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Hypothetical, if the Niners draft Fleener at #30, would Delanie Walker have any trade valu

The 49ers biggest weaknesses on offense last season were on third down and in the red zone. These were well documented and obvious, glaring deficiencies.

I say draft Fleener with our first pick, then our three tight ends will be Davis, Fleener & Walker. All very good blockers and pass catchers. I don't think Walker has much trade value or much value on a team other than the 49ers.

Sign a mid-level free agent wide receiver like Meachem and draft a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round receiver (not sure who). A fast receiver like this would complement Crabtree, who is turning out to be a very good possession receiver.

That gives us three very good to great tight ends, a receiver to stretch the field and, ultimately, multiple third down & red zone threats.

What's wrong with that?
[ Edited by FILTHpigskin on Feb 29, 2012 at 9:59 AM ]
Last year the team kept 3 TE's and 2 Fb's. I could see the team going 4 TE's this year and only 1 FB.
Walker was not involved in the passing attack towards the end of the season (before he got hurt) and I think he only has 1 year left on his contract. If the 9ers view Fleener as having a Gronkowski type impact I think they will take him. Just my opinion....
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Niners99:
why on earth would we use our 1st round pick on another TE...we have VD, and one of the best backup TE's in the NFL in Delanie Walker, and we have dire needs at WR.

common sense people.
I used to think like you but then people like joe cool and others talked about the potential of all sorts of mismatches we could create with fleener and that is not a knock against walker. you keep walker, you got the best group of tight ends on the nfl and then you could get a nice wide out in the third or fourth round. when i thought about those mismatches mayos penis tingling affliction got to me and i fell in love with the idea of getting fleener in the first round

And to note, a skilled TE better suits Alex's strengths. Now include a skilled tall TE who is already accustomed to hearing 2-4 plays per huddle and runs precise routes, especially the deep corner and post routes. He's also great at the 15 yard dig routes. He's not just a TE that the defense needs to only worry about 0-7 yards which Delanie mainly runs.

With the versatility in terms of routes that Crabs and Morgan run, it's not very difficult to find a WR in the draft that we can throw 3-4 long balls to and it's not worth the money.
[ Edited by Joecool on Feb 29, 2012 at 10:13 AM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by 9erred:
Lets say Baalke et al draft Fleener at #30. Understanding that VD is #1, Fleener is the future long term #2, Walker is due 1.9 million and only signed through 2012, do you think Walker would have any trade value. If yes, what round pick could the 9ers gain.

I think a 4th or 5th rounderr.

Very little.

Besides, Delanie ain't going anywhere. Drafting Fleener wouldn't be about replacing Walker. Its about running more 3 or even 4 TE sets instead of bringing in extra tackles.

Watch some Stanford games over the past few years. There is no such thing as too many TEs for Harbaugh.

Oh boy, with 3 TE's with speed and with/without a 4th blocking that would be a match-up nightmare. Since the 49ers can run the ball that package would be lethal.
well he would have blocking value which fleener has none. Do people not understand we need to let vernon loose not fleener. And fleener loose leaves vernon blocking cuz fleener cant
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
The 49ers biggest weaknesses on offense last season were on third down and in the red zone. These were well documented and obvious, glaring deficiencies.

I say draft Fleener with our first pick, then our three tight ends will be Davis, Fleener & Walker. All very good blockers and pass catchers. I don't think Walker has much trade value or much value on a team other than the 49ers.

Sign a mid-level free agent wide receiver like Meachem and draft a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round receiver (not sure who). A fast receiver like this would complement Crabtree, who is turning out to be a very good possession receiver.

That gives us three very good to great tight ends, a receiver to stretch the field and, ultimately, multiple third down & red zone threats.

What's wrong with that?

fleeners weakness is blocking lol
Originally posted by fan49:
well he would have blocking value which fleener has none. Do people not understand we need to let vernon loose not fleener. And fleener loose leaves vernon blocking cuz fleener cant

This isn't true. Every TE coming out of college that produced in the passing game has this label, including our own Vernon Davis. Delanie was a WR in college and had 0 blocking experience.

Do you actually think Fleener can't block better than Delanie? He doesn't need to pancake DE/OLBs, he just needs to hold his ground. It's not a big deal.
Excellent Question.

Based on numbers & TD production, probably 5-7th draft trade value. For a straight up player-for-player trade, I feel we'd get much more value. With who and for who - I have no idea. Maybe some of the Zoners have suggesions?

Agree w/people who think a 3 TE package would be a powerhouse for us and a nightmare to game plan for. Add to that ann improved WR corps and a mean b*****d RG and SBowl here we come.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by fan49:
well he would have blocking value which fleener has none. Do people not understand we need to let vernon loose not fleener. And fleener loose leaves vernon blocking cuz fleener cant

This isn't true. Every TE coming out of college that produced in the passing game has this label, including our own Vernon Davis. Delanie was a WR in college and had 0 blocking experience.

Do you actually think Fleener can't block better than Delanie? He doesn't need to pancake DE/OLBs, he just needs to hold his ground. It's not a big deal.

Also, Fleener actually played in Harbaugh's offense. Do you guys think Harbaugh didn't use him in 3 TE packages or to block. Come on!
Originally posted by Joecool:
Also, Fleener actually played in Harbaugh's offense. Do you guys think Harbaugh didn't use him in 3 TE packages or to block. Come on!

straight from a scouting report and its like this in all of them joe. which would lock up vernon for blocking... which is bad vernon is an elite te. we dont need our best threat blocking to allow fleener to roam

Blocking

If there's an area in which I would like to see significant improvement from Fleener, it is his blocking. He is not a great blocker despite working in-line so much as he does not drive back the defender nor does he often play with quality technique. He needs to do a better job of dropping his pad level as well as getting his hands inside of the defender to execute proper hand placement.

While the majority of his base blocks are not good enough, in my opinion, he has shown success on other types of blocks, despite them being more simplistic. These blocks in which he's had success on have been crack blocks, which feature him blocking down the line from a flexed alignment, as well as kick-out blocks that drive the defender wide of the play and turn him back inside to seal off a running lane.

Despite this, I believe he will have to improve a significant amount at this aspect of his game.

ps. this was the nice one
[ Edited by fan49 on Feb 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Joecool:
This isn't true. Every TE coming out of college that produced in the passing game has this label, including our own Vernon Davis. Delanie was a WR in college and had 0 blocking experience.

Do you actually think Fleener can't block better than Delanie? He doesn't need to pancake DE/OLBs, he just needs to hold his ground. It's not a big deal.
plus with the coaches we have they could help him improve that area. agree with joe, that is just nitpicking
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Also, Fleener actually played in Harbaugh's offense. Do you guys think Harbaugh didn't use him in 3 TE packages or to block. Come on!

straight from a scouting report and its like this in all of them joe. which would lock up vernon for blocking... which is bad vernon is an elite te. we dont need our best threat blocking to allow fleener to roam

Blocking

If there's an area in which I would like to see significant improvement from Fleener, it is his blocking. He is not a great blocker despite working in-line so much as he does not drive back the defender nor does he often play with quality technique. He needs to do a better job of dropping his pad level as well as getting his hands inside of the defender to execute proper hand placement.

While the majority of his base blocks are not good enough, in my opinion, he has shown success on other types of blocks, despite them being more simplistic. These blocks in which he's had success on have been crack blocks, which feature him blocking down the line from a flexed alignment, as well as kick-out blocks that drive the defender wide of the play and turn him back inside to seal off a running lane.

Despite this, I believe he will have to improve a significant amount at this aspect of his game.

ps. this was the nice one

The bold is EXACTLY how we used Delanie. That actually makes Fleener and even more immediate starter. Blocking ability also depends on how that player is used in the offense. Vernon was labeled as a weak blocker in college but that was mainly due to the fact that dude just never really blocked. Who's to say if Fleener is taught how to block other ways, he won't learn it?

Look at Vernon's production when Delanie (our weaker blocker mainly used similar to the bold above) came back. It actually improved Vernon's production but I have a feeling that has more to do with number of times targeted than it does with Delanie.
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
The 49ers biggest weaknesses on offense last season were on third down and in the red zone. These were well documented and obvious, glaring deficiencies.

I say draft Fleener with our first pick, then our three tight ends will be Davis, Fleener & Walker. All very good blockers and pass catchers. I don't think Walker has much trade value or much value on a team other than the 49ers.

Sign a mid-level free agent wide receiver like Meachem and draft a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round receiver (not sure who). A fast receiver like this would complement Crabtree, who is turning out to be a very good possession receiver.

That gives us three very good to great tight ends, a receiver to stretch the field and, ultimately, multiple third down & red zone threats.

What's wrong with that?

fleeners weakness is blocking lol

I'm sure Fleener has the ability and the coaches can coach-up that aspect of his game. Are you saying he'll never be a good blocker?
Trading Walker would make no sense. Come to think of it, TE in the 1st round makes no sense as well. The only way we are picking up this kid is the following. We don't get a WR in free agency, there is no clear #1 WR at that point in the draft, we dont have another major hole to fill like CB, and the BPA at that point is TE. I doubt it, its more likely we will trade up and get a WR, pick BPA, or trade back.