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Week 14: Thoughts after re-watching the game....

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?

Because thats the play that's called. Just because its not the play thats called doesn't mean Alex can't do it.

Its like the TE seam route. That was the bread and butter play for the O the last several years. How many times have we seen it THIS year?

I understand they have to run the play called. But I'm saying why can't they be a little more diverse with the redzone playcalling? From what I'm seeing is, they go into these "spread" formations with Alex in the gun, but there are really only two pass plays that come out of it, either a convenient slant, or fade to Braylon.

In comparison to other teams, for example the Patriots, in the red zone, they run spread, but Brady makes all kinds of throws, from quick outs to Welker, tight squeezes to Hernandez sitting in the middle, or Gronkowski running in the back of the end zone.

In my opinion, someone is scared to get risky, either Greg Roman, or Alex Smith.

That I agree with. That was my point actually...the issue is playcalling.

That's going to be the demise of this team, at least for this year. There really isn't no cure unless they get back to the run game in the redzone, and perhaps start passing out of run formations.

I honestly think putting Alex in the gun inside the 10 yard line will never work, he gets put into a situation where HAS to make extremely quick horizontal reads, and make fast accurate throws into tight windows. That's just not Alex Smith's strength. He'd rather play it safe.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?

Because thats the play that's called. Just because its not the play thats called doesn't mean Alex can't do it.

Its like the TE seam route. That was the bread and butter play for the O the last several years. How many times have we seen it THIS year?

I understand they have to run the play called. But I'm saying why can't they be a little more diverse with the redzone playcalling? From what I'm seeing is, they go into these "spread" formations with Alex in the gun, but there are really only two pass plays that come out of it, either a convenient slant, or fade to Braylon.

In comparison to other teams, for example the Patriots, in the red zone, they run spread, but Brady makes all kinds of throws, from quick outs to Welker, tight squeezes to Hernandez sitting in the middle, or Gronkowski running in the back of the end zone.

In my opinion, someone is scared to get risky, either Greg Roman, or Alex Smith.

That I agree with. That was my point actually...the issue is playcalling.

yeah im gonna say playcalling and here is my no 1 reason. Smith is only second to I think Rodgers in Red zone efficiencey and conversion. ONly having 2 int's in over 130+ tries is pretty damn good if i do say so myself.

FAct: This is the one area, that Smith has been almost flawless in, and thats the redzone. I say fact because even when we sucked it was still proven. This year they pointed it out tons of times, and especially when we played the Cowboys, and the Giants.

I also see more runs in the redzone, than passes. And with the playcalling, when it is a good play, the one thing i dont see from our WR's that I saw tons of times in yesterdays game, when the play broke down, ALL THE receivers moved around to help the QB make a play, and eventually they all almost got open in a spot.

Why was it on that last drive, did everyone see that our WR's seemed to have all stopped in their tracks, watched Smith Scramble, and if anything a taller guy should of been looking for Smith, like CRabs or BRaylon. But nope, he throws to Hunter, who touched the ball with two hands.

Other main thing and lets just be honest. Skelton had much more time, to make his reads and stay in the pocket. And in the second half, he scrabled when the line opened holes. I can count on a few fingers how many time a decent hole opened up for the QB to either step up in, or around.
Two things, and first is O playcalling. I fear Roman is doing this, and believe Coach Harbaugh to be a lot better at it. I would personally like to see Coach H call all the plays, and Roman sit up in box and make suggestions as to what he sees. The screw up with two T.Os or 1 T.O and a 5 yd penalty, make me think this is coming from upstairs and should be called from down on the field by our best play caller...JH, and NOT Roman. What we are doing now doesn't work against premier teams...so change it.

OL and inability to pickup blitz or block it: No question there was a frigging freeway on either side of C in the game. Man they poured thru there like rats on a sinking ship. But this is again directly related to play calling, because if Coach H had done as he did in last 3 mins of 1st half of Ravens game, we would not have the problem. Basically we went no huddle and threw nothing but 1 steppers, and moved the RAvens backward all the way down the field. Same goes in RZ, when I think we would be well advised to go no huddle, just like Brady and formerly Peyton do, and not let D change D packs on us. No huddle and quick hittting slants and outs, all 1 steppers would have been an answer to many of the problems we didn't solve on Sunday. When the D finally backs off LOS, and quits bringing 5,6,or 7 guys, frank runs thru holes, and alex can return to his game plan. When those jokers are all stacked up on line in box 8 or however many, go with quick hitters, and watch them back off and slow down the rush. No secret, our OL doesn't know who to block on a X rush. Nor do they know how to block 3 guys right up the gut. Throw one steppers and watch that problem just go away. If not, expect next Mon nite to be a rehash of Texans, Saints, Balt, AZ and, sigh, Pitts.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?

Because thats the play that's called. Just because its not the play thats called doesn't mean Alex can't do it.

Its like the TE seam route. That was the bread and butter play for the O the last several years. How many times have we seen it THIS year?

I understand they have to run the play called. But I'm saying why can't they be a little more diverse with the redzone playcalling? From what I'm seeing is, they go into these "spread" formations with Alex in the gun, but there are really only two pass plays that come out of it, either a convenient slant, or fade to Braylon.

In comparison to other teams, for example the Patriots, in the red zone, they run spread, but Brady makes all kinds of throws, from quick outs to Welker, tight squeezes to Hernandez sitting in the middle, or Gronkowski running in the back of the end zone.

In my opinion, someone is scared to get risky, either Greg Roman, or Alex Smith.

That I agree with. That was my point actually...the issue is playcalling.

That's going to be the demise of this team, at least for this year. There really isn't no cure unless they get back to the run game in the redzone, and perhaps start passing out of run formations.

I honestly think putting Alex in the gun inside the 10 yard line will never work, he gets put into a situation where HAS to make extremely quick horizontal reads, and make fast accurate throws into tight windows. That's just not Alex Smith's strength. He'd rather play it safe.
Yes, I'd rather see a play action, sprint right, throw to Vernon or Crabs. The LBs would have to respect Gore off tackle, and that should leave somebody open in the endzone, shouldn't it? And that plays to Alex's strength, his ability to sprint out, and run it in if nobody's open.

Easy to make a call like that on Monday morning tho.
[ Edited by oldninerdude on Dec 12, 2011 at 11:09 AM ]
Did we even call any run plays when we were in the red zone? I remember Gore breaking it up the middle for a 9 yard TD against Philly... why all of a sudden are we a pass first team?
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
What did Crabs say after the game ?

"I have no words, really," Crabtree said. "I saw a lot of opportunities. I really don't want to say anything negative. You know what I'm saying? But it's hard.

"When you're trying to be the man, and you're trying to do what you're supposed to do, trying to grind it out, trying to be the receiver, and you don't get the ball. It's hard. It's disappointing. I don't know, man. I don't need to be talking right now."

This what Crabtree is talking about
Crabtree caught seven passes for 63 yards, but he was a spectator in the red zone. The 49ers ran 11 plays inside the Cardinals' 20-yard line. Crabtree was on the sideline for four of those plays, and he was not the intended target on any of the other seven plays.




Braylon
"Talk to them," Edwards said of the other receivers. "They played. I didn't."


Basically he's saying he was open but didnt get the ball.


LOL

Susweels wife: I like the black shirt a little better than the blue shirt.

Susweel: So you're saying I look hideous in blue and that I should only ever wear black shirts.
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
LOL

Susweels wife: I like the black shirt a little better than the blue shirt.

Susweel: So you're saying I look hideous in blue and that I should only ever wear black shirts.

nice
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:

why you laugh ?

Im not even gonna start with you


Basically he was saying he was hardly used in redzone offense and was used to sit and watch Ginn and Braylon get passes thrown to them instead.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
You make some great points.

Especially agree that the rest of the league, and the NFL West especially, is catching up with what the team is doing. So maybe its time to start changing some things up? Start sending some exotic blitzes on D, and throwing some screen passes on O, as you suggest, for example.

D line does not seem to be getting as much push as they did early in the year. J Smith and RayMac wearing down?

Should be interesting to see how the team responds against Pittsburgh.

Thanks OND. I love the arguments that we're saving our offense and exotic schemes for the playoffs. If so, would guys such as Crabtree and VD be pissed off on the sideline...you can now see the frustration from our playmakers d/t an OL and QB getting overwhelmed by good game-planning against us. Harbaugh/Roman/Fangio better do something before this snowballs. Now we are going to face a team that may blitz MORE than 60% of the time b/c of the success other teams have had against us...and they are the best at it! And like the Ravens, they will play UP to the prime time spotlight.

Its not time to panic by any means but I'm certainly concerned about our inability to game plan properly (IMHO), adjust and grow/tune-up for the playoffs like we've seen with great Niner teams in the past.
Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Did we even call any run plays when we were in the red zone? I remember Gore breaking it up the middle for a 9 yard TD against Philly... why all of a sudden are we a pass first team?


Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Yes, I'd rather see a play action, sprint right, throw to Vernon or Crabs. The LBs would have to respect Gore off tackle, and that should leave somebody open in the endzone, shouldn't it? And that plays to Alex's strength, his ability to sprint out, and run it in if nobody's open.

Easy to make a call like that on Monday morning tho.

Least they can do in the redzone is keep defenses honest by making them defend Frank Gore, one of the best backs in the league. But if Alex has to try and read defenses and make gun slinger type throws, 49ers will be unsuccessful.


In run formations, you can still deploy a package that includes Vernon Davis, D. Walker, Crabtree, and Bruce Miller and Gore. All those guys can run routes if Alex decides to kill the run play, or let it roll and have them all run routes.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
You make some great points.

Especially agree that the rest of the league, and the NFL West especially, is catching up with what the team is doing. So maybe its time to start changing some things up? Start sending some exotic blitzes on D, and throwing some screen passes on O, as you suggest, for example.

D line does not seem to be getting as much push as they did early in the year. J Smith and RayMac wearing down?

Should be interesting to see how the team responds against Pittsburgh.

Thanks OND. I love the arguments that we're saving our offense and exotic schemes for the playoffs. If so, would guys such as Crabtree and VD be pissed off on the sideline...you can now see the frustration from our playmakers d/t an OL and QB getting overwhelmed by good game-planning against us. Harbaugh/Roman/Fangio better do something before this snowballs. Now we are going to face a team that may blitz MORE than 60% of the time b/c of the success other teams have had against us...and they are the best at it! And like the Ravens, they will play UP to the prime time spotlight.

Its not time to panic by any means but I'm certainly concerned about our inability to game plan properly (IMHO), adjust and grow/tune-up for the playoffs like we've seen with great Niner teams in the past.
Pittsburgh game is a perfect opportunity to address some important issues--i.e. blitz protection and playcalling.

Monday night game, at home--lots of motivation. Should be a good one.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Did we even call any run plays when we were in the red zone? I remember Gore breaking it up the middle for a 9 yard TD against Philly... why all of a sudden are we a pass first team?


Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Yes, I'd rather see a play action, sprint right, throw to Vernon or Crabs. The LBs would have to respect Gore off tackle, and that should leave somebody open in the endzone, shouldn't it? And that plays to Alex's strength, his ability to sprint out, and run it in if nobody's open.

Easy to make a call like that on Monday morning tho.

Least they can do in the redzone is keep defenses honest by making them defend Frank Gore, one of the best backs in the league. But if Alex has to try and read defenses and make gun slinger type throws, 49ers will be unsuccessful.


In run formations, you can still deploy a package that includes Vernon Davis, D. Walker, Crabtree, and Bruce Miller and Gore. All those guys can run routes if Alex decides to kill the run play, or let it roll and have them all run routes.
Put in that heavy package, with Soap in the backfield with Gore, unbalanced OL, then run play action, Alex rolls right and throws it to Staley in the endzone!

Monday morning QBing. Gotta love it.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Put in that heavy package, with Soap in the backfield with Gore, unbalanced OL, then run play action, Alex rolls right and throws it to Staley in the endzone!

Monday morning QBing. Gotta love it.

For sure...

Although hind-sight is 20/20, this has become a common and well documented theme by now. We seemed to have done a much better job out-coaching and scheming wins; not any more.

Do you remember when we had TE's like Brent Jones who'd block a guy (down low) and pop up and run wide open into the end zone for an easy TD? Or the roll out to the right where the TE comes off the LOS, fakes inside and goes outside in sync with the QB for the give-me ? It seems, even in 2011, that every team still does this and scores almost every time. I could never figure out why this play is so poorly defended every time.
Excellent post, as usual - please keep them coming.

I feel the Steelers game will be a huge test for our coaching staff. The Cards D is a soild unit and played well. It was apparent that the OLIne could not handle the types of blitz packages thrown at them. The Steelers will be bringing more of the same and new types of blitzes. The challenge will be to counter the blitzes. It is a pass or fail test. If we pass, the offense moves to another level and opponents will then have to figure out a counter for that. I think your idea of going back to the Bill Walsh Playbook is the answer - I hope the coaching staff uses it.

The DLine IS wearing down! And that is another coaching decision. Next FA period and draft we'll need to address that as well as the Oline.

Alex Boone played well - I really like to see more of him in our remaining games. He'll need more experience, I feel Staley will once again be an injury victim.

Edwards is not cutting it and the more we use Williams the better we'll play. In addition, the experience will help him and help the coaches acess future needs like a BIG, FAST WR.

Grant was an excellent pick up and a keeper. I wonder if he could also play OLB? Aldon needs to be on the field full time.

Alex Smith, has improved BUT needs to play better. He played well for the most part until the red zone. The blitzes and dropped passes really impacted his performance.

One last point, Crabtree's blocking was dynamite. JH needs to review the Walsh playbook and see how John Taylor was used to make better use of Crab's talents.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Put in that heavy package, with Soap in the backfield with Gore, unbalanced OL, then run play action, Alex rolls right and throws it to Staley in the endzone!

Monday morning QBing. Gotta love it.

For sure...

Although hind-sight is 20/20, this has become a common and well documented theme by now. We seemed to have done a much better job out-coaching and scheming wins; not any more.

Do you remember when we had TE's like Brent Jones who'd block a guy (down low) and pop up and run wide open into the end zone for an easy TD? Or the roll out to the right where the TE comes off the LOS, fakes inside and goes outside in sync with the QB for the give-me ? It seems, even in 2011, that every team still does this and scores almost every time. I could never figure out why this play is so poorly defended every time.
Well, not this last game anyway.

Way too soon to give up on Harbaugh, Roman or this team--although it seems pretty clear that they've got more to learn about the Pittsburgh style defense and how to handle it.

This next game is going to be really important in many ways. IMHO.