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Assessing Receivers and the OL: We NEED Upgrades

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:

So we would in essence have two #1s yet neither being elite... yet.... if that makes sense.

Yes, and I like this approach of having good solid players spreading the field. Along with the TEs and RBs the 9ers already have, this would be awesome. Morgan and Williams, along with Crabtree and Meachem, would be a very solid group. Wondered about Meachem because he was so good and not seeing many balls--glad to hear it is due to quality depth and not an injury. If he is a character guy as well then the 9ers wouldn't have to worry about meltdowns as in NYJ!

Yeah, Meachem has continued to impress me. Neither he nor Crabtree have the lofty status of overshadowing the other. Both are showing roughly the same talent level right now, yet Meachem offers more in size and speed, and would be better than anyone we could get in the draft.

When Meachem was a draft prospect, there was this great article about him. Talked about how he grew up on a farm... everything was, "yes, sir... no, sir"... All kinds of great quality instilled in him. We have cap room that will go quickly once we start turning to re-signing our own FAs... but the only play I am wanting us to make as far as outside targets... is this guy. Then, if for whatever reason we can not? Then, I'll look around some more.
Kind of a draft question but I think it fits here. How early would we be willing to draft a w.r? Are we willing to pull a Atl. and splurge for a Juilio Jones? Do we use our 1st on one? 2nd?

I only ask because before Crabtree started showing up weekly I questioned what the biggest weakness on the team was. To me it was always that play maker W.R. A guy that can get open and use his feet to take it to the house. Or a guy that can win the jump ball in the end zone. Again, a guy that makes plays, a go to guy I guess.

Now I know we have some holes such as secondary, and Oline but is receiver our biggest need? How early do we draft a receiver and what kind of receiver do we get? Is Crabtree a #1? Just a bunch of questions I got I guess.
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Kind of a draft question but I think it fits here. How early would we be willing to draft a w.r? Are we willing to pull a Atl. and splurge for a Juilio Jones? Do we use our 1st on one? 2nd?

I only ask because before Crabtree started showing up weekly I questioned what the biggest weakness on the team was. To me it was always that play maker W.R. A guy that can get open and use his feet to take it to the house. Or a guy that can win the jump ball in the end zone. Again, a guy that makes plays, a go to guy I guess.

Now I know we have some holes such as secondary, and Oline but is receiver our biggest need? How early do we draft a receiver and what kind of receiver do we get? Is Crabtree a #1? Just a bunch of questions I got I guess.

I'm leaning towards the 2nd/3rd rd for a WR... unless maybe a guy like Alshon Jeffery or Floyd somehow slipped.

(keep in mind, we got a long way to go before the draft, lol)

I wouldn't want us trading up to get a WR right now. There seem to be good options waiting for us in rd 2 or 3.

We'll have to wait till FA resolves itself before truly knowing our needs... but I think we will make WR / OL / OLB / and DB our main priorities.
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Kind of a draft question but I think it fits here. How early would we be willing to draft a w.r? Are we willing to pull a Atl. and splurge for a Juilio Jones? Do we use our 1st on one? 2nd?

I only ask because before Crabtree started showing up weekly I questioned what the biggest weakness on the team was. To me it was always that play maker W.R. A guy that can get open and use his feet to take it to the house. Or a guy that can win the jump ball in the end zone. Again, a guy that makes plays, a go to guy I guess.

Now I know we have some holes such as secondary, and Oline but is receiver our biggest need? How early do we draft a receiver and what kind of receiver do we get? Is Crabtree a #1? Just a bunch of questions I got I guess.


Great question(s)! I think it all revolves around FAs being available. If the 9ers can't get a major FA WR, they need to find someone higher in the draft. The reasoning is that all picks are risks, but the higher the choice the more likely the success. A FA is a known NFL quality for the most part.

That said, very few draft choices are immediate super stars so I am hoping for a draft like last year, when many role players were successfullly worked into the mix. Miller, Culliver, Hunter and Aldon Smith have all played major roles, without having to do it all themselves but by being good team players. Out of ten picks, four are contributing, two are likely future starters--CK and Kilgore, and a couple others are potential backups or longshots to be starters. Great draft!

The only postions I would trade up for would be WR, CB or a super OC/RG. If they can fill a spot immediately with a no-lose pick then they could try to fill the other needs with FAs. I like Oldman9er's idea of picking up Meachem in FAcy so the WR corps would be deep and even across the board with very good talent rather than one super star and a drop off. Character is my major concern at WR and I'd hate to pick up a guy who would blow up the chemistry as on the Jets.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jan 6, 2012 at 9:50 AM ]
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yeah, Meachem has continued to impress me. Neither he nor Crabtree have the lofty status of overshadowing the other. Both are showing roughly the same talent level right now, yet Meachem offers more in size and speed, and would be better than anyone we could get in the draft.

When Meachem was a draft prospect, there was this great article about him. Talked about how he grew up on a farm... everything was, "yes, sir... no, sir"... All kinds of great quality instilled in him. We have cap room that will go quickly once we start turning to re-signing our own FAs... but the only play I am wanting us to make as far as outside targets... is this guy. Then, if for whatever reason we can not? Then, I'll look around some more.

I really like what you're thinking. Given the immediate need and the general flaky-ness of wide outs, free agency seems the most promising means for addressing this need. A sane, capable receiver like Meachem would be a very welcome improvement to the team. Most of all, he's very likely to provide an immediate improvement, and I think that's why you prioritize the FA market and draft WRs, as you suggest below, in the second tier rounds.
Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yeah, Meachem has continued to impress me. Neither he nor Crabtree have the lofty status of overshadowing the other. Both are showing roughly the same talent level right now, yet Meachem offers more in size and speed, and would be better than anyone we could get in the draft.

When Meachem was a draft prospect, there was this great article about him. Talked about how he grew up on a farm... everything was, "yes, sir... no, sir"... All kinds of great quality instilled in him. We have cap room that will go quickly once we start turning to re-signing our own FAs... but the only play I am wanting us to make as far as outside targets... is this guy. Then, if for whatever reason we can not? Then, I'll look around some more.

I really like what you're thinking. Given the immediate need and the general flaky-ness of wide outs, free agency seems the most promising means for addressing this need. A sane, capable receiver like Meachem would be a very welcome improvement to the team. Most of all, he's very likely to provide an immediate improvement, and I think that's why you prioritize the FA market and draft WRs, as you suggest below, in the second tier rounds.

... let's just hope our F/O is thinking along these lines. They deserve a bunch of trust from us however they go about things though.
I think we have our receivers with williams and a healthy morgan, morgan when he was healthy was a way more reliable option than crabtree, specially with harbaugh.
I think we need to go after another receiving type tight end, like harbaughs old buddy coby fleener at stanford. Then stop putting soap in the backfield to tip our hand and put dixon in back there so you can either have two fullbacks with dixon and miller, with gore or three running backs with one blocking and two going out for passes. that would allow harbaugh and balke to shore up our line, and defense ever more in the draft and free agency, and lets not forget he loves his tight ends.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
They deserve a bunch of trust from us however they go about things though.

Big time!
Love the thread.

I really think we go WR in the FA route this year. An experienced NFL WR can step in and make more of an immediate impact. A rookie will take way more time to adjust to the NFL and the WCO.

I really think our oline is going to be what we have on the roster at this time. We picked up the serviceable C in FA last year and I see him as getting better in our WCO and a very decent stop gap. Boone, Kilgore and Pearson looked the part when given reps this preseason! I really think the oline is gonna step up in a big way next year with a whole year under their belts. We may shift some guys around but we do have the guys to plug in there.

I think we go D in the 1st two rounds in the draft if we do get our FA WR.

I see us going for a stud cb and pass rushing olb/de in the 1st two rounds. Think Trent will go with the BPA at these positions in the 1st two rounds.

great to be in the position of fine tuning the team instead of wholesale changes!!!
It's funny, I was thinking the EXACT same thoughts you were today driving into work. These areas are the two that need the most attention.

For the most part, the tackles have done a good job. Most of the pressure applied to Alex has been right up the gut. Pulling Chilo and adding Snyder was a stop gap but at some point in time it needs to be addressed. Our biggest weakness has been Goodwin. He lacks the talent to push the NT back and this creates problems both for our run game and our pass protection. I know there are a few guys on this forum that have fallen in love with Peter Konz (Center/Guard) from Wisconsin. I think he'd be ideal for our first round pick although we might have to slide up a few spots to get him. I think replacing Goodwin is the top priority. We can live with Synder at guard for another year (or get lucky with help from free agency).

Moving onto our receivers. Aside from Kyle Williams and maybe Ginn, we don't have any receivers that get FAST separation. Morgan and Crabtree are great intermediate route runners but when we need a quick hitter we really need a Wes Welker type of wideout.

What the Niners need to become an elite team is to hone our ability to 1) pick up 3rd downs and 2) score TDs in the red zone. A Welker type would DO WONDERS.
The 9ers had ten picks last year and they used eight of them very well. When a team is fairly well set, as I see the 9ers, it might be good to trade up for fewer but higher picks. Of course, this all depends on the talent available, but if WR and CB are loaded in this draft the niners might be able to fill all their needs with five or six picks in the 2nd-5th rounds.

If they are targeting one guy they think is dominant that would change my thinking, and as others have said--I trust these guys a lot! I generally prefer FAs to start right away as they are NFL seasoned and ready, fewer mistakes. And I really don't see many players who need to be replaced...a few desperately, but most would be fine with me going forward. Nice postion to be in where you can be picky and select only the spots you need or for BPA.
OFFENSIVE LINE:
Jonathan Goodwin - I agree we might upgrade this but he isn't all bad and had a steeper learning curve than the camp alexers this year. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we grooming a guy on the practice squad?
Adam Snyder - I think Snyder is actually fairly good. If there is a premier guard in the first round you could consider it but it would have to be a this is the best guy on the board thing for me.
Davis - Continues to get better.
Rachal - Garbage? Not sure. Get him off the team? Sadly yes.
Boone - Looks promising.
Kilgore - Unknown, but pre-season looked promising.
Overlooked in this discussion is that most of our line is contractually wrapped up. I think the brass sees promise in the line and will upgrade but only if it is clear that the talent is better in the draft. We willl probably draft guys to "compete" on the line.

RECEIVERS:Josh Morgan - I think morgan is better than we think. Hopefully having hte offseason off will change things. We will likely draft a TE for depth but Byhnam will be back and we have a guy on the practice squad we like. If Blackmon or the kid from South carolina were available I would say pull the trigger. However we will probably have to settle for talent in a later round.

Another key here is the cap. I don't think we have the money to go big after a reciever or a lineman in FA. We have lots of small talent to lock up in role positions and we will pay probably in the 8-10 mil range for Alex and big money for Carlos.

I don't expect any major moves in the offseason FA period. I also expect we will find talent in the draft like this year but it won't make you cheer on draft day. If we went for a guy in FA and we had the money I would be happy with Dwayne Bowe but KC isn't likely to let him go.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Kind of a draft question but I think it fits here. How early would we be willing to draft a w.r? Are we willing to pull a Atl. and splurge for a Juilio Jones? Do we use our 1st on one? 2nd?

I only ask because before Crabtree started showing up weekly I questioned what the biggest weakness on the team was. To me it was always that play maker W.R. A guy that can get open and use his feet to take it to the house. Or a guy that can win the jump ball in the end zone. Again, a guy that makes plays, a go to guy I guess.

Now I know we have some holes such as secondary, and Oline but is receiver our biggest need? How early do we draft a receiver and what kind of receiver do we get? Is Crabtree a #1? Just a bunch of questions I got I guess.


Great question(s)! I think it all revolves around FAs being available. If the 9ers can't get a major FA WR, they need to find someone higher in the draft. The reasoning is that all picks are risks, but the higher the choice the more likely the success. A FA is a known NFL quality for the most part.

That said, very few draft choices are immediate super stars so I am hoping for a draft like last year, when many role players were successfullly worked into the mix. Miller, Culliver, Hunter and Aldon Smith have all played major roles, without having to do it all themselves but by being good team players. Out of ten picks, four are contributing, two are likely future starters--CK and Kilgore, and a couple others are potential backups or longshots to be starters. Great draft!

The only postions I would trade up for would be WR, CB or a super OC/RG. If they can fill a spot immediately with a no-lose pick then they could try to fill the other needs with FAs. I like Oldman9er's idea of picking up Meachem in FAcy so the WR corps would be deep and even across the board with very good talent rather than one super star and a drop off. Character is my major concern at WR and I'd hate to pick up a guy who would blow up the chemistry as on the Jets.

I would not mind us trading up at all for a WR like Walsh did for Rice. When there is a deep class for a position, that just tells me the best one in that class is probably pretty damn good since the competition is higher. Sort of like the 83 QB class. I think teams tend to relax when there's a deep class at a certain position because they think they will still get a solid player even if they don't get the best one. But getting the best one in a deep class could mean getting a HOFer.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I would not mind us trading up at all for a WR like Walsh did for Rice. When there is a deep class for a position, that just tells me the best one in that class is probably pretty damn good since the competition is higher. Sort of like the 83 QB class. I think teams tend to relax when there's a deep class at a certain position because they think they will still get a solid player even if they don't get the best one. But getting the best one in a deep class could mean getting a HOFer.

With the lack of QB's now available, you have to wonder what those teams are going to target now?
I'd just dump Swain and Rachal.. I'd get a mauler in FA at RG (unless a De Castro is still there when we pick). We can get a true #1 WR in FA if we want, or their are several WR in this draft that will be there in the 2nd round.. Also the Raiders dont have much of a draft left, they may trade a WR for a pick (just a thought)..