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If Brooks Bails, Bring Back Manny?

Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Just curious, in what way? I dont think you can say the real upgrade in our defense came from Lawson leaving and Brooks starting. The upgrade came from starting RayMac, adding Aldon and Justin playing out of his dam mind.....did I mention the addition of Bowman as well?

BTW, Lawson had better stats as a Niner in 2010 and 09 than he did as a 2011 Bengal.

I can if we're talking about pass rush, Brooks was a real upgrade in that area. The run defense between the two is a wash. I'd give Manny the edge in coverage, but that's it.

Brooks had a career high 7 sacks last year. Before that he had 5 in 2010 and 6 in 2009. This year he took every snap and certainly benefited from the talent around him, which Lawson never had. I'm not saying Brooks isn't a little better, but I dont think the difference is "real upgrade in that area" either. BTW, Lawson had a career high 6.5 sacks in 2009 with a weaker supporting cast.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Just curious, in what way? I dont think you can say the real upgrade in our defense came from Lawson leaving and Brooks starting. The upgrade came from starting RayMac, adding Aldon and Justin playing out of his dam mind.....did I mention the addition of Bowman as well?

BTW, Lawson had better stats as a Niner in 2010 and 09 than he did as a 2011 Bengal.

I can if we're talking about pass rush, Brooks was a real upgrade in that area. The run defense between the two is a wash. I'd give Manny the edge in coverage, but that's it.

Brooks had a career high 7 sacks last year. Before that he had 5 in 2010 and 6 in 2009. This year he took every snap and certainly benefited from the talent around him, which Lawson never had. I'm not saying Brooks isn't a little better, but I dont think the difference is "real upgrade in that area" either. BTW, Lawson had a career high 6.5 sacks in 2009 with a weaker supporting cast.

Lawson never had? Justin Smith, PWilly, Goldson, Soap, Ray Mac, etc. all played when Manny was here. He had TSpikes and prime Clements too. Just face it Brooks is a way better pass rusher than Manny dude.

edit: and Brooks sack numbers were as a part time player, Lawson's were a result of playing a lot of snaps.
[ Edited by WillistheWall on Feb 21, 2012 at 10:03 PM ]
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Might be nice to have someone who can cover TEs so Willis doesn't have to. I miss seeing him drop into that hook curl-to-hook zone and destroy crossing routes. Of course, it would have to be cheap. A 4-3 team could like what they saw and offer bigger bucks than we would.

Or if the Pats make it to the 2012/13 Superbowl and we have to defend against Gronk and Hernandez.....
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Just curious, in what way? I dont think you can say the real upgrade in our defense came from Lawson leaving and Brooks starting. The upgrade came from starting RayMac, adding Aldon and Justin playing out of his dam mind.....did I mention the addition of Bowman as well?

BTW, Lawson had better stats as a Niner in 2010 and 09 than he did as a 2011 Bengal.

I can if we're talking about pass rush, Brooks was a real upgrade in that area. The run defense between the two is a wash. I'd give Manny the edge in coverage, but that's it.

Brooks had a career high 7 sacks last year. Before that he had 5 in 2010 and 6 in 2009. This year he took every snap and certainly benefited from the talent around him, which Lawson never had. I'm not saying Brooks isn't a little better, but I dont think the difference is "real upgrade in that area" either. BTW, Lawson had a career high 6.5 sacks in 2009 with a weaker supporting cast.

Lawson never had? Justin Smith, PWilly, Goldson, Soap, Ray Mac, etc. all played when Manny was here. He had TSpikes and prime Clements too. Just face it Brooks is a way better pass rusher than Manny dude.

Really?

Justin Smith is coming off his best season

Aldon Smith is enough to end this argument because he's such a game changer, but he had 14 sacks and literally brought pressure every play.

Sure Ray Mac was on the team, but he wasn't a starter and Soap is not nearly as effective on the end as RayMac.

Goldson was still learning and wasn't the player he is today, but even so I dont think he was much of a facter back then. Not to mention he was often hurt.

Clements was a gambler and got burned on a regular. Rogers in a huge upgrade.

Again, just because some of the names are the same, the scheme and the way we use them is totally different, not to mention the addition of guys like Aldon and Rogers.

Edit to your edit: Brooks only has 7 sacks starting full time on a better defense than a year ago. Lawson had 6.5 sacks starting full time on a lesser defense. Sometimes less snaps (part time) equals fresh legs to get after the QB, so I'm not sure where you are going with that?
[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Feb 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM ]
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Just curious, in what way? I dont think you can say the real upgrade in our defense came from Lawson leaving and Brooks starting. The upgrade came from starting RayMac, adding Aldon and Justin playing out of his dam mind.....did I mention the addition of Bowman as well?

BTW, Lawson had better stats as a Niner in 2010 and 09 than he did as a 2011 Bengal.

I can if we're talking about pass rush, Brooks was a real upgrade in that area. The run defense between the two is a wash. I'd give Manny the edge in coverage, but that's it.

Brooks had a career high 7 sacks last year. Before that he had 5 in 2010 and 6 in 2009. This year he took every snap and certainly benefited from the talent around him, which Lawson never had. I'm not saying Brooks isn't a little better, but I dont think the difference is "real upgrade in that area" either. BTW, Lawson had a career high 6.5 sacks in 2009 with a weaker supporting cast.

Lawson never had? Justin Smith, PWilly, Goldson, Soap, Ray Mac, etc. all played when Manny was here. He had TSpikes and prime Clements too. Just face it Brooks is a way better pass rusher than Manny dude.

Really?

Justin Smith is coming off his best season

Aldon Smith is enough to end this argument because he's such a game changer, but he had 14 sacks and literally brought pressure every play.

Sure Ray Mac was on the team, but he wasn't a starter and Soap is not nearly as effective on the end as RayMac.

Goldson was still learning and wasn't the player he is today, but even so I dont think he was much of a facter back then. Not to mention he was often hurt.

Clements was a gambler and got burned on a regular. Rogers in a huge upgrade.

Again, just because some of the names are the same, the scheme and the way we use them is totally different, not to mention the addition of guys like Aldon and Rogers.

Yeah and Brooks's previous numbers were playing much less snaps than Lawson's sack numbers. Manny's just not a good pass rusher. Harbaugh let him go for a reason dude.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Yeah and Brooks's previous numbers were playing much less snaps than Lawson's sack numbers. Manny's just not a good pass rusher. Harbaugh let him go for a reason dude.

I'm not arguing that he is, but I dont think he is much worst than Brooks. Before this season Brooks stats pretty much came from one game agaisnt the Tards. They both get pressure, they just dont sack the QB well. Ware, Aldon, Harrison, Wake and guys like that are true passrushers, Brooks and Manny aren't. Again, I'll keep Brooks if we can, but if not, I'd entertain the idea of getting Lawson, while we try to find Aldon part deux.
(If he was resigned) I would have liked te see Fangio to find a way to have Manny covering TE's instead of Willis.
Lawson was great at setting the edge and was starting become a better pass rusher. Who knows what this coaching staff would have done with his skillset

Lawson, Bowman, Willis all run 4.4
Originally posted by Squidp:
(If he was resigned) I would have liked te see Fangio to find a way to have Manny covering TE's instead of Willis.
Lawson was great at setting the edge and was starting become a better pass rusher. Who knows what this coaching staff would have done with his skillset

Lawson, Bowman, Willis all run 4.4

Bowman doesn't run a 4.4.
i'd be all for signing Lawson again, but I'd have him replace Parys. sure he played better, but he's still garbage.
Manny Lawson was nothing special. Poor man's Julian Peterson....that's a compliment too. He was just ineffective for us. Why would we want him back? Brooks needs to be retained if possible.
I always liked Manny. And IMO he IS / WAS underrated in the NFL, by the 49ers and on the WZ. In a day and age when the TE's just keep getting bigger and bigger and faster and faster Manny is perfect. Does he rush the passer well? No. Is he an awesome cover LB? YES. He's 6'5" 240 lbs. with 4.4 speed. That's awesome for covering Gronkowski or Graham. We wouldn't have struggled as much as we did with Jimmy Graham if we still had him. He has the size, length, speed and cover skills to match up with Graham. We keep using Willis to cover guys. But that #1 takes him away from the line of scrimmage where he is best and #2 puts a 6'1" guy on 6'7" beasts. Manny's size and length is perfect for the way the NFL is going. It's evolving and it's played through the air with huge TE's now. That trend will only continue. It's a copycat league.

I would like both of them. I think it's a strong chance we lose Brooks. Somebody will offer him a lot. Manny is not a great pass rusher. But he brings unique cover skills and length. And frees up Willis to do what he really does naturally. I think having him back really helps our team in a way. For $3 million it's crazy not not want him for his cover skills alone.
helll no
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Yeah and Brooks's previous numbers were playing much less snaps than Lawson's sack numbers. Manny's just not a good pass rusher. Harbaugh let him go for a reason dude.

I'm not arguing that he is, but I dont think he is much worst than Brooks. Before this season Brooks stats pretty much came from one game agaisnt the Tards. They both get pressure, they just dont sack the QB well. Ware, Aldon, Harrison, Wake and guys like that are true passrushers, Brooks and Manny aren't. Again, I'll keep Brooks if we can, but if not, I'd entertain the idea of getting Lawson, while we try to find Aldon part deux.

oh my god dude just seriously... please stop . He's not coming back, the coaching staff let him go in the first place in other words "we dont want him on our team, he's not a fit for our system". Seriously just let it go.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Yeah and Brooks's previous numbers were playing much less snaps than Lawson's sack numbers. Manny's just not a good pass rusher. Harbaugh let him go for a reason dude.

I'm not arguing that he is, but I dont think he is much worst than Brooks. Before this season Brooks stats pretty much came from one game agaisnt the Tards. They both get pressure, they just dont sack the QB well. Ware, Aldon, Harrison, Wake and guys like that are true passrushers, Brooks and Manny aren't. Again, I'll keep Brooks if we can, but if not, I'd entertain the idea of getting Lawson, while we try to find Aldon part deux.

oh my god dude just seriously... please stop . He's not coming back, the coaching staff let him go in the first place in other words "we dont want him on our team, he's not a fit for our system". Seriously just let it go.

Sure, NFL teams never bring players back after releasing them....

I guess I'll let this little pipe dream go; back to the Alex Smith thread for me......or maybe dwell in the Kyle Williams debalcule.......I suppose I could always talk about Dixon and his dumb ass tweets....
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by WillistheWall:
oh my god dude just seriously... please stop . He's not coming back, the coaching staff let him go in the first place in other words "we dont want him on our team, he's not a fit for our system". Seriously just let it go.
when i saw this thread my blood pressure started to rise with another lets get another x niner back lucky i saw this reply from willis and now i do not have to say anything,,, you sum it up very very well,, thank you whether its jamie winborn, jason hill, owens or whoever the hell else,,, what gives with the constant clammer to bring back x niners who are x niners for a reason
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