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Deal Done for Ahmad Brooks (6yr @ $44.5 million)

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Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
so i cant go through all 32 pages of the thread

how does his contract break down?

Nothing has been posted on exact numbers yet. I would love for it to look something like this....

2012 - 2 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2013 - 2.5 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2014 - 3 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2015 - 3.5 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2016 - 4 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2017 - 7 mil base

Let me get this straight. The 17mil is not up front. He only gets 3.5 mil SB if the team decided to continue to keep him for that year...? If so that's good for the team and not too bad for him either.
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

We are probably going to blitz more and bring 5 and 6 sometimes this year with the 2nd year in Fangio's play book. Guys were saying they didn't even get to the complicated stuff, and some of the stuff that's in there is absolutely genius. Not to mention the steelers have 2 guys who rush the passer frequently at both spots but it's not like it hurts them. One of the appealing things about Brooks is he's a complete player, he can do everything pretty well. Rush the passer, stop the run, and drop back in coverage. He plays almost every down dude.
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

Lawson instead of Brooks

I hope you don't work on the NFL scouting side of things.
  • fropwns
  • #1 Greenlaw Fan
  • Posts: 26,498
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by fropwns:
Fellas, fellas, I don't care where you work, what you program, or what you do when nobody is looking. Let's not turning this wonderful news into an elaborate pissing match. Eh? Respect fellas, we need respect around here.

Get bent.
Why Wodwo, You look like someone just walked over your grave.

Play nice.
Originally posted by fropwns:
Fellas, fellas, I don't care where you work, what you program, or what you do when nobody is looking. Let's not turning this wonderful news into an elaborate pissing match. Eh? Respect fellas, we need respect around here.

Just exchange addresses and fight already. With regard to Brooks, I think we overpaid, but he's a good football player.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

We are probably going to blitz more and bring 5 and 6 sometimes this year with the 2nd year in Fangio's play book. Guys were saying they didn't even get to the complicated stuff, and some of the stuff that's in there is absolutely genius. Not to mention the steelers have 2 guys who rush the passer frequently at both spots but it's not like it hurts them. One of the appealing things about Brooks is he's a complete player, he can do everything pretty well. Rush the passer, stop the run, and drop back in coverage. He plays almost every down dude.

not to mention that if Aldon plays every down he isn't going to be rushing every time. sometimes it'll be brooks, sometimes it'll be Aldon, sometimes both. that's whats great about having two guys who can rush from the edge. teams will be even less certain about where that 4th rusher is coming from with Aldon on the field more.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
so i cant go through all 32 pages of the thread

how does his contract break down?

Nothing has been posted on exact numbers yet. I would love for it to look something like this....

2012 - 2 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2013 - 2.5 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2014 - 3 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2015 - 3.5 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2016 - 4 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2017 - 7 mil base

Let me get this straight. The 17mil is not up front. He only gets 3.5 mil SB if the team decided to continue to keep him for that year...? If so that's good for the team and not too bad for him either.

The 17.5 is his as soon as he signed... but... it doesn't all count against this year's cap.. It is spread out over 5 of the 6 years of the contract. So while that money is his? The 2o12 cap hit = 5.5 for Brooks... and soon.
[ Edited by oldman9er on Feb 28, 2012 at 6:01 PM ]
  • mike
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,827
Originally posted by BSofSF:
Smith, Goldson, Rogers (?), Morgan, Ginn ... don't think they will try to land an expensive, splashy name WR. Agree with Maiocco that they'll follow methodical approach and look for relative bargains at WR that fall through cracks to second tier and draft one or two. I just think a top notch WR could open up lots of productivity for other offensive players like Crabtree, Davis, Gore/Hunter. Then you don't have to hold the opposition to 17 pts a game because you can put up 28. I assume Haralson is cut or backs up and the starters are Smith, Bowman, Willis and Brooks. That's full-time starter money and Ballke already said that Aldon Smith will be a full-time starter also.
Rogers is as good as gone to me, sorry to those who think he's actually worth a big contract at his age. Someone who only has been here for a year is more likely to be more than happy to test the market.

So lets see, forgive me because I'm about to delve into a huge post trying to figure out what our plan could be with the rest of the offseason... We have $33.8 million in cap space.

I think Smith ends up 1 or 2 million cheaper than people have been saying, somewhere around $6 million a year with lots of incentives, it's still a raise but he needs harbaugh and the niners as much as we need him(I could be wrong of course, in which case add a million or so). Goldson probably gets the tag for $6.45 million. Brooks was about $7 million per year.

That's $19.45 million for Alex, Ahmad, and Goldson, leaving around 14 million in space. Ginn and Morgan both will either be really cheap or we don't bother to bring them back. Morgan may never be as good as he was before he broke his leg, if he was even that good to begin with. Ginn has restructured to be on our team before and should be willing to come cheap or return punts somewhere else. I would spend no more than a million on either of them. That leaves at least 13 million to pay for your 1st round pick, Snyder, other prospects, and whatever free agents we can afford.

According to my understanding of the new rookie scale-- 30th pick being an average of the 22 players' contracts from 3rd highest paid at a position to 25th, if we pick a 1st round Wide receiver and my math is correct(according to base salaries on spotrac.com) that's $3.95 million for our 1st round WR, or probably less if we draft a different position.

So $9.05 million left to resign Snyder, sign the rest of the cheaper rookies and get at least one free agent. I wouldn't expect Snyder and the rest to be much more than 3 million. Cut Haralson and you've got another 3 million or so. So I would say, if we're willing to spend all the way to the cap, 8 or 9 million is a reasonable amount of money for a free agent. I'm not sure it can be enough to drag a high profile guy here but we can get someone decent. That is of course in the scenario where we lose Rogers, blow 5 million or more on him and we most likely get no one.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

Lawson instead of Brooks

I hope you don't work on the NFL scouting side of things.

Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying Lawson>Brooks. I'm saying if another team offered Brooks $20M+ in free agency or something and we were unable to retain him, a lot of what we need from that OLB spot opposite Aldon is exactly what Manny excels at and Manny would make a TON less cash, valuable cash that we can use to re-sign our own guys and maybe a Mike Wallace or something.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
so i cant go through all 32 pages of the thread

how does his contract break down?

Nothing has been posted on exact numbers yet. I would love for it to look something like this....

2012 - 2 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2013 - 2.5 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2014 - 3 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2015 - 3.5 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2016 - 4 mil base, 3.5 mil guaranteed SB
2017 - 7 mil base

Let me get this straight. The 17mil is not up front. He only gets 3.5 mil SB if the team decided to continue to keep him for that year...? If so that's good for the team and not too bad for him either.

Signing bonus I believe is paid up front, but for cap purposes it is spread through the years.

And most guaranteed base salary gets back loaded, so it slowly increases over time (giving the team an option to cut effectively).

Member Milestone: This is post number 1,800 for andes14.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

We are probably going to blitz more and bring 5 and 6 sometimes this year with the 2nd year in Fangio's play book. Guys were saying they didn't even get to the complicated stuff, and some of the stuff that's in there is absolutely genius. Not to mention the steelers have 2 guys who rush the passer frequently at both spots but it's not like it hurts them. One of the appealing things about Brooks is he's a complete player, he can do everything pretty well. Rush the passer, stop the run, and drop back in coverage. He plays almost every down dude.

not to mention that if Aldon plays every down he isn't going to be rushing every time. sometimes it'll be brooks, sometimes it'll be Aldon, sometimes both. that's whats great about having two guys who can rush from the edge. teams will be even less certain about where that 4th rusher is coming from with Aldon on the field more.

Aldon will drop into coverage SOMETIMES, but let's be real, not a lot. And I don't see the point on rushing 5 and 6 when we got such good pressure last year with 4. Why fix what's not broken. On early downs, most of the time you're gonna be seeing RayMac, Sopoaga, and the Smiths rushing. Ya, WHEN A. Smith is in coverage, oftentimes Brooks will rush, but like I said, we all know Aldon isn't gonna be in coverage a ton.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

We are probably going to blitz more and bring 5 and 6 sometimes this year with the 2nd year in Fangio's play book. Guys were saying they didn't even get to the complicated stuff, and some of the stuff that's in there is absolutely genius. Not to mention the steelers have 2 guys who rush the passer frequently at both spots but it's not like it hurts them. One of the appealing things about Brooks is he's a complete player, he can do everything pretty well. Rush the passer, stop the run, and drop back in coverage. He plays almost every down dude.

not to mention that if Aldon plays every down he isn't going to be rushing every time. sometimes it'll be brooks, sometimes it'll be Aldon, sometimes both. that's whats great about having two guys who can rush from the edge. teams will be even less certain about where that 4th rusher is coming from with Aldon on the field more.

Aldon will drop into coverage SOMETIMES, but let's be real, not a lot. And I don't see the point on rushing 5 and 6 when we got such good pressure last year with 4. Why fix what's not broken. On early downs, most of the time you're gonna be seeing RayMac, Sopoaga, and the Smiths rushing. Ya, WHEN A. Smith is in coverage, oftentimes Brooks will rush, but like I said, we all know Aldon isn't gonna be in coverage a ton.

aldon playing every down will be determined by his ability to become a complete player. yeah, he'll be rushing mostly, but doesn't it stand to reason that sometimes he won't? Is it hard to see why its good to have two skilled passrushers at OLB?
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by andes14:
An important point people are glossing over:

I hope people realize that on 1st and 2nd down, Brooks isn't even gonna be rushing the passer all that much. Aldon will be an every down player, and he will be doing most of the early down pass rushing, meaning Brooks will oftentimes be in coverage as Fangio rarely brings 5 or more rushers. If we did let Brooks walk, all we'd really need to go a long ways in replacing him would have been just a good coverage/set the edge LB, a la even our good friend Manny Lawson.

Lawson instead of Brooks

I hope you don't work on the NFL scouting side of things.

Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying Lawson>Brooks. I'm saying if another team offered Brooks $20M+ in free agency or something and we were unable to retain him, a lot of what we need from that OLB spot opposite Aldon is exactly what Manny excels at and Manny would make a TON less cash, valuable cash that we can use to re-sign our own guys and maybe a Mike Wallace or something.

Thats a terrible way to run a team.

Brooks is a way better player then Lawson and way more of a complete player that gives our D versatility. With Brooks, our D is able to do different things which in in itself has value.

Lawson made what, $3 million? He will probably be makring something like $4 million a year. Last article I saw had Brooks making guaranteed $17 million over 6 years which is $2.83 million a year with $4.5 million in possible incentives. For all we know, the incentive could be selected defensive MVP of the league.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
OMG.

Amazing. Miss the point much? Wow.

Dude. Please read. I'll try small words.

Don't care where work. Not saying not fan. Don't care what contracts you see. Stop side step question. Explain why overpaid.

Simple enough?

I've explained so many times. Here is why he is overpaid:

Brooks is the 6th-7th best player on our D at BEST. He is a good player, a solid player. He at this point is NOT a STAR (though clearly this contract indicates we anticipate him to be), and I personally believe that only established stars warrant north of $17M guaranteed, If you look around the league, there are tons of guys that have done more than Brooks that are making a lot less. Guys that have signed new contracts AFTER doing a lot more than Brooks (so I'm not even talking about guys underpaid on a rookie contract or something who are gonna get their money on a contract in the future).

Also, I feel so many are in support of this deal just because Baalke's a great GM and deservedly won Exec of the Year. I love Baalke. Doesn't mean I can't even make my own opinion and analysis on a move he does that causes me to raise an eyebrow. Like I said, many of you (myself included) were pissed about the Harbaugh FG debacle vs. Dallas. That doesn't mean you think you're a better coach than him, just that you disagree with that particular decision. If you love Obama but disagree with one particular policy, it doesn't mean you're claiming to be a smarter politician. People seem to be afraid to acknowledge that this deal is anything other than wonderful, just because they are fans of Baalke.

THANK YOU. An argument that has nothing to do with your job.

YES. Brooks WILL be paid more than he's worth if your perspective is of who is worth what on a defense RIGHT NOW.

Guess what tho? Its ALWAYS THAT WAY. He is paid like that simply because he will be the guy who signed a contract most recently. Thats life. When each one of these guys gets THEIR turn to sign a contract, THEY will get the big $$$$ until eventually Brooks deal looks downright low. The contracts get bigger and bigger every single year. Thats the way of the NFL.

Brooks is paid like that because that is his market. It's not what he is "worth", it's what the market dictates. Once FA begins and the $$$$ start flying we are all going to be stunned by the numbers we see.

Eric freakin' Weddle is the highest paid safety in NFL history. Is he the best ever? HELL NO!!! Is he even in the top 4 or 5 in the NFL NOW? Eventually Patrick WIllis will be grossly underpaid. Navorro Bowman will probably get a bigger contract than P52 and then Patricks deal will have to be redone. When Vernon was drafted, he was the highest paid TE in NFL history. That number has been surpased SEVERAL times since (once by himself).

This is all simply the price of doing business. The contract will most likely be backloaded.

Hell...the team is about to release Spencer and his 3.3 million and possibly Haralson and his 2.5. Are those guys "worth" that money? No. Thats why they could be sent packing. The same will happen to Brooks if he doesn't play well.

You are looking at this in terms of what the $$$$ mean NOW. You are looking at this like the market is static and doesn't change.

That is COMPLETELY incorrect. Just watch when FA starts. you will see what I mean.
yes if its a straight forward 17.5M Signing Bonus, pro-rated over 5 seasons, he is on the cap for 3.5M a yr plus his base salary, which is all he would earn, besides incentives maxing it to 44.5M. He gets the signing bonus as soon as he signs, in form of a check.

So if he gets a 1M or 2M base, he is getting paid the 17.5M plus his base in year 1, but only counts 3.5M + Base against the cap. Kinda tricky. Cash vs Cap. Cash is for players usually in year 1 of deal, he gets signing bonus full amount plus base, like with peyton, he made over 28M i believe in 2011 in cash, cap wise much less.

His option bonus is treated as a pro-rated signing bonus, he got part of it last season, and the remaining is due march 8th. But he would only count $5.6M against the cap for that each yr. He doesn't actually have a 28M salary, its around 17M. Interesting note is if they do release him, they receive a credit for the 5.6M he was paid in 2011, so they will increase their cap by 5.6M. Good because they need the money, but bad because no more Peyton, and potentially Wayne. And Garcon and Robert Mathis might be gone, they will get offers outside of indy.
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