What keeps the offense from begin elite | Page 11

merm49 · 2012-02-27T22:46:01-08:00

When healthy last year, we had one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league. Morgan, Edwards, Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Walker, Gore, Hunter, Miller. That's a deep group of very solid offensive skill players. Obviously, we had major issues with health and the WR corps was reduced to Crabtree and scrubs by the playoffs. Nonetheless, I and a lot of others felt we had the talent to be an elite offense, as we should be next year adding a couple WRs in FA and the draft. Instead, we were average at best. There were some great moments (Philly, Detroit, Saints), but for the most part we plodded along, couldn't score in the RZ, and couldn't convert 3rd downs. Is that due to Alex or play calling? I'm more inclined to fault play calling, and here's why. (Disclaimer: the unique offseason necessitated a conservative offensive approach the first few games; I'm talking about once we got to mid season) Alex Smith demonstrated that he can be a competent, game managing QB who makes the crucial play when he has to have. Look at Philly, DET, NO for proof, along with big-time throws against PIT, at SEA, etc. He did enough to get us to the SB if not for KW's first bout of ineptitude and idiocy. He has his faults, but he made a gigantic leap under Harbaugh in year one and only figures to get better with a full offseason and first-ever year in the same system (I still find it unbelievable that we can't evaluate Alex in year 2 of an O and he's entering his 8th year). If Harbuagh can get Smith to play the entire game with the same urgency as he displayed in his comebacks, he's going to be very dangerous. Given Smith's demonstrated crunch-time ability, I believe more of the fault lies with play calling. Now, Harbuagh's "every possession must end with a kick (KO, FG, or Punt)" philosophy is a great strategy and won us a lot of games. It also cost us the Dallas game, and forced us settle for tons of FGs that should have been TDs. How many times did we reach the RZ only to run 3 consecutive times up the gut from the start of the season up to the AZ loss. For example, I attended the game vs. the Skins where we reached the RZ 3 times but ran on each play. Later in the season, we seemed to become too pass-heavy, eschewing the run when it was working well for us. This was never more glaring than the NFCC, where Gore and Hunter were gashing the Giants, yet Roman/Harbaugh opted to put the game on Alex's shoulders, forcing him to throw in the face of a strong pass rush to a double-covered VD, an off-his-game Crabtree, and scrubs. Over the course of the entire season, we rarely ran screen plays, despite facing a lot of pressure and having Hunter, Davis, and Walker as proven threats on these routes. We called questionable trick plays in crucial games, such as the failed half-back pass vs NO and the KW fumbled reverse vs NYG. We just never seemed to get in to a good rhythm as an O, pounding the rock early in the season and then forgetting about it late; too often we got away from going with what was working in games. I know I'll probably take some heat for criticizing play calling, as every fan imagines him/herself as a better OC than the guys actually doing the job. I still have the utmost faith in Harbuagh and his staff, and the glimpses of greatness (for example, the 2 late TDs vs NO) give me hope that they will adjust the game plan and make better use of our considerable offensive talent going forward.

Feb 29, 2012 at 8:41 AM

#151

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,167

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by SundayTicket:
Im a alex smith fan all the way. hes our QB of our team But just saying this...

Imagine if we brought in Philip Rivers and let brooks and 1 other guy go. then grab a FA WR and draft 1??

QBPhillip Rivers. RB Gore/Hunter WR/Free Agent WR/Crabtree/ WR Morgan/ WR 1st RD Pick/ TE/Vernon Davis/Walker

Then our Defense of pwillis, Bowman, Aldon, Justin, RayMac, Rodgers, Dashon, Whitner, Cullliver. I mean that is just a wrecking ball.
How the hell are we supposed to get Philip Rivers???

i have no idea, would be awesome though to have him.

Not if he plays like he did last season.

Feb 29, 2012 at 8:42 AM

#152

father49er
Veteran
Posts: 7,303

1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

Feb 29, 2012 at 8:48 AM

#153

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,167

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by cNiner:
Alex nuf said .

Yup..I hate those QBs that rank in the top 10 despite their WRs dropping more passes per att. than any other team with a winning record while getting more pressure than 2/3rd of the NFL QBs.
ball placement has a lot to do with dropped passes. fact
This. Has anyone ever noticed that New Englands Rec never make great catches? Its because Brady puts the ball on the money so they don't have to.

You need to watch the Patriots play more. Brady does NOT always put the ball "on the money." The ball thrown behind Welker in the SB is just one example. If Brady puts that ball "on the money," the result is changed. The fact is, as Welker said post-game, that was a tough catch but one he normally makes. Brady without Welker is not the same offense, not even close. Note the number of catches he had.

Feb 29, 2012 at 8:53 AM

#154

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,167

Originally posted by Bootlegger:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
this is what i meant to quote above, but couldn't edit my post to make it look like this.

I was snide?

All I am saying is that there is no need to say someone is hating because he thinks the reason we do not have an elite offense is because of Alex Smith. I agree with him and can post stats like these to help prove my point. If you think otherwise, show me the stats you think are pertinent in showing that Alex Smith is not holding us back from being elite.

vs. the NYG in playoffs.

Interesting data but it also shows the difference in quality of the WRs on the three teams as well. NONE of the 49er receivers in the playoffs last season would start in either GB or Atlanta - which is why most mocks have the 49ers using the #1 pick on a WR. The ones that don't have them grabbing one of the 2nd tier in the 2nd round. The need is undeniable.

Feb 29, 2012 at 9:05 AM

#155

qnnhan7
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Posts: 35,106

Shorten camp coupled with injuries to the receivers killed us. Edwards, Crabtree, Morgan, Ginn, Williams, were all injured at one time or another. Seems like they toke turns getting injured. Makes me wonder which group will get the injury bug next year. But if you ask some on the Zone, it's simply Smith's fault for the inept offense. What else is new

Feb 29, 2012 at 9:06 AM

#156

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,167

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

In your quest to continue the debate you are ignoring the proven ability of Harbaugh and staff to develop/improve players. Everyone on the team improved during the last season except RG and WRs. The RG situation is about talent and the WRs were partly talent and partly injuries. With improved talent in those areas, and a full off-season and TC, there is no reason to believe those two positions will not show marked improvement under JH and staff.

Feb 29, 2012 at 9:11 AM

#157

Kolohe
Hall of Fame
Posts: 66,706

Young and inexperienced WR's.

Feb 29, 2012 at 10:45 AM

#158

Joecool
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Posts: 70,984

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

In your quest to continue the debate you are ignoring the proven ability of Harbaugh and staff to develop/improve players. Everyone on the team improved during the last season except RG and WRs. The RG situation is about talent and the WRs were partly talent and partly injuries. With improved talent in those areas, and a full off-season and TC, there is no reason to believe those two positions will not show marked improvement under JH and staff.

That is false. Crabtree improved from 2010. Kyle Williams started to have better games later in the year which means the rookie improved. Ginn improved his overall production from last year considering he missed some games due to injury this year. Morgan had already appeared to have improved prior to his injury.

All this WR improvement while being target and thrown to less than most WR's in the league on an offense that passes less than most teams in the league.

In actuality, our OL also improved on changing personnel alone. Of all these years of improving OL personnel, why hasn't the sack numbers improved? But that's will never be pointed at our QB who will not pull the trigger on an open receiver and would rather take the sack which is a fact. In prior years, your complaint was that coaching did not teach our OL properly and batted balls were also due to coaching. I have a feeling you can't blame the coaching on this anymore. Also, how many teams have ALL 5 OL spots playing at a high level? Nearly every team has a weak link on the OL but only ours repeatedly gives up 40 sack seasons with what is safe to say, only one "weak" link. Note that other OL we have let go went on to be solid starters in the league. The same guys you used to blame.

[ Edited by Joecool on Feb 29, 2012 at 10:48 AM ]

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:05 AM

#159

LoneWolf
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Posts: 7,064

Joe how many games did crabtree start last season.

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:12 AM

#160

GolittaCamper
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Posts: 7,277

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith drama thread....

[ Edited by GolittaCamper on Feb 29, 2012 at 12:25 PM ]

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:12 AM

#161

Joecool
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Posts: 70,984

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Joe how many games did crabtree start last season.

He played in 15 and was targeted 101 times: about 13 less than this year. He only had 55 receptions. While only being targeted 13 more times in 2011, he had 72 receptions. Morgan was also improving. Gore improved by a lot. The only player who didn't improve by a lot is Alex Smith.

Yes, his confidence and other non-measureless appeared to have improved, but his production did not-correction-only his INTs did. INT was the key factor in Singletary Alex vs Harbaugh Alex. Sacks-no.

I'm just getting sick and tired of "nobody improved but Alex" when that is clearly false. The fact is: Alex's production didn't improve by a lot when everyone else's production did. The numbers show it.

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:17 AM

#162

Joecool
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Posts: 70,984

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:32 AM

#163

GolittaCamper
Veteran
Posts: 7,277

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

See, some drama unfolds! I feel your pain, Alex Smith is a "serviceable" veteran QB, not a super star...so? should we dump him asap for who for what? So until a super star we can again emerges, we will have Alex, and so we will need better receivers to create separation, maybe he will gain confidence and start throwing into tight windows...who knows, but I do know this, a better running back, and 2 better wide receives would make the offense...wait for it...BETTER! LOL thanks good night!

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:44 AM

#164

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

GolittaCamper that's the utter truth right there. The problem with the arguments about the offense, whether alex, the receivers, or the oline. It just a bunch of what if bs.

Feb 29, 2012 at 11:49 AM

#165

Joecool
Veteran
Posts: 70,984

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

See, some drama unfolds! I feel your pain, Alex Smith is a "serviceable" veteran QB, not a super star...so? should we dump him asap for who for what? So until a super star we can again emerges, we will have Alex, and so we will need better receivers to create separation, maybe he will gain confidence and start throwing into tight windows...who knows, but I do know this, a better running back, and 2 better wide receives would make the offense...wait for it...BETTER! LOL thanks good night!

That is where the major misconception lies. As Alex isn't going anywhere, neither is Crabtree or Kyle Williams and possibly Morgan. The "separation" is in the eye of the beholder because what most see as separation on coaches film, Alex doesn't see it.

This team is not going to pay a lucrative amount for these proven receivers who get this "separation" you desire. Even if we do, the lack of separation will be surprising to you guys and those receivers are not great because of a vast amount more of separation. They are great because they get thrown the ball to 40 times more than our 843 yard receiver which allows them to attempt more jump balls and other difficult catches.

The bigger question isn't whether or not we can acquire a receiver who can get even slightly more separation or can make the tough catch...the question is, will Alex throw it or will these same top receivers match their production while being thrown to less than they were accustomed to?

THAT is why I would rather upgrade Delanie and get a fast tall raw receiver late in the draft.