Do you believe the 49er will sign a true #1 WR AND a high draft pick as #2 WR?

I say yes. I don't think either Brooks or Rogers is coming back so they will pay up for a #1 and draft one also.

Barry , for a third post, that was extremely well thot out, cogent, and well written.. Whether others agree with you , I don't know, but i certainly do. i do not know how much of craps problems are physical. Funny how once one holds out for half a season that nagging injuries follows him around...and i'm not talking about just here, but elsewhere also. To your point, which I have alluded to previously, Coach DOES have to get into craps' head. And that may be a lot harder than it sounds. He has converted essentially the entire team...except craps, who i think is still smarting from not getting his way in contract negotiations...and that is already a couple yrs back.

The folks on this board have convinced me that our #1 WR in FA is not going to be everyone's dream guy...Vincent Jackson, Bowe, Wallace, Colston. Also they have convinced me that our #2 WR is not going to be one of the top 4 or 5, in that all will be gone by pick #30. With that said i will make a brash prediction, even in view of the cap issues, craps himself, need to retain our core D with resignings(with scant money left to go chasing a WR), and here it is:

One of the two of these issues will happen altho i appreciate odds are highly against:

1) Baalke and Harbaugh realize we are so close, they eschew their method of evaluation(read Barrows article) and say, " to heck with it. With Bowe (or put your favorite in here) we can win it all, so damn the torpedoes, we are going to break our scheme this once and get our guy to win us a SB."

2) Their decision already made that this is our yr, they say "with blackmon and the #1 FA WR we can win it all", and decide to trade craps and maybe a 2nd pick for a shot at blackmon, and if not him, one of the other top 3 wRs. They realize they have to give up something to get the #2 WR, and if they find one, esp. blackmon who can come on and just win it for us, that's what they will do. Mel Kiper and Todd McShay have both said blackmon is the best WR to come along in the last 5-10 yrs. In this i can only agree. So I think they abandon their set evaluation/pay scale m.o. and go for the gusto. In that situation, craps would be the guy in the exchange. This one time. Not again, but this one time.

I can hear the laughter already, but because of our unique situation where we are just 2 special WRs away from a SB, i think B& H go rogue and pull these two acquisitions off. In that case there would be no necessity for Coach to work with craps on buying into the system. We also would virtually have to bale on the rest of the draft, save a late rd OG if available, or CB/S, vs OLB/DE. In a balzy move like this, it would almost take another guy thrown in here to make it happen. The candidate? Kap

Okay that is the prediction, or maybe half a prediction, but I am fully in agreement that logic and B& Hs past hx of FAing and drafting is nonpareil. Doing what i propose is flying in the face of the most likely thing to happen. But that actually is why i like it, because it would be so Harbaugh like...a complete overwhelming surprise...and the guy seems full of them.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Barry , for a third post, that was extremely well thot out, cogent, and well written.. Whether others agree with you , I don't know, but i certainly do. i do not know how much of craps problems are physical. Funny how once one holds out for half a season that nagging injuries follows him around...and i'm not talking about just here, but elsewhere also. To your point, which I have alluded to previously, Coach DOES have to get into craps' head. And that may be a lot harder than it sounds. He has converted essentially the entire team...except craps, who i think is still smarting from not getting his way in contract negotiations...and that is already a couple yrs back.

The folks on this board have convinced me that our #1 WR in FA is not going to be everyone's dream guy...Vincent Jackson, Bowe, Wallace, Colston. Also they have convinced me that our #2 WR is not going to be one of the top 4 or 5, in that all will be gone by pick #30. With that said i will make a brash prediction, even in view of the cap issues, craps himself, need to retain our core D with resignings(with scant money left to go chasing a WR), and here it is:

One of the two of these issues will happen altho i appreciate odds are highly against:

1) Baalke and Harbaugh realize we are so close, they eschew their method of evaluation(read Barrows article) and say, " to heck with it. With Bowe (or put your favorite in here) we can win it all, so damn the torpedoes, we are going to break our scheme this once and get our guy to win us a SB."

2) Their decision already made that this is our yr, they say "with blackmon and the #1 FA WR we can win it all", and decide to trade craps and maybe a 2nd pick for a shot at blackmon, and if not him, one of the other top 3 wRs. They realize they have to give up something to get the #2 WR, and if they find one, esp. blackmon who can come on and just win it for us, that's what they will do. Mel Kiper and Todd McShay have both said blackmon is the best WR to come along in the last 5-10 yrs. In this i can only agree. So I think they abandon their set evaluation/pay scale m.o. and go for the gusto. In that situation, craps would be the guy in the exchange. This one time. Not again, but this one time.

I can hear the laughter already, but because of our unique situation where we are just 2 special WRs away from a SB, i think B& H go rogue and pull these two acquisitions off. In that case there would be no necessity for Coach to work with craps on buying into the system. We also would virtually have to bale on the rest of the draft, save a late rd OG if available, or CB/S, vs OLB/DE. In a balzy move like this, it would almost take another guy thrown in here to make it happen. The candidate? Kap

Okay that is the prediction, or maybe half a prediction, but I am fully in agreement that logic and B& Hs past hx of FAing and drafting is nonpareil. Doing what i propose is flying in the face of the most likely thing to happen. But that actually is why i like it, because it would be so Harbaugh like...a complete overwhelming surprise...and the guy seems full of them.

How do you know Crabtree wont be special? Trading him right now would be one of the dumbest things they could possibly do. Crabtree has produced in a PATHETIC offense. He played very well this passed year and really grew into a team player (not that I thought he was a diva) This will be his 4th year in the league, most WRs don't really get it until year 3 or 4 anyways. Why don't we try to get him someone on the other side to relieve the pressure. Hes has s**t opposite him since day 1.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Dadiva, 9ers rule and marvin, we are in agreement that we get a FA #1WR and a hi draft pick #2 WR. If craps stays, you all really believe he is going to make #1WR money? THAT is the question. In this day of cap football, i just don't see Coach and Baalke keeping craps at a #1WR salary. Sure, if he wants to take less money, absolutely keep him. But keep him as an excellent #3 but at a #1 WR paygrade? Man, guys, i just don't see that. Everything these guys have done is by the book, if too expensive work on down the line. And keeping craps at #1money is way past the line that coach and GM have done to present. Therefore, i don;t see craps staying if offered #3 money, and i cannot even remotely believe that B& H are going to get stuck paying craps #1money while paying 2 new WRs #1 and #2 money. Do you?

This is not so much about who we are getting as it is about $$ ,and that was the question i tried to pose...altho i seemed to have stepped all over my genitalia getting to it.

I read this, but you said crap so many times i just couldn't stop laughing and take you seriously.

I believe that we will. I also believe that nobody will believe that's what we did until october or november.

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Dadiva, 9ers rule and marvin, we are in agreement that we get a FA #1WR and a hi draft pick #2 WR. If craps stays, you all really believe he is going to make #1WR money? THAT is the question. In this day of cap football, i just don't see Coach and Baalke keeping craps at a #1WR salary. Sure, if he wants to take less money, absolutely keep him. But keep him as an excellent #3 but at a #1 WR paygrade? Man, guys, i just don't see that. Everything these guys have done is by the book, if too expensive work on down the line. And keeping craps at #1money is way past the line that coach and GM have done to present. Therefore, i don;t see craps staying if offered #3 money, and i cannot even remotely believe that B& H are going to get stuck paying craps #1money while paying 2 new WRs #1 and #2 money. Do you?

This is not so much about who we are getting as it is about $$ ,and that was the question i tried to pose...altho i seemed to have stepped all over my genitalia getting to it.

I read this, but you said crap so many times i just couldn't stop laughing and take you seriously.

exactly.

Not that it matters, but just for clarification, I would refer Goldiggerrr and others to an explanation of the word "craps", and NOT "crap". I refer you to item/ post #260 under the Adam Shefter thread on "9ers seek two top WRs"

I think the 49ers will sign a WR FA and draft high for a WR, but I don't think our front office will break the bank for a WR FA. Of all the units of the 49ers the WR position is the one needing the most attention. Drafting for a #1 or signing a #1, I think, isn't as important as drafting and signing to foster competition at the WR position. I really do believe that the coaching staff is going to bring in a lot of WR's to vie for the #'s 1, 2, and 3 spots. I am on record as stating that our WR hole is way too large to not address in the 1st round. To me the top 7 WR in the draft (Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright, Mohamed Sanu, Alshon Jeffery, Rueben Randle, and Stephen Hill, in that order) are all better than what we currently have on staff now. Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright will be long gone by pick 30. Sanu or Jeffery might be gone as well. Sanu/Jeffery, Randle, and Hill will be there at pick 30 unless there's an unlikely 1st round run on WR's. At pick 60 none of these guys (including Tommy Streeter, Nick Toon, Juron Criner, or Brian Quick) will be available. This is why I think getting one of these guys in the first (and another WR later in the draft) is a must . But I also think we get the best FA WR we can get our hands on. Buy the time training camp is over we will have a bona fide number 1, 2, and 3 guy. Of the guys on our WR staff now I think Josh Morgan is the only WR with the on-the-field- consistency deserving to be at least penciled as #2 or 3 on the depth chart.

As for Crabtree I think his days could be numbered. As has been already stated he hasn't bought into the Harbaugh plan, and Harbaugh doesn't strike me as a coach with too much patents with players that won't or can't buy in (see Spencer). I don't think JH will spend too much time "getting in to head" of Crabs, especially when this team is only a peace or two away from a SB. Besides, he's still getting into the head of Alex. As I have said before, Crabs had a golden opportunity to take full ownership of the #1 spot. I have come to believe that Crabs really never wanted to be a 49er and this attitude has expressed itself in more ways than one throughout his time in San Fran. He is, after all, a Texas guy and grew up a Dallas fan. So its conceivable that he got drafted by a team he hated and still dose. In any event, regardless of what we do in the draft and FA, I don't think the 49ers will continue to pay Crabs number 1 money for number 3 or 4 production. So I would love to see his ass packaged for picks. I really don't like him and I think he is a potential cancer. He's not a team guy and I don't think his attitude – not his talents – fits the identity of this team and scheme of the offense. And at this point we are way too close to tolerate selfish cancerous personalities on the field and locker room.

I'm glad to see most of us voted NO. Here are my questions about the idea that all we need is a top FA WR or #1 WR draft pick.

Alex Smith throws for less than 200 yds per game, so will that attract any top FAs?

Can Smith take advantage of having a top WR or will he and Harbaugh continue to believe that 5 interceptions per season will win you a Superbowl?

Will Harbaugh decide to go more pass-happy next season? If not, why all the frenzy about WRs?

Was the lack of production from WRs in the playoffs really due to crappy WRs or Alex Smith or both?

Originally posted by NorthNiner:
I'm glad to see most of us voted NO. Here are my questions about the idea that all we need is a top FA WR or #1 WR draft pick.

Alex Smith throws for less than 200 yds per game, so will that attract any top FAs?

Can Smith take advantage of having a top WR or will he and Harbaugh continue to believe that 5 interceptions per season will win you a Superbowl?

Will Harbaugh decide to go more pass-happy next season? If not, why all the frenzy about WRs?

Was the lack of production from WRs in the playoffs really due to crappy WRs or Alex Smith or both?

then explain why our only true target in VD excells

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:
I'm glad to see most of us voted NO. Here are my questions about the idea that all we need is a top FA WR or #1 WR draft pick.

Alex Smith throws for less than 200 yds per game, so will that attract any top FAs?

Can Smith take advantage of having a top WR or will he and Harbaugh continue to believe that 5 interceptions per season will win you a Superbowl?

Will Harbaugh decide to go more pass-happy next season? If not, why all the frenzy about WRs?

Was the lack of production from WRs in the playoffs really due to crappy WRs or Alex Smith or both?

then explain why our only true target in VD excells

Uoo, Uoo, Uoo. I know, I know, I know. . . .



Could it be due to crappy WR production?

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I think the 49ers will sign a WR FA and draft high for a WR, but I don't think our front office will break the bank for a WR FA. Of all the units of the 49ers the WR position is the one needing the most attention. Drafting for a #1 or signing a #1, I think, isn't as important as drafting and signing to foster competition at the WR position. I really do believe that the coaching staff is going to bring in a lot of WR's to vie for the #'s 1, 2, and 3 spots. I am on record as stating that our WR hole is way too large to not address in the 1st round. To me the top 7 WR in the draft (Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright, Mohamed Sanu, Alshon Jeffery, Rueben Randle, and Stephen Hill, in that order) are all better than what we currently have on staff now. Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright will be long gone by pick 30. Sanu or Jeffery might be gone as well. Sanu/Jeffery, Randle, and Hill will be there at pick 30 unless there's an unlikely 1st round run on WR's. At pick 60 none of these guys (including Tommy Streeter, Nick Toon, Juron Criner, or Brian Quick) will be available. This is why I think getting one of these guys in the first (and another WR later in the draft) is a must . But I also think we get the best FA WR we can get our hands on. Buy the time training camp is over we will have a bona fide number 1, 2, and 3 guy. Of the guys on our WR staff now I think Josh Morgan is the only WR with the on-the-field- consistency deserving to be at least penciled as #2 or 3 on the depth chart.

As for Crabtree I think his days could be numbered. As has been already stated he hasn't bought into the Harbaugh plan, and Harbaugh doesn't strike me as a coach with too much patents with players that won't or can't buy in (see Spencer). I don't think JH will spend too much time "getting in to head" of Crabs, especially when this team is only a peace or two away from a SB. Besides, he's still getting into the head of Alex. As I have said before, Crabs had a golden opportunity to take full ownership of the #1 spot. I have come to believe that Crabs really never wanted to be a 49er and this attitude has expressed itself in more ways than one throughout his time in San Fran. He is, after all, a Texas guy and grew up a Dallas fan. So its conceivable that he got drafted by a team he hated and still dose. In any event, regardless of what we do in the draft and FA, I don't think the 49ers will continue to pay Crabs number 1 money for number 3 or 4 production. So I would love to see his ass packaged for picks. I really don't like him and I think he is a potential cancer. He's not a team guy and I don't think his attitude – not his talents – fits the identity of this team and scheme of the offense. And at this point we are way too close to tolerate selfish cancerous personalities on the field and locker room.

Jeez, 9erslifer, did I write that? Well, my friend, you have the distinct honor of being in that huge group of two that doesn't appreciate our "#1 WR", nor his attitude, nor his desire to be elsewhere. We seem to be in a very small minority that thinks he wants to be elsewhere, which is just fine by me. Your note that he dropped the ball when it comes to cementing his place here as the #1 WR is exactly what I have thot, beginning with his extended holdout. I often wondered , was that lengthy hold out in part a ploy to get his azz traded before he signed here. His play since that time i have written about extensively, but let's just leave it at....less than exemplary. I am somewhat amazed that there is one other person that thinks our #1 WR by paygrade has played well enough for a #4., and that is no compliment, nor was it meant to be... just an observation.

As for bundling up and trading him, well, lifer, that is heresy....so i guess we are heretics. I have taken a lot of heat of how stupid it is to trade our best WR. Fair enough, but when that guy is playing like a #4, i think we would do well to ship him out ...for equal value. One thing folks forget is that craps isn't JH's boy, nor baalke's. It would not surprise me to see him packaged for a run at a top 3 pick, or maybe some kind of swap with Pissburg for wallace, currently in FA...with a team that is underwater on cap $$. That probably is a non-starter, but bundling him up for a pick or picks....well we will just have to wait and see. Either you are extremely prescient or are very observant. For sure, you are way out of the mainstream. The unspoken locker room effect is unknown. Maybe he is a model citizen, a real team player, but that would be a bit hard to believe watching him on and off the field. Whatever, if he ends up elsewhere, that is fine by me. Let someone else watch him make circus catches...which he is very capable of. The disappearances near the end of season Saints game (3 drops that hit him between the 1 and 5), plus his stellar performance for one 3yd catch in NYG conf title game....well, somehow, i think baalke and Coach H are aware of that. Let's see if they look at this as we do.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Jeez, 9erslifer, did I write that? Well, my friend, you have the distinct honor of being in that huge group of two that doesn't appreciate our "#1 WR", nor his attitude, nor his desire to be elsewhere. We seem to be in a very small minority that thinks he wants to be elsewhere, which is just fine by me. Your note that he dropped the ball when it comes to cementing his place here as the #1 WR is exactly what I have thot, beginning with his extended holdout. I often wondered , was that lengthy hold out in part a ploy to get his azz traded before he signed here. His play since that time i have written about extensively, but let's just leave it at....less than exemplary. I am somewhat amazed that there is one other person that thinks our #1 WR by paygrade has played well enough for a #4., and that is no compliment, nor was it meant to be... just an observation.

As for bundling up and trading him, well, lifer, that is heresy....so i guess we are heretics. I have taken a lot of heat of how stupid it is to trade our best WR. Fair enough, but when that guy is playing like a #4, i think we would do well to ship him out ...for equal value. One thing folks forget is that craps isn't JH's boy, nor baalke's. It would not surprise me to see him packaged for a run at a top 3 pick, or maybe some kind of swap with Pissburg for wallace, currently in FA...with a team that is underwater on cap $$. That probably is a non-starter, but bundling him up for a pick or picks....well we will just have to wait and see. Either you are extremely prescient or are very observant. For sure, you are way out of the mainstream. The unspoken locker room effect is unknown. Maybe he is a model citizen, a real team player, but that would be a bit hard to believe watching him on and off the field. Whatever, if he ends up elsewhere, that is fine by me. Let someone else watch him make circus catches...which he is very capable of. The disappearances near the end of season Saints game (3 drops that hit him between the 1 and 5), plus his stellar performance for one 3yd catch in NYG conf title game....well, somehow, i think baalke and Coach H are aware of that. Let's see if they look at this as we do.

I have been getting flack for my feelings about Crabs (among other things) myself, especially over in the Draft Room. When the coaching staff sent Edwards packing on the first boat smoking out of SF, and when they replaced him with Bret Swain (a threat to no one's roster spot), my first thought was that Crabs could not have asked for better scenario. The coaching staff basically handed him the #1 spot free and clear and he did nothing with it. In the NFL WR's have to read defenses for hot-read adjustments and line-of-scrimmage adjustments – something he consistently failed at. That's a sign of laziness to the playbook. He consistently gave up on plays and not making himself available to his QB on broken plays – that shows a consistent lack of commitment. These things have nothing to do with his talent. Talent got him in the NFL but it won't keep him on the 49ers roster. Going forward, there is no way on earth, in my humble opinion, that this coaching staff is going to put up with such lack of production from their supposed #1 WR. So, I am hoping like hell we trade him, draft WR in the first and a later round, and pick up a WR FA. And if that makes me a blasphemer or heretic then I'll be the best one that I can be. But I refuse to think that one Michael Crabtree is the answer for my beloved 49ers #1 WR spot. He's had ample time to prove his case and couldn't. As it stands at this point the 49ers, in my mind, have one WR on staff that has staring material and that's Josh Morgan (who for me is our most consistent wide-out). All other receiver on our roster are role players at best, including Crabs. How anyone can look at our WR performance during the regular season and playoffs and still think we can go into next season with this same receiving corps is beyond me.

Lifer, hooorah. The webzone is obviously against this about 99%, but that doesn't matter. We got two geniuses, based on their first draft, who are nothing if not observant. I think the guys on the webzone are under rating Coach Hs and Baalke's ability to rate talent, separate wheat from chaf, and move on. They did not miss the fact that craps had #1 all to himself and was very happy to play as he had....uninspiringly. Right now he is a fair #4 talent, maybe C+. We lost the NFC title game due to no WR play. 1 pass for 3 yrds...c'mon. I hope he goes, but will be ok with whatever B& H decide. If he stays he will either have to fish or cut bait. Put differently, the kid needs to learn how to play WR as a #1 or his time here will be short. My guess is he doesn't make it out of TC...but time will tell. IF he does, he will be on short leash and if his skills remain static, he will be gone next yr. My guess is this yr, mainly because he is only guy not on same page as Coach. And that does not fly. You and I are going to be laughed at forever if the kid turns around, and frankly I hope he does. My head tells me otherwise.