired for jump balls. His have been flat throws or so far off that it makes it impossible for the receiver to get underneath and set for a jump.

Without looking at every throw to Crab I can think of the Bengals game, Tree making the jump ball catch in the back of the endzone (it was wrongly ruled incomplete), a jump ball against the Ravens over the middle that Tree caught falling down and of course against the Hawks that saved Christmas at examples that he can and has made those throws.

The reason I used Braylon was because that is known to be his specialty and Alex did not hesitate to throw them when Edwards was on the field. Alex makes those throws same as any other, give him a taller target and he will make more of them.
Keep Kanye and have 4 TE sets with Byham
I'd much rather have Fleenr than DW. A tall, long target with great hands vs. a short target with bad hands. No comparison. VD and Fleener would be beasts. Alex really likes TE's anyway. I think he is more comfortable throwing in the middle of the field to TE's compared with outside WR's.

Sure trade DW. Yes he has some value.
[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:06 PM ]
Drafting Fleener would mean the team wouldn't resign Walker after next year when he's a FA IMO. I'd love our #2 TE to be a big target like Fleener. If the 9ers get a FA WR and are able to resign Goldson and Rogers or another vet CB then I'm going to be rooting for either Fleener or a RG on draft day.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
You don't trade Delanie.

If we draft Fleener at #30, it is because we got a good WR (Meachem, Garcon, etc) as FA and somebody jaw dropping isn't there.

VD came on at the end of the year and was THE monster in the playoffs. By his own admission, he didn't really get the offense until the end.

Walker was so clutch all year, as a "wham" blocker, special teams demon, and TE. That catch against DET was epic.

Fleener knows the offense. To draft him would take what the Pats did (Aaron / Gronk) and take it up a notch. Each brings something different. Fleener would be the big (6'6") redzone target. Vernon with his jump seam route.

Dare I say it but we'd be the first team to have a Slot TE (D-Love) instead of a Slot Wr. Since Delanie was a WR, it is not too much of a stretch.

I say do it.

That is what I've been thinking ever since Harbaugh joined. I know he was big into TEs and ours are extremely talented. Go 3 TE, all capable receivers, with Gore in the backfield. What are we gonna do? The D either goes big and gets burnt by the TEs or stay base and get steamrolled. The possibilities are endless. I'm excited for next year.

Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

Then you run the ball.

But in your scenario the wideout on the field is being single covered, Vernon is being doubled with a LB and a Safety over top, Fleener is covered by a Strong Safety a matchup we want, Delainie is bigger than any corner, and if you put Hunter on the field he is being covered by whom?

There are mis-matches everywhere and that's without accounting for the fact that we could just run the ball.

Yes but let us not forget the most important ingredient...a QB with the balls to throw an accurate jump ball.

Alex threw jumpballs to Braylon but Bray could not convert. Who else should he have been throwing jump balls to? We had short receivers.

You don't need to be 6'4 to be able to catch jump balls. That's a luxury. Tree is 6'1 with long arms and fights for the catch. He did it in college so why wouldn't he be able to catch over DBs now? Rice was only 6'2" and he was able to catch over DBs. Recevera around the entire league do this, even Floyd. Alex just won't throw those types of passes and he has never shown he could, even in college. Not saying he can't, just saying he isn't mentally wired for jump balls. His have been flat throws or so far off that it makes it impossible for the receiver to get underneath and set for a jump.

Have you ever seen any crabtree's college games? Or Alex's?
D.Walker would go to the Hawks who are going to get Payton Manning. He would then visit SF once a year to make us pay for it.
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
D.Walker would go to the Hawks who are going to get Payton Manning. He would then visit SF once a year to make us pay for it.

Yeah, just like Michael Robinson has. [/sarcasm]
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,197
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Yeah, just like Michael Robinson has. [/sarcasm]
and mike rumph, jamie winborn,kory sheets, rashaun woods,nate clements manny lawson, franklin and i am sure countless others made us paying for getting rid of them, that kind of thinking is so out dated. i think maybe julian peterson did come back to bite us in a couple games but thats it as far as x niners in recent memory, that is why i am puzzled by the clammer to bring back x niners when they are cut by thier next team. they never helped us win games, they never helped thier next team win games so why the hell would we want them back
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Have you ever seen any crabtree's college games? Or Alex's?

Yes and I have to say, Alex's throws in college weren't exactly threading needles or jump balls. Meyer's offense created mismatches that got receivers wide open. Credit to Alex for the presnap reads.

And Crabtree made difficult catches...dude can catch...he just needs more opportunities.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,196
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Have you ever seen any crabtree's college games? Or Alex's?

Yes and I have to say, Alex's throws in college weren't exactly threading needles or jump balls. Meyer's offense created mismatches that got receivers wide open. Credit to Alex for the presnap reads.

And Crabtree made difficult catches...dude can catch...he just needs more opportunities.

Yes and yes I'm from Utah and watch Alex's entire career, Joecool hit the nail on the head, Meyer's offense was predicated on mismatches and using quicker bodies to create openings, also Alex's legs were used pretty extensively during his college days
Originally posted by pakalolo415:
Keep Kanye and have 4 TE sets with Byham

NICE!
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,196
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by pakalolo415:
Keep Kanye and have 4 TE sets with Byham

NICE!

You are teh winnah!
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Have you ever seen any crabtree's college games? Or Alex's?

Yes and I have to say, Alex's throws in college weren't exactly threading needles or jump balls. Meyer's offense created mismatches that got receivers wide open. Credit to Alex for the presnap reads.

And Crabtree made difficult catches...dude can catch...he just needs more opportunities.

Alex's throws in college also weren't just to wide open receivers. He would throw into coverage if he saw a mismatch.

QBs don't normally throw jump ball type throws unless they have a tall receiver being covered by a shorter DB or they have a good vertical and have shown they will go up a fight for the ball.

Crabtree can catch but he wasn't a go over a defender and fight for the ball type of receiver in college. The played the Z position in Mike Leach's spread offense. The majority of his catches he was wide open. I can think of several plays when he did fight for the ball with a defender but it wasn't a jump ball situation.