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Week 14: Thoughts after re-watching the game....

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
I feel the biggest problem is the play calling. The one screen we ran worked, the quick slant worked, these are quick plays that beat an aggressive defense, the running play off the fake fly play was perfect for an aggressive defense but we do not use these plays enough or play like them. If you beat the all out blitz 3 or 4 times they back off and open up room for the rest of the play book. Also Why are we always throwing to Edwards and Ginn on goal line plays. Where are VD,crabs and Williams who has the best TD catch in the corner of the year.

You got me, brother! No clue...but you are spot on IMHO!
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Skelton is HUGE. Thats why they were having trouble with him. It wasn't because he was elusive. It was because the guy is a freakin giant.

As for Ginn...I'm kinda torn. I see some potential there and I'd like to see him in the game, but I do agree that Williams should be the #2.

I'm not say he isn't mobile or decent in the pocket but watch again McDonald whiffed on a bunch of sacks and again Aldon had his legs on one. I'm not saying we should have gotten them all but we missed on way too many. As for the redzone offense I can understand that max protect but honestly what is the point if Alex gets sacked anyways? I would say spread them out and run some slants/ get rid of it. All that happens with max protect is alex gets sacked because our only 2 receivers can't get open or we end up dumping it off and Gore just isn't the receiver he use to be and understandably with his injuries/age.

P.S. If we have that type of problem with Skelton just think what a healthy big ben would do.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:28 PM ]
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Grant did whiff on some tackles, no doubt about that.

Marvin... Yeah, I am not hating on Grant... I was upset when we cut him the 1st go round because I thought he played well. That being said yeah he played solid but he Goldson/him both missed (grant from behind, goldson being retarded and going for the no wrap up knockout hit). Can't remember the other miss but it was there. Like I said he was solid but I can't help but wonder what Pat could have done on some of those over the middle throws/scrambles.

And I think it was NCommand that mentioned it but you are totally right if you watch the cardinals they show a bunch of blitzers and it gets our OL jumpy (sometimes false starts) and they are on their heals and even if they only send 3/4 we get confused because guys will drop and it leaves gaps open because at times two guys will cover 1 while one guy comes free. We actually did this to peyton manning a few years ago where we would drop guys and just confuse the heck out of teams (some times having everyone stand up). This is what I expected from Fangio and we are getting more like conservative 3 man rush with outside rushers at time... not saying blitz all the time because coverage has been solid but there are stretches where I am saying come on bring a blitz.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:34 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Skelton is HUGE. Thats why they were having trouble with him. It wasn't because he was elusive. It was because the guy is a freakin giant.

As for Ginn...I'm kinda torn. I see some potential there and I'd like to see him in the game, but I do agree that Williams should be the #2.

I'm not say he isn't mobile or decent in the pocket but watch again McDonald whiffed on a bunch of sacks and again Aldon had his legs on one. I'm not saying we should have gotten them all but we missed on way too many. As for the redzone offense I can understand that max protect but honestly what is the point if Alex gets sacked anyways? I would say spread them out and run some slants/ get rid of it. All that happens with max protect is alex gets sacked because our only 2 receivers can't get open or we end up dumping it off and Gore just isn't the receiver he use to be and understandably with his injuries/age.

P.S. If we have that type of problem with Skelton just think what a healthy big ben would do.

DOn't want to imagine....but we won't have to. Big Ben isn't gonna be moving around too good next Monday. I just heard on Twitter (Adam Shefter) that the Steelers and the league think that Harrison could be suspended for the Niners game.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Skelton is HUGE. Thats why they were having trouble with him. It wasn't because he was elusive. It was because the guy is a freakin giant.

As for Ginn...I'm kinda torn. I see some potential there and I'd like to see him in the game, but I do agree that Williams should be the #2.

I'm not say he isn't mobile or decent in the pocket but watch again McDonald whiffed on a bunch of sacks and again Aldon had his legs on one. I'm not saying we should have gotten them all but we missed on way too many. As for the redzone offense I can understand that max protect but honestly what is the point if Alex gets sacked anyways? I would say spread them out and run some slants/ get rid of it. All that happens with max protect is alex gets sacked because our only 2 receivers can't get open or we end up dumping it off and Gore just isn't the receiver he use to be and understandably with his injuries/age.

P.S. If we have that type of problem with Skelton just think what a healthy big ben would do.

DOn't want to imagine....but we won't have to. Big Ben isn't gonna be moving around too good next Monday. I just heard on Twitter (Adam Shefter) that the Steelers and the league think that Harrison could be suspended for the Niners game.

Before yesterday I wanted them to be at full strength when we played them. Now I don't give a s**t i just want to win.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Before yesterday I wanted them to be at full strength when we played them. Now I don't give a s**t i just want to win.

this x 50 because it won't get any easier at Seattle and Rams should be winnable but on the road makes it harder


We have been a pretty good tackling team this year and it kind of went out the window yesterday. Goldson reverted to his past knockout self... he was doing much better this year... Also, on the Fitz TD he gambled and lost... if he picks it it isn't a problem but IF he wants to gamble you can't lose. p.s loved the hustle from whitner on fitz runs but Brown jogged it out.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:38 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Before yesterday I wanted them to be at full strength when we played them. Now I don't give a s**t i just want to win.

this x 50 because it won't get any easier at Seattle and Rams should be winnable but on the road makes it harder

Yeah...I wanted a straight up battle, but now I want every advantage possible to get that #2 seed.

If we lose another game, I think the #2 seed is gone. I don't think the Saints will lose another game.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:37 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Before yesterday I wanted them to be at full strength when we played them. Now I don't give a s**t i just want to win.

this x 50 because it won't get any easier at Seattle and Rams should be winnable but on the road makes it harder

Yeah...I wanted a straight up battle, but now I want every advantage possible to get that #2 seed.

If we lose another game, I think the #2 seed is gone. I don't think the Saints will lose another game.

they won't, their schedule is butter.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
I feel the biggest problem is the play calling. The one screen we ran worked, the quick slant worked, these are quick plays that beat an aggressive defense, the running play off the fake fly play was perfect for an aggressive defense but we do not use these plays enough or play like them. If you beat the all out blitz 3 or 4 times they back off and open up room for the rest of the play book. Also Why are we always throwing to Edwards and Ginn on goal line plays. Where are VD,crabs and Williams who has the best TD catch in the corner of the year.

You got me, brother! No clue...but you are spot on IMHO!
Crabtree runs a very nice slant he doesn't get a lot of YAC but the play seems to go for 8 to 10 yards everytime. Roman seems to call a lot of passes down the sideline at about 20 yards in distance. It is like they have totally forgot the middle and the TE down the seam. These heavy blitzes that teams are now sending are also blowing up those slow developing sweeps and pitches were the guard pulls. Your analysis was spot on too.
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Crabtree runs a very nice slant he doesn't get a lot of YAC but the play seems to go for 8 to 10 yards everytime. Roman seems to call a lot of passes down the sideline at about 20 yards in distance. It is like they have totally forgot the middle and the TE down the seam. These heavy blitzes that teams are now sending are also blowing up those slow developing sweeps and pitches were the guard pulls. Your analysis was spot on too.

Not that we can take the sideline routes out of the playbook but we aren't connecting on those at all. Alex isn't the best at those routes and neither are our WRs. One other play I'd like to see more quick throws to the WRs. They weren't working well last year but we seem to be getting better at them this year. That along with more screens and slants like I mentioned before. As for the redzone we need to use VD and Walker's big bodies to box guys out. Just have to watch out for ints but shotgun and or spreading out our WRs would help... simple curls with a big bodied TE/WR should get the job done. Too much bunching and like I said before too much pulling of the guards in the redzone. We clog things up too much. And for the seam it's hard with the TV angles to know if that route has been called much or if it open ever but the year VD had his 13 tds that was what a lot of them game from and then teams started figuring it out and putting safeties over the top. I would assume they are taking it away.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2011 at 6:08 PM ]
Couple more final points:

Last drive, refs called an absolute ghost false start on VD (refs still allow players to play and hit Smith). It was 2nd and 5, moves to 2nd and ten and eventually, come up one yard short. Williams is SUPER quick/fast and is open more than any of our receivers by far. Gore totally whiffed on the block that lead to the incompletion to Williams (who was open again). And finally, where our secondary is very weak is in recovery. For instance, if a WR runs right at them and suddenly stops and comes back to the throw, they are almost always open b/c guys like Brown are very slow in their recovery. Recognition is good, they play well down hill but can't recover when a receiver breaks back. Consequently, this is Williams best play. We need to do that a few times and then have him stop/go for an easy TD.
Grant may have missed a tackle or two, but he was around the ball a lot more than Bowman.
[ Edited by Hopper on Dec 12, 2011 at 7:09 PM ]
Lots of good observations about what many , or most would say is PPP.. pi**poor playcalling. Which brings up the question: Is Coach Harbaugh calling the plays or just listening in and adding observations? Based on what I saw of him at Stanford, playcalling here does not have his creative hallmark calls in them. My money is on Roman making the O calls, when the best playcaller on the team is the HC. Mind you, this is just a guess, but the fuster cluck with the double T.O., of which the second was nullified because you can't make two TO calls back to back, so we got a TO and a 5 yrd penalty. Based on that, I am almost certain Roman is slow thinking the plays, then they get relayed, Harbs thinks a moment and next thing you know clock is at 3 seconds. If i am right, Coach should just slide on into calling plays, let Roman help out with input on game plan and then sit his backside down upstairs and make comments on a weakness he sees. Let our HC, who also was an OC, QB and QB coach...a guy with real bona fides...let Coach H make the calls. I'm sure he doesn't want to hurt Roman's feelings (if my guess is right) , but no one would dispute our playcalling is atrocious. And Harbaugh was KNOWN as a great playcaller at stanford. Time for the right guy to be making the calls. He owes the team, and NOT Roman.

Again, I reiterate this is just supposition. I do know for sure that JH was a terrific playcaller at Stanford...and our playcalling is awful.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Lots of good observations about what many , or most would say is PPP.. pi**poor playcalling. Which brings up the question: Is Coach Harbaugh calling the plays or just listening in and adding observations? Based on what I saw of him at Stanford, playcalling here does not have his creative hallmark calls in them. My money is on Roman making the O calls, when the best playcaller on the team is the HC. Mind you, this is just a guess, but the fuster cluck with the double T.O., of which the second was nullified because you can't make two TO calls back to back, so we got a TO and a 5 yrd penalty. Based on that, I am almost certain Roman is slow thinking the plays, then they get relayed, Harbs thinks a moment and next thing you know clock is at 3 seconds. If i am right, Coach should just slide on into calling plays, let Roman help out with input on game plan and then sit his backside down upstairs and make comments on a weakness he sees. Let our HC, who also was an OC, QB and QB coach...a guy with real bona fides...let Coach H make the calls. I'm sure he doesn't want to hurt Roman's feelings (if my guess is right) , but no one would dispute our playcalling is atrocious. And Harbaugh was KNOWN as a great playcaller at stanford. Time for the right guy to be making the calls. He owes the team, and NOT Roman.

Again, I reiterate this is just supposition. I do know for sure that JH was a terrific playcaller at Stanford...and our playcalling is awful.

I remember early in his pressers, he discussed having veto power in playcalling, but I personally don't like a bureaucratic process, it just makes things a little indecisive.
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?