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Week 15: Thoughts after re.....ok only watched it once because I was AT the game. ;-)

Originally posted by jdt84_2:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Can't discount the roaming defender underneath. People tend to do that when they mentioned 'wide open' and only noticed the trailing defender. How about Larry Grant going up for Ben's pass underneath. A few inches lowered and it would have been a pick.

i wasn't even talking about the underneath. the ravens game a poster was "screaming" about VD being open but reed was over the top playing centerfield. the poster then says it is VD you have to challenge.

no that is reed, you do not challenge.

Yeah, pretty much judgement call on that to me. Just looking at the distance a defender is away from the ball or receiver can be deceiving because a good defender and a fast one can closed very quickly. Reminds me of Deion Sanders when he actually baited QB by giving the distance in between him and the receiver. Once the ball is in the air, he closes very quickly. INT

Not saying that is the case for every DB but you have to account for that closing speed. You don't take that chance against Reed unless it's a comeback drive late in the game where you absolutely has to take the risk and try to make the play to VD.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Question: Do you also personally attend the 31 other teams' games? Seems to me that if your premise is that one can only fully see a QB's failings or successes by being in the stadium, you'd have to in order to make an apples to apples comparison between them.

In other words, either (a) Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data (viewed in person) or (b) you don't have the same pool of data available to you to compare Smith's performance to every other QBs.


There is another quarterback on the field at our home games. You don't have to travel around the country to make a rational comparison.

Sample size of 8 smith games and 8 games (1 each) of other QBs? Out of 512 total games?

Yes but this is what guys who watch coachs film also say about Alex.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Question: Do you also personally attend the 31 other teams' games? Seems to me that if your premise is that one can only fully see a QB's failings or successes by being in the stadium, you'd have to in order to make an apples to apples comparison between them.

In other words, either (a) Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data (viewed in person) or (b) you don't have the same pool of data available to you to compare Smith's performance to every other QBs.


There is another quarterback on the field at our home games. You don't have to travel around the country to make a rational comparison.

Sample size of 8 smith games and 8 games (1 each) of other QBs? Out of 512 total games?

Yes but this is what guys who watch coachs film also say about Alex.

Yeah "getting the ball out quicker" is another of saying you have wide open guys and you need to hit them.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by jdt84_2:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Can't discount the roaming defender underneath. People tend to do that when they mentioned 'wide open' and only noticed the trailing defender. How about Larry Grant going up for Ben's pass underneath. A few inches lowered and it would have been a pick.

i wasn't even talking about the underneath. the ravens game a poster was "screaming" about VD being open but reed was over the top playing centerfield. the poster then says it is VD you have to challenge.

no that is reed, you do not challenge.

Yeah, pretty much judgement call on that to me. Just looking at the distance a defender is away from the ball or receiver can be deceiving because a good defender and a fast one can closed very quickly. Reminds me of Deion Sanders when he actually baited QB by giving the distance in between him and the receiver. Once the ball is in the air, he closes very quickly. INT

Not saying that is the case for every DB but you have to account for that closing speed. You don't take that chance against Reed unless it's a comeback drive late in the game where you absolutely has to take the risk and try to make the play to VD.

I don't think anyone is that stupid and oblivious to when a player is or isn't wide open. If a receiver has a yard on a DB and is even with a FS who is farther away horizontally, that receiver is wide open. He's talking about deep balls no drag routes where a defender can close much quicker.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Question: Do you also personally attend the 31 other teams' games? Seems to me that if your premise is that one can only fully see a QB's failings or successes by being in the stadium, you'd have to in order to make an apples to apples comparison between them.

In other words, either (a) Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data (viewed in person) or (b) you don't have the same pool of data available to you to compare Smith's performance to every other QBs.


There is another quarterback on the field at our home games. You don't have to travel around the country to make a rational comparison.

Sample size of 8 smith games and 8 games (1 each) of other QBs? Out of 512 total games?

Yes but this is what guys who watch coachs film also say about Alex.

Yeah "getting the ball out quicker" is another of saying you have wide open guys and you need to hit them.

From what we have seen of Alex, I'm sure guys like Cossel aren't just making things up on their hate for Alex Smith.
To me it just seems Alex rarely connects for the big bomb play. Sometimes it is his fault other times it is the Receiver's fault (see Ginn, Ted). The only one he seemed to really connect with for Bomb's was Bryant, and they never counted cuze of old Kwame
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by jdt84_2:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Can't discount the roaming defender underneath. People tend to do that when they mentioned 'wide open' and only noticed the trailing defender. How about Larry Grant going up for Ben's pass underneath. A few inches lowered and it would have been a pick.

i wasn't even talking about the underneath. the ravens game a poster was "screaming" about VD being open but reed was over the top playing centerfield. the poster then says it is VD you have to challenge.

no that is reed, you do not challenge.

Yeah, pretty much judgement call on that to me. Just looking at the distance a defender is away from the ball or receiver can be deceiving because a good defender and a fast one can closed very quickly. Reminds me of Deion Sanders when he actually baited QB by giving the distance in between him and the receiver. Once the ball is in the air, he closes very quickly. INT

Not saying that is the case for every DB but you have to account for that closing speed. You don't take that chance against Reed unless it's a comeback drive late in the game where you absolutely has to take the risk and try to make the play to VD.

I don't think anyone is that stupid and oblivious to when a player is or isn't wide open. If a receiver has a yard on a DB and is even with a FS who is farther away horizontally, that receiver is wide open. He's talking about deep balls no drag routes where a defender can close much quicker.

I never underestimate the depth of stupidity on the Zone. Or the illogical rant
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by jdt84_2:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Can't discount the roaming defender underneath. People tend to do that when they mentioned 'wide open' and only noticed the trailing defender. How about Larry Grant going up for Ben's pass underneath. A few inches lowered and it would have been a pick.

i wasn't even talking about the underneath. the ravens game a poster was "screaming" about VD being open but reed was over the top playing centerfield. the poster then says it is VD you have to challenge.

no that is reed, you do not challenge.

Yeah, pretty much judgement call on that to me. Just looking at the distance a defender is away from the ball or receiver can be deceiving because a good defender and a fast one can closed very quickly. Reminds me of Deion Sanders when he actually baited QB by giving the distance in between him and the receiver. Once the ball is in the air, he closes very quickly. INT

Not saying that is the case for every DB but you have to account for that closing speed. You don't take that chance against Reed unless it's a comeback drive late in the game where you absolutely has to take the risk and try to make the play to VD.

I don't think anyone is that stupid and oblivious to when a player is or isn't wide open. If a receiver has a yard on a DB and is even with a FS who is farther away horizontally, that receiver is wide open. He's talking about deep balls no drag routes where a defender can close much quicker.

the play i am refering to was a mid-deep post.

what (i think) happens is people watching at the game fail to realize the defender has left the receiver because alex just threw the ball.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Question: Do you also personally attend the 31 other teams' games? Seems to me that if your premise is that one can only fully see a QB's failings or successes by being in the stadium, you'd have to in order to make an apples to apples comparison between them.

In other words, either (a) Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data (viewed in person) or (b) you don't have the same pool of data available to you to compare Smith's performance to every other QBs.


There is another quarterback on the field at our home games. You don't have to travel around the country to make a rational comparison.

Sample size of 8 smith games and 8 games (1 each) of other QBs? Out of 512 total games?

Yes but this is what guys who watch coachs film also say about Alex.

Yeah "getting the ball out quicker" is another of saying you have wide open guys and you need to hit them.

From what we have seen of Alex, I'm sure guys like Cossel aren't just making things up on their hate for Alex Smith.

You two have just snowballed a concept. Are you taking the position that "Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data"? And, if so, that that equals needing to get the ball out quicker? And that that is true because Cossel says so and he, presumably, has reviewed all the data?

To me, this is all another example of selective data used to support a pre- determined outcome.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Question: Do you also personally attend the 31 other teams' games? Seems to me that if your premise is that one can only fully see a QB's failings or successes by being in the stadium, you'd have to in order to make an apples to apples comparison between them.

In other words, either (a) Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data (viewed in person) or (b) you don't have the same pool of data available to you to compare Smith's performance to every other QBs.


There is another quarterback on the field at our home games. You don't have to travel around the country to make a rational comparison.

Sample size of 8 smith games and 8 games (1 each) of other QBs? Out of 512 total games?

Yes but this is what guys who watch coachs film also say about Alex.

Yeah "getting the ball out quicker" is another of saying you have wide open guys and you need to hit them.

From what we have seen of Alex, I'm sure guys like Cossel aren't just making things up on their hate for Alex Smith.

You two have just snowballed a concept. Are you taking the position that "Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data"? And, if so, that that equals needing to get the ball out quicker? And that that is true because Cossel says so and he, presumably, has reviewed all the data?

To me, this is all another example of selective data used to support a pre- determined outcome.

if he missed that many open WR

i doubt harbaugh would be calling him pro bowl elite and sign him to a long term contract
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
You two have just snowballed a concept. Are you taking the position that "Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data"? And, if so, that that equals needing to get the ball out quicker? And that that is true because Cossel says so and he, presumably, has reviewed all the data?

To me, this is all another example of selective data used to support a pre- determined outcome.

i agree with you. can i haz ticket to game now?
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Question: Do you also personally attend the 31 other teams' games? Seems to me that if your premise is that one can only fully see a QB's failings or successes by being in the stadium, you'd have to in order to make an apples to apples comparison between them.

In other words, either (a) Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data (viewed in person) or (b) you don't have the same pool of data available to you to compare Smith's performance to every other QBs.


There is another quarterback on the field at our home games. You don't have to travel around the country to make a rational comparison.

Sample size of 8 smith games and 8 games (1 each) of other QBs? Out of 512 total games?

Yes but this is what guys who watch coachs film also say about Alex.

Yeah "getting the ball out quicker" is another of saying you have wide open guys and you need to hit them.

From what we have seen of Alex, I'm sure guys like Cossel aren't just making things up on their hate for Alex Smith.

You two have just snowballed a concept. Are you taking the position that "Smith misses far more open WRs than other QBs, as evidenced by an analysis of all of the data"? And, if so, that that equals needing to get the ball out quicker? And that that is true because Cossel says so and he, presumably, has reviewed all the data?

To me, this is all another example of selective data used to support a pre- determined outcome.

I never equated anything. Smith has limitations that have been pointed out by a number people who see things, rewind, and see them again that only coaches see.

Im sure they aren't calling out Alex's limitations just because they don't like the guy or something.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
if he missed that many open WR

i doubt harbaugh would be calling him pro bowl elite and sign him to a long term contract

No, Harbaugh drafted a second round QB for fun. As for what he said about Alex, well, that will come out at contract time.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I never equated anything. Smith has limitations that have been pointed out by a number people who see things, rewind, and see them again that only coaches see.

Im sure they aren't calling out Alex's limitations just because they don't like the guy or something.

That is a different criticism from the initial one.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I never equated anything. Smith has limitations that have been pointed out by a number people who see things, rewind, and see them again that only coaches see.

Im sure they aren't calling out Alex's limitations just because they don't like the guy or something.

That is a different criticism from the initial one.

Missing plays? No, it ties together.