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Week 14: Thoughts after re-watching the game....

  • Shemp
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 26,734
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
What did Crabs say after the game ?

"I have no words, really," Crabtree said. "I saw a lot of opportunities. I really don't want to say anything negative. You know what I'm saying? But it's hard.

"When you're trying to be the man, and you're trying to do what you're supposed to do, trying to grind it out, trying to be the receiver, and you don't get the ball. It's hard. It's disappointing. I don't know, man. I don't need to be talking right now."

This what Crabtree is talking about
Crabtree caught seven passes for 63 yards, but he was a spectator in the red zone. The 49ers ran 11 plays inside the Cardinals' 20-yard line. Crabtree was on the sideline for four of those plays, and he was not the intended target on any of the other seven plays.




Braylon
"Talk to them," Edwards said of the other receivers. "They played. I didn't."


Basically he's saying he was open but didnt get the ball.

that's my take as well.
crabs def needs to be targeted in the RZ more! He has the best hands on the teams, Im tired of seeing brick hands ginn and edwards have them go off their fingers every time! Edwards esp is the least on the same page with alex, its clear cause the passes/ routes are never in the same place!
  • GORO
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  • Posts: 1,822
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.


Where is the slant that is a staple of the westcoast offense?
I was at the game, endzone seats and the fault goes in this order:
1. Smith
2. O-line
3. Playcalling

Smith could have ran for 30-40 yards. He had a bunch of open running lanes especially around the goal-line. I'm tired of hearing about Smith's mobility and he never takes advantage of it. He also missed on some really poor throws. I've seen high school kids with better accuracy on some of those throws. The o-line continues to struggle on the road in loud environments. Iupati was getting beat a lot. Several 3rd & shorts and we go for long passes???? Smith hits 1 out of 10 at best. Lack of run calls and a fade route to Ginn (5' 10")???? How bout some screen plays to neutralize the blitz?

Poor Effort
Originally posted by GORO:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.


Where is the slant that is a staple of the westcoast offense?

We run that play a lot, I think too much actually
Another thing I wanted to note, and I believe this goes back to play-calling, poor blitz pickup and recognition and the inability to get open/find open receivers quickly, was that we could NOT get any positive yards on 1st downs. This is HUGE for our type of offense. People keep talking about how poor our third down %'s are but look at what happens on 1st downs to get us into these 3rd and longs; penalties, lots of negative plays, etc. and THAT played right into the strengths of a blitz-happy effective team. To me, it starts with the first down calls...

Anyone else notice this? Not just this week but every week...
Re: Number 7 with the safeties. They better get that corrected quickly or there's a big chance that Wallace goes off on Monday. We had trouble with a similar guy in DeSean Jackson all the way back in Week 4.
Thanks Marvin. I agree a lot with NCommand -- its obvious he is as frustrated as the team! LOL.

DEFENSE -- had some uncommon breakdowns today --
#1 the missed some sacks because Skelton somehow broke out of tackles, that needs to be cleaned up;
#2 they seemed to be pressing a bit for INTs, which broke down their typically disciplined coverage, that needs to be cleaned up.
#3 I agree, the lack of creative pressure is making us predictable to the opponent. They need to do a lot of work here, the talent seems to be available to be more creative.

OFFENSE -- ouch, this is a "back to the drawing board game." They have been exposed in by the Raven's, even the Ram's keeping them out of the end zone anc causing problems with pressure all day, and now AZ. They need to find some scheme answers fast -- and I agree, they need to change it up after halftime a bit. It was very telling that the Raven's said after the game -- "That the 49ers aren't that complicated, they have a lot of sets and a lot of motion, but they run the same plays out essentially." The 49ers need to fix this predictability fast.

O - PROBLEMS:
#1 OL -- they absolutely give away the LS on passes and rushes. They are completely ineffective running out of a straight pro-set. They manufacture a running game by adding a blockers to the interior, either with heavy sets or by bringing TE or receivers down (WAM blocks). Pass blocking is a joke - what pocket?
#2 QB play - this is NOT a ASmith bash -- but if the OL can't hold in pass protection, AND you can't burn a defense for blitzing then you have a huge problem. And the scheme and QB are not beating the blitzes. Until they can, this will only get uglier. This needs to be a top priority for the scheme adjustments.
#3 Lack of screens to keep defense honest. Maybe the coaches know the talent isn't there for this. But from a simple fan's perspective, you have a stacked box that the OL can't win anyway, you may as well move them out to see if they can beat a smaller target! LOL. I would run Hunter as the screen receiver, he has more burst than Gore.
#4 WR/TE -- when I watch other games, that are a few times in games I see receivers WIDE open. They are either beating their defender OR scheme is working. Have you ever seen a 49ers receiver wide open -- I haven't. (Maybe that first play against the Ravens DWalker was open). Then add in the drops or deflections and they wonder why a QB is hesitant to throw?

Lastly, the true WC offense was so hard for a defense to solve because it ran multiple plays from the same set -- 2 WR, 1 TE, and split back HB and FB. This offense has not been able to generate anything from a base set. The coaches have generated success with innovative schemes. They may be out of schemes. The offense needs to grow up into a real NFL offense -- and fast.
Originally posted by Shaj:
that's my take as well.


Originally posted by Shaj:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
What did Crabs say after the game ?

"I have no words, really," Crabtree said. "I saw a lot of opportunities. I really don't want to say anything negative. You know what I'm saying? But it's hard.

"When you're trying to be the man, and you're trying to do what you're supposed to do, trying to grind it out, trying to be the receiver, and you don't get the ball. It's hard. It's disappointing. I don't know, man. I don't need to be talking right now."

This what Crabtree is talking about
Crabtree caught seven passes for 63 yards, but he was a spectator in the red zone. The 49ers ran 11 plays inside the Cardinals' 20-yard line. Crabtree was on the sideline for four of those plays, and he was not the intended target on any of the other seven plays.




Braylon
"Talk to them," Edwards said of the other receivers. "They played. I didn't."


Basically he's saying he was open but didnt get the ball.

that's my take as well.

How bout seeing the ball when Alex throws it to you deep down the sideline? Perfect throw over the db where only Crabs could have jumped and made a play but guess it was too much to ask, oh wait he is asking for the ball more? Makes sense now, I know I'd want to target him more often, its not like hes ever tipped up a perfect pass for a pick, run the wrong route or not seen a ball tossed his way right?
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Excellent post, as usual - please keep them coming.

I feel the Steelers game will be a huge test for our coaching staff. The Cards D is a soild unit and played well. It was apparent that the OLIne could not handle the types of blitz packages thrown at them. The Steelers will be bringing more of the same and new types of blitzes. The challenge will be to counter the blitzes. It is a pass or fail test. If we pass, the offense moves to another level and opponents will then have to figure out a counter for that. I think your idea of going back to the Bill Walsh Playbook is the answer - I hope the coaching staff uses it.

The DLine IS wearing down! And that is another coaching decision. Next FA period and draft we'll need to address that as well as the Oline.

Alex Boone played well - I really like to see more of him in our remaining games. He'll need more experience, I feel Staley will once again be an injury victim.

Edwards is not cutting it and the more we use Williams the better we'll play. In addition, the experience will help him and help the coaches acess future needs like a BIG, FAST WR.

Grant was an excellent pick up and a keeper. I wonder if he could also play OLB? Aldon needs to be on the field full time.

Alex Smith, has improved BUT needs to play better. He played well for the most part until the red zone. The blitzes and dropped passes really impacted his performance.

One last point, Crabtree's blocking was dynamite. JH needs to review the Walsh playbook and see how John Taylor was used to make better use of Crab's talents.

Vegas, what up my man. And I have to agree with this 100 %. There hasnt been one game, since the start, not one game, where we didnt have a key drop or pick up the blitz for a second longer.

Smith didnt play great, he played avg. And like some posters agreed with me, He did play good enough to win. Dont drop either Ginn throw, long bomb, or outside shoulder fade, and we win. Walker, Edwards, and Hunter catch those balls, then an entirely diff game. I put the blame on him for having a share in the loss. But when we all moan about a good QB making things happen, the WR's sure do help their QB out.

Seems like in our Key moments, when the QB tries to make something happen, the WR doesnt meet him half way. At least on a consistent basis.
I don't know. Something ain't right. How many times have receivers lost sight of Alex' passes now? Crabs once? Ginn yesterday?

Something just doesn't smell right.

After getting some sleep and thinking this one over, I think that Smith probably played one of his worst games of the season yesterday. His play seems to be regressing. I hope his confidence isn't, because he's been playing at an extremely high level through most of the season.

All QB's have bad games. It's part of the territory. Look what Drew Brees did against the Rams for gosh sakes. Tony Romo seems to blow it regularly with Dallas. Nobody's perfect.

But I don't think that Alex gave us his typical "Alex" performance. He played just a little bit worse.

But I can't pin this one on him. As bad as it was, he didn't get burned repeatedly by a backup QB. The DB's should all collectively change their names to Toast I, Toast II, Toast III and Toast IV. They were horrible. And we did absolutely no blitzing against Skelton, which is inexcusable.

Plus, the officiating crew should also be canned for general incompetence.
Originally posted by HearstFan:
Thanks Marvin. I agree a lot with NCommand -- its obvious he is as frustrated as the team! LOL.

DEFENSE -- had some uncommon breakdowns today --
#1 the missed some sacks because Skelton somehow broke out of tackles, that needs to be cleaned up;
#2 they seemed to be pressing a bit for INTs, which broke down their typically disciplined coverage, that needs to be cleaned up.
#3 I agree, the lack of creative pressure is making us predictable to the opponent. They need to do a lot of work here, the talent seems to be available to be more creative.

OFFENSE -- ouch, this is a "back to the drawing board game." They have been exposed in by the Raven's, even the Ram's keeping them out of the end zone anc causing problems with pressure all day, and now AZ. They need to find some scheme answers fast -- and I agree, they need to change it up after halftime a bit. It was very telling that the Raven's said after the game -- "That the 49ers aren't that complicated, they have a lot of sets and a lot of motion, but they run the same plays out essentially." The 49ers need to fix this predictability fast.

O - PROBLEMS:
#1 OL -- they absolutely give away the LS on passes and rushes. They are completely ineffective running out of a straight pro-set. They manufacture a running game by adding a blockers to the interior, either with heavy sets or by bringing TE or receivers down (WAM blocks). Pass blocking is a joke - what pocket?
#2 QB play - this is NOT a ASmith bash -- but if the OL can't hold in pass protection, AND you can't burn a defense for blitzing then you have a huge problem. And the scheme and QB are not beating the blitzes. Until they can, this will only get uglier. This needs to be a top priority for the scheme adjustments.
#3 Lack of screens to keep defense honest. Maybe the coaches know the talent isn't there for this. But from a simple fan's perspective, you have a stacked box that the OL can't win anyway, you may as well move them out to see if they can beat a smaller target! LOL. I would run Hunter as the screen receiver, he has more burst than Gore.
#4 WR/TE -- when I watch other games, that are a few times in games I see receivers WIDE open. They are either beating their defender OR scheme is working. Have you ever seen a 49ers receiver wide open -- I haven't. (Maybe that first play against the Ravens DWalker was open). Then add in the drops or deflections and they wonder why a QB is hesitant to throw?

Lastly, the true WC offense was so hard for a defense to solve because it ran multiple plays from the same set -- 2 WR, 1 TE, and split back HB and FB. This offense has not been able to generate anything from a base set. The coaches have generated success with innovative schemes. They may be out of schemes. The offense needs to grow up into a real NFL offense -- and fast.

Nice observations! Yeah, when you give up almost 300 yards to a backup QB that was not expected to play, you've had a terrible day esp. when you consider we had three TO's, amazing field position, owned the TOP game and had a ton of trips into the red zone. Scheme and an inability to adjust to covering their ONLY threat was key...how many times was Fitzgerald 1x1 on just Brown and Goldson with no help...or late help? Like Whitner says, it was on them. Skelton had ALL day to survey 2nd, 3rd, 4th and even 5th options. We were getting consistent pressure off the edges but we had nobody in clog the middle and get those all-important "coverage sacks." To me, it just comes down to football 101. When you have more talent than another team, you exploit their weakness and minimize their strengths. Their weakness was that they had a backup QB in there who wasn't expecting to play...you get after him and MAKE him beat you. On defense, you cover Fitzgerald with 10 guys if you need to or bring exotic blitz packages and double him, over/under. Simple. You also don't play 10 yards off all of their receivers on 3rd and 5. Simple. Fundamentals. Angles. I agree, these guys were looking to pad their stats, no doubt esp. Goldson. You nailed the OL points. Seriously, if anyone goes back and watches the game, just put the game on mute and watch which direction the OL moves; it moves backwards most of the time.
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 12, 2011 at 1:10 PM ]
I would really love to get conclusive evidence on the red flag and when it was thrown. That was such a huge f**king swing.
I think we will bounce back and play better against Pitt but yesterdays game is a reminder of how fast things can go wrong if we have to play New orleans in the Superdome. Everything was going wrong yesterday and we still had the lead but those things kept happening the rest of the game because the hostile environment I think kept us guessing and making mistakes. We played well on the road in the first half of the year but against the Ravens and now Arizona, it looked like we were razzled by the pressure and noise.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Good points, and thanks for the correction: "outlet receiver" rather than "hot read."

BTW, I agree with your "sprint right" call. Move Alex out of the pocket, then look for Crabs or VD in the endzone. It's worked before.

I remember watching the two pointer in one of the 49er games, and saw sprint right option was called, with crab motioning out of the backfield and run to perfection.