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Calling Out Players That Need to be Called Out

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
This has been an issue with Alex since he's been in the league. It isn't a coincidence that most of his completions this year have been wide open due to excellent play design. I just don't think he has the throwing ability to make the instantaneous "looky what I found" or "Oh s**t" throws.


Funny thing! The Smith supporters are accused of never saying anything against him and yet almost every post from the anti-Smith folks is about how bad he is. Your comment "isn't a coincidence that most of his completions this year have been wide open due to excellent play design" is bogus. Smith has thrown very good outs to covered WRs where they were the only ones who had a chance to get to the ball. He has also thrown receivers open and placed the ball perfectly to win games. But his throws to wide open receivers are usually dropped...VD in the end zone, Ginn for a sure TD.


Originally posted by Young2Rice:
I think the drop argument has been overblown. the league average for drops is 22. We have 26. Not great but it is right about average...

Drops per pass is quite a different story. Since the 9er offense is predicated on efficiency, not bombs away, every drop is magnified in importance. That goes for every penalty as well.

It isn't possible to quantify exceptional catches per pass but it seems unlikely that any viewer could dispute that most teams with 10 wins have a better rate than the 9ers. There are few catches that have had any wow factor for SF this year. Watching GB and other good teams you see several of these great catches per game.

Drops are drops on any team. And penalties hurt all teams, no matter what. They both hurt you. We aren't the only team who relies on efficiancy...I'm pretty sure all the top teams rely on that. And we have been bombing away....Smith threw the ball deep quite a few times last week and were almost picked or out of bounds. THe deep pass to Ginn who didn't locate it Smith was hit and the ball fluttered. Can't really blame Ginn for that like you can't blame Smith for getting hit while throwing it.

Exceptional catches? I've a seen few. Not anymore then i've seen exceptional throws.

I do watch the GB games and i see Jamarcus Finley dropping it alot. They are a team that hit short passes and occasionally run. Then when the D comes up they throw it deep. Pretty much what we try to to except we run it more and we miss on our long balls due to whatever.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 13, 2011 at 8:12 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Quarterbacking101:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Nice try! GB passes more and Rodgers makes riskier throws than SF and Smith. GB receivers drop as many passes as SF, they just have a third again as many chances to make the drops. They also defend against interceptions, which the SF receivers do not do effectively (Smith just doesn't throw into tight coverage). You seem intent on taking over the thread to speak against Smith at any opportunity, it would be interesting to know if you think the rest of the team are all probowlers or do they deserve some criticism?

Edit: Your comment regarding Smith calling time out every time teams blitz demonstrates you bias and leaves one to wonder how serious you are about reasonable discussion. Not very would be my guess.

Rodgers throws it 3 times as much as Smith? No. More, yes. 3 times as much? False, and hyperbole.

The Broncos seem to drop a lot of passes too. Wonder why? Has nothing to do with all the floaters Tebows throws, does it? Of course not! Denver has the worst receiving corps in the league!

As for the rest of the offense. We have a guy like braylon who had 1600 yards with Derek Anderson of all people. 900 with mark Sanchez in a run first offense. yet he comes here and sucks? Don't buy it. He's good. Inconsisent at times but good.

The TE duo we have in terms of a talent standpoint is the best in the league. 2 TE's that run 4.4's? Who else has that?

Crabtree is not fast but has shown this year when healthy he can create separation deep with double moves. I like him. Maybe not worth the top 10 selection, but he isn't bad.

Kyle Williams is a killer in the slot. Amazing quickness and good deep speed. Also plays bigger than his size.

The O-line is far from great. But good QB's make a line look better with a fast release and sound footwork in the pocket. Alex Smith does not have good footwork. Nor does he have a quick release.

I think a good QB would do wonders for the offense.

Please read carefullly next time! A third again is not three times. A third again is one/third more. Using Denver as a comparison? Why? Are they 10-3?

Wow, another guy who thinks that the combine warrior wins super bowls. I'd rather have a TE who can read defenses and catch the ball every time they get their hands on it. But I would definately tune into your track meet when you have all the TEs line up to see who can go to the superbowl.

Edwards? Have you watched any games this year? He was doing fine with Smith until he was injured, now he can't even look back for the ball. Smith hit him on the hip. Williams is injury prone but I like him and would like to see more of him.

The OLine? Really? Smith is responsible for the OLine looking like cr*p? New center who was allowed to walk by NO, RG replaced by perennial backup, two players with two years experience, and Staley out the first quarter. Yup, all Smith's fault!

Edit: oops! Forgot Crabtree! Just like last year Crabtree was injured early but has come on late. He is a player I really like but those double moves are a double edge sword as they also can throw the timing of the route off. He doesn't always get separation but when he does I like his moves after the catch. If you have noticed, Smith has been hitting him more in stride and lower over the past several games as they gain sync.

Can you explain why Dallas Clark has has 8 drops, more then any niner?

He was a great smart pass catching TE with speed and good hands who now all of a sudden sucks? Oh yeah he went from Manning to Painter. Maybe bad passes have something to do with drops?
Colts don't throw much either.
Delaine Walker and Vernon Davis would be besting in New England, N.O., or GB.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 13, 2011 at 8:24 PM ]
Everyone knew Ginn was garbage. Vernon is the guy the needs to be checked. His hands are awful and now he jumps before trying to catch every pass, which makes him even worse. We need to quit sending him deep and just let him catch quick passes off the line. That where he's most effective.

Kyle Williams looks like the guy with the brightest future. Crabtree looks better this year, but I think the deep ball is a serious hole in his game. On the flipside, Crab is developing into one of the dominate run-blocking WRs in the league.

I never thought too highly of Morgan before, but he was a reliable target for Alex. It'll be nice if we bring him back.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Drops are drops on any team. And penalties hurt all teams, no matter what. They both hurt you. We aren't the only team who relies on efficiancy...I'm pretty sure all the top teams rely on that. And we have been bombing away....Smith threw the ball deep quite a few times last week and were almost picked or out of bounds. THe deep pass to Ginn who didn't locate it Smith was hit and the ball fluttered. Can't really blame Ginn for that like you can't blame Smith for getting hit while throwing it.

Exceptional catches? I've a seen few. Not anymore then i've seen exceptional throws.

I do watch the GB games and i see Jamarcus Finley dropping it alot. They are a team that hit short passes and occasionally run. Then when the D comes up they throw it deep. Pretty much what we try to to except we run it more and we miss on our long balls due to whatever.


Rogers' receivers have dropped one less pass than Smith's but Rodgers has thrown 80 more passes. This represents quite a difference. As far as bombs away goes the stats would not support that. The game on Sunday is the first game of the year that passing was used much more than running. SF is one of the few teams where there is almost perfect balance. Finley and Crabtree are the leaders on their teams for drops but both are good receivers. I have more confidence in Crabtree's hands than VD or Ginn but he has been targeted more often...so leads in drops.

GB does not run much, just enough to open up the pass.

Ginn couldn't locate the pass. Was it fluttering? Not much as it managed to land a few feet from Ginn. If he had kept running it would have hit him in the helmet. The VD pass was better as it hit him in his hands. Not sure that Smith is less accurate on the long ball as he has been hitting those lately and they are either dropped or TDs.

Smith needs to improve but compared to the WRs and OLine he is a veritable pillar of stability.

Edit: did not see your last post until after posting. Dallas Clark? Not one of my favorites and I don't know how many drops he had with Manning versus now. It does make a difference how much practice players have together for being in sync, which is why Smith always had a very high QB rating with VD. That kind of flies in the face of your implication that it's all Smith's fault that VD has forgotten how to catch the ball. I think it much more likely that VD is being asked to catch in different routes and he is not comfortable yet.

As a matter of fact, much of what you might be holding Smith accountable for could be due to the new offense and them not being in sync.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 13, 2011 at 8:50 PM ]
Originally posted by strickac:
Everyone knew Ginn was garbage. Vernon is the guy the needs to be checked. His hands are awful and now he jumps before trying to catch every pass, which makes him even worse. We need to quit sending him deep and just let him catch quick passes off the line. That where he's most effective.

Kyle Williams looks like the guy with the brightest future. Crabtree looks better this year, but I think the deep ball is a serious hole in his game. On the flipside, Crab is developing into one of the dominate run-blocking WRs in the league.

I never thought too highly of Morgan before, but he was a reliable target for Alex. It'll be nice if we bring him back.

Vernon made his living off of stick, drag, and crossing routes in college, with a seam route or deep in every now and then. Streaks, deep posts, and slants do not seem to be something he excels at.

In my opinion, he is best utilized in the following routes: Wheel route, curl, stick, drag, crossing, and occasionally a bubble screen.
Jim Harbaugh

Cmon man

fix that redzone offense
Our entire offensive line come on guys whats the deal. Braylon play ball I know you are a baller. Alex quit outthinking yourself. Roman open up the offense. Thats all I have to say about that.
Originally posted by strickac:
Everyone knew Ginn was garbage. Vernon is the guy the needs to be checked. His hands are awful and now he jumps before trying to catch every pass, which makes him even worse. We need to quit sending him deep and just let him catch quick passes off the line. That where he's most effective.

Kyle Williams looks like the guy with the brightest future. Crabtree looks better this year, but I think the deep ball is a serious hole in his game. On the flipside, Crab is developing into one of the dominate run-blocking WRs in the league.

I never thought too highly of Morgan before, but he was a reliable target for Alex. It'll be nice if we bring him back.
I heard some stat a couple weeks ago that said Vernon had the highest percentage of caught balls thrown to him for all TE's. I couldn't believe it. I miss Alex to Vernon in the redzone. It was all we had and it worked. I think his drops are magnified now because he doesn't get as many targets. Vernons looked pretty mad lately and I think it's about time he sits down Harbaugh and gives him "the business".
Fooookinnnn DROPS!!!!! its to the pointr where if they trade Vernon for something good, im in...
Originally posted by strickac:
Everyone knew Ginn was garbage. Vernon is the guy the needs to be checked. His hands are awful and now he jumps before trying to catch every pass, which makes him even worse. We need to quit sending him deep and just let him catch quick passes off the line. That where he's most effective.

Kyle Williams looks like the guy with the brightest future. Crabtree looks better this year, but I think the deep ball is a serious hole in his game. On the flipside, Crab is developing into one of the dominate run-blocking WRs in the league.

I never thought too highly of Morgan before, but he was a reliable target for Alex. It'll be nice if we bring him back.



Vernon had a ton of deep ones on the 965 yard 13 TD year...
Originally posted by Engleburger:
I heard some stat a couple weeks ago that said Vernon had the highest percentage of caught balls thrown to him for all TE's. I couldn't believe it. I miss Alex to Vernon in the redzone. It was all we had and it worked. I think his drops are magnified now because he doesn't get as many targets. Vernons looked pretty mad lately and I think it's about time he sits down Harbaugh and gives him "the business".

That's a very interesting stat, if confirmed. I'll see what I can do.

In addition to reduced opportunities, I'd also suggest that our expectations for what Davis is capable of doing when given the opportunity further magnifies the significance of his drops. It's merely annoying when anyone else on the team drops a ball, but it's a potentially game changing mistake when Davis finally gets his hands on a ball and muffs it.
As for who I'm calling out: Dashon Goldson.

Alright, Goldson, you've made your point. Yes, a man can actually play safety with one brain lobe tied behind his back. Now let's see what you can do with both lobes.
Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
As for who I'm calling out: Dashon Goldson.

Alright, Goldson, you've made your point. Yes, a man can actually play safety with one brain lobe tied behind his back. Now let's see what you can do with both lobes.



He's played awesome this year. He's one of our best players. In fact he is going to be damn expensive in FA.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:


He's played awesome this year. He's one of our best players. In fact he is going to be damn expensive in FA.

Sure, he's the best safety we've had in years, but that doesn't mean he's a smart player. Wipe out his penchant for really stupid mistakes and you have yourself an elite, rather than very good, player.
Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:


He's played awesome this year. He's one of our best players. In fact he is going to be damn expensive in FA.

Sure, he's the best safety we've had in years, but that doesn't mean he's a smart player. Wipe out his penchant for really stupid mistakes and you have yourself an elite, rather than very good, player.


Agree with both of you! Has been playing well but his mental lapses are hard to swallow, especially when you go for a pick against a guy who is known to be one of the strongest receivers in the NFL. When you do something like that you either succeed or are a dunce. His tendency to make errors at key moments will reduce his FA contract.
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