There are 128 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Assessing Receivers and the OL: We NEED Upgrades

  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
IMHO, Crabtree is okay but not playing up to his pick status. We need a all-hands, money, can get it done even when he's double-covered, and doesn't jump for every pass receiver.

Why can't Crabtree be given the same amount of time to be judged as Smith?

he is in the first year of a new system and has battled injuries. He is improving and will only get better..

This.

If you look at the last eight games of the season (when he was 100% healthy) he put up numbers that would have had him on pace for 80+ receptions and 1,000+ yards.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
IMHO, Crabtree is okay but not playing up to his pick status. We need a all-hands, money, can get it done even when he's double-covered, and doesn't jump for every pass receiver.

I think Crabtree is the guy next year (and this year in terms of playoff hopes). I like Kyle Williams a lot and he'd be a very solid #2 but he's had injury issues - this year it was the concussion, last year it was his ankle I believe. Not sure if he can stay healthy, but he's tough and fast. I think we need a receiver similar to what we thought Braylon Edwards was going to be.

With Gronk and Graham having so much success and us using so many multiple TE looks, i think we try to find a similar body.

Maybe i chamge my mind about Morgan. I think we keep him and find a raw freak like T.O. in the 3rd or 4th.
Konrad Reuland (sp) just waiting there, hella a pass catcher..
Interesting Stat

Neither Staley nor Davis were called for holding all year

Granted, they gave up sacks but neither was flagged for holding

Unlike Highway #77 Kwame

I agree that we need upgrades on the OL -- The line came together after Sheila Rachael was benched -- he's a goner - I guess they like Person and Kilgore and Boone played well in Staley's absence and is the new (ALBEIT 10 years younger) Bary Sims -- the swing tackle / occasional starter / BIG PACKAGE player

As for WRs, I think our success will allow us to sign one of the big FA WRs like Bowe to start opposite Crabtree

As for #3 and #4, we'd have Morgan and Williams

I think it is imperative, depending on the FA signings, to draft a true burner

Ginn can be exclusively ST and the #6 receiver and trick play receiver (end arounds, etc.) although I think he was playing well as a WR before getting hurt
Originally posted by Wodwo:
This.

If you look at the last eight games of the season (when he was 100% healthy) he put up numbers that would have had him on pace for 80+ receptions and 1,000+ yards.

last 7 games would be 1245 yards
[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
last 7 games would be 1245 yards

Yeah, that's why I put the "+" symbol. I did the math before, but couldn't remember the exact numbers.

Kid had been straight ballin'!

I think he has the potential to be a top 5 WR. Yes, even with Alex Smith at QB.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Also, let us not forget that while Crabtree is "only" 6'1'' he has 34 1/4 inch arms. That's a full inch longer than Calvin Johnson.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Also, let us not forget that while Crabtree is "only" 6'1'' he has 34 1/4 inch arms. That's a full inch longer than Calvin Johnson.

Wow that's some hella long arms! I've never been a big fan of his in the first couple of years. Since about the Detroit game though he seems to have really clicked. Now I'm on his bandwagon. He just needs to get into camp & preseason and he'll be on the way to the Pro Bowl as well..... he'll be playing for a new contract next year too.
Originally posted by Southeast:
Staley is not a franchise left- tackle. He needs to be on the right side that is his natural position. Sign Jared Geither put him on the left side much more talented, put staley on right side. Cut chilo, synder ok for back up, move Davis to guard. Look to get Nicks from New Orleans. Now the line is a dominate line. Draft a play maker or two at receiver position.

NO will not let Nicks go. With Evans they form the best guard tandem in the league. Their presence in the middle of the line allow Brees time to do what he does.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Need to upgrade OL depth and get a big tall WR #2 putting Morgan off the team.

We also need to upgrade TE #2 but I think our guy from last year that got injured will do fine.

Also, never draft for depth. draft for starters to replace or starters to move to the bench. that is how you get better.

Bingo. Always draft guys you feel are starter-worthy or soon to be starter-worthy.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
If Morgan is healthy he's probably our best all around receiver. Before he got hurt he was on pace for a really good year. He's got the physical tools, has more reliable hands than Crabtree and is an excellent blocker. Very good RAC. He gets a lot of hate around here for reasons unknown to me.

Morgan sometimes alligator-arms passes -- something I've never seen Crabtree do. Morgan can't make the acrobatic catches that Crabs does either.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 5, 2012 at 8:50 PM ]
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Yeah, that's why I put the "+" symbol. I did the math before, but couldn't remember the exact numbers.

Kid had been straight ballin'!

I think he has the potential to be a top 5 WR. Yes, even with Alex Smith at QB.

Couldn't help yourself could you.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Thanks OTC, this is a great idea for a thread and I don't think many people would argue that our biggest needs next year will be interior line, WR & CB.

Center: It is always tricky to draft a center and expect them to play right away. A rare exception can be pointed to but my preference is for a veteran FA.

RG: That said, I also think Davis needs a vet next to him at RG--FA needed if available or Kilgore.

OT: Strong group with Staley, Davis, Boone and Person (the latter being the only unknown).

WR: Don't care if the WR is 6'6" or 5'9" as long as he is a game changer. Steve Smith is very respected around the league as a tough go to guy...I want that attitude, the one we saw from Edwards for a few weeks. If he can be 6'6", 4.4 40, glue for hand and able to leap tall buildings...fine!
CB: If they can keep all the guys they have then a high draft choice is in order to push the group upward...if they lose a top guy then an experienced FA.

Draft/FA: So, unless an incredible interior lineman falls to the 9ers I would expect them to draft a WR and CB, and go after FA linemen. Youth at WR and CB is not as big a problem, especially as the 9ers will have Crabtree, Morgan and William back.

Basically to break it down simply:

Players that can be replaced / upgraded over: C Goodwin, OG Rachal, OG/C Snyder, WR Ginn, TE Walker, TE Byham.

Now don't get me wrong, I like some of the things some of these players can do for us, but I would welcome a better player obviously, and won't ignore the fact that we could upgrade.

If we draft a starter worthy center, Goodwin could actually slide to RG if Kilgore isn't ready yet.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
IMHO, Crabtree is okay but not playing up to his pick status. We need a all-hands, money, can get it done even when he's double-covered, and doesn't jump for every pass receiver.

I think Crabtree is the guy next year (and this year in terms of playoff hopes). I like Kyle Williams a lot and he'd be a very solid #2 but he's had injury issues - this year it was the concussion, last year it was his ankle I believe. Not sure if he can stay healthy, but he's tough and fast. I think we need a receiver similar to what we thought Braylon Edwards was going to be.

With Gronk and Graham having so much success and us using so many multiple TE looks, i think we try to find a similar body.

Maybe i chamge my mind about Morgan. I think we keep him and find a raw freak like T.O. in the 3rd or 4th.


Yeah, because T.O. like players grow on trees j/k. Seriously the guy that fits that mold to me is Dwight Jones I want him(on this team) bad, but I don't see him fall out of the second round.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I am sick and tired of every WR or OL discussion turning into an Alex Smith debate. Leave Smith out of it. Period.

If we had an elite QB.. I'd STILL be sitting here saying LET'S UPGRADE OUR WR'S SO WE CAN BE EVEN MORE DOMINANT. AND.. LET'S IMPROVE THE OL TO EVEN FURTHER ASSURE THE PROTECTION OF OUR STAR/INVESTMENT.

As it stands, it appears that it's virtually guaranteed that our QB(s) is(are) going to being Alex or/and Colin Kaepernick over the next 3-5 years. But this is not about Alex, it's about the team. We want to see increased team success, but I keep seeing the whiny babies coming out and trashing Alex whenever any such suggestions are made to improve other areas like OL and WR. It's like saying those things automatically implies, "Alex is elite and everything else is holding him back!" Please. We're taking the situation and looking at it for what it is. Our QB situation is irrelevant to the collective skill level of our WR corps or protection ability of the OL. We are looking at the positions individually and assessing their value.

Irrespective of Alex Smith, this is what I see when I look at WR and OL:


OFFENSIVE LINE:

Joe Staley - Probably better than many (including myself) give him credit for, and apparently good enough to make the Pro Bowl.

Mike Iupati - Solid, but still learning the new blocking scheme. I think Staley sometimes got flack for the missed assignments of Iupati because he tried to help him on several of those occasions.

Jonathan Goodwin - Inconsistent. Smart, but physically not able to hold up sometimes, and blows assignments bad when he's off his game.

Adam Snyder - A backup on most other teams. Serviceable for the interim.

Davis - A young, developing player who looks to have improved, and seems promising. Isn't always perfect, but looks to be on the right track.

Rachal - Garbage. Get him off the team.

Boone - Looks promising.

Kilgore - Unknown, but pre-season looked promising.

Person - Unknown, but pre-season looked promising.

Overall evaluation: C and OG are weak spots. Our interior was the most glaring weak area of the OL this season and it's not surprising. We have an aging vet and a swing-player back-up starting at C and RG, respectively. The developing players behind them, OL Kilgore and Person, remain unknowns.



RECEIVERS:

Josh Morgan - Generally reliable, but really just a strong #3 possession type, and is coming off a serious season-ending injury.

Michael Crabtree - the go-to guy and emerging #1 WR, but has battled foot problems in the beginning of each year.

Ted Ginn - extremely inconsistent hands, and inconsistent in both adjusting to deep balls and tracking them in the air.

Kyle Williams - has shown flashes and potential, but still unknown and unproven, and has suffered injuries every year.

Brett Swain - Special teamer. Almost zero value as a receiving option.

Vernon Davis - Dangerous when utilized properly and target often. Best threat aside from Crabtree.

Delanie Walker - Speed for his size creates mismatches, but has serious drop problem (especially with easy ones) and can be careless running with the football. Has an injury history (although he has often played hurt) and is currently recovering from that horrific jaw injury.

Nate Byham - Coming off serious season ending injury. More of a blocking TE, but can catch.

Justin Peele - Back-up, little to no receiving value, and average blocker.


Overall evaluation: We have no true big-time starting NFL receiver opposite Crabtree, we have a potential but unproven slot man, we have no consistent and reliable deep threat, we have no wide receiver over 6-1 to create a size mismatch, and we have an inconsistent and drop-prone #2 TE and a definite unknown in Byham returning from injury to be the #3 TE in our TE-heavy system.


I think Dwight Jones or Peter Konz would do nicely for what we need. Shoot, if things roll our way we could have Jones and Konz, but that is probably unlikely.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Basically to break it down simply:

Players that can be replaced / upgraded over: C Goodwin, OG Rachal, OG/C Snyder, WR Ginn, TE Walker, TE Byham.

Now don't get me wrong, I like some of the things some of these players can do for us, but I would welcome a better player obviously, and won't ignore the fact that we could upgrade.

If we draft a starter worthy center, Goodwin could actually slide to RG if Kilgore isn't ready yet.


Agree...my motto is: upgrade anytime, anywhere you can. Great coaches and GMs are sometimes called cold because they cut guys before they are done but better too early than too late. Of course, I would have a hard time doing that because it often means cutting a guy like Gore who is a big part of the heart of this team. Walsh said goodbye to many of my favorite 9ers because they were on the downside of their careers.

The 9ers aren't really to this point except for Goodwin, who isn't that established in SF. I had heard, around TC time, that Kilgore was being considered at center...any news of that? He has the nasty temperment for the job. Not sure Goodwin would be better than Snyder at RG. Snyder has more versatility, which is valuable.

Gore worries me but he's been exceeding my expectations for years now and I guess they could draft another every down back to sit and learn behind him. As impressed as I have been with Hunter I'm not sure he is gong to replace gore down the road.

It is exciting to think of Baalke having another off-season like the last one. If he hits in the draft as he did last year where almost every player was a value (missed on Johnson ) this team will be incredibly solid.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jan 5, 2012 at 9:35 PM ]
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
I think Dwight Jones or Peter Konz would do nicely for what we need. Shoot, if things roll our way we could have Jones and Konz, but that is probably unlikely.

i dont get the need for konz or any C we have goodwon hes been solid for us and is riding a 3 year contract

just get one down the road or one later in the draft to develop
also if im not mistaken dont we have a C in PS that played for stanford?