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Week 14: Thoughts after re-watching the game....

  • Marvin49
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.
Originally posted by valrod33:

why you laugh ?
I'm okay with Goldson going for the pick. He's trying to make a play.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:

why you laugh ?

Im not even gonna start with you
  • Marvin49
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Skelton got away far too many times. Aldon did well but not THAT well. Our def line is obviously not a problem and give Skelton credit he moved well in the pocket and didn't have to worry about blitzing on passing downs. We sent some run blitzes as usual but we rushed four or less on most all passing downs. Its just frustrating to watch because Arizona sent the house on every down and beating us up with it.

Aldon only oplayed about half the snaps.....so.......

When he was in there, he constantly got pressure.
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by valrod33:

why you laugh ?

Im not even gonna start with you

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Thanks for another great analysis.

I totally agree with your assessment of the red zone problems--its playcalling. Seems like they avoided inside running, perhaps with the thought that they're gonna need an inside run play coming up--at a key moment in the playoffs. I'd rather see them running off tackle now--even if they fail--to set up future opponents. I think they just got too "cute" on offense in the red zone and it cost them. Score a TD instead of a FG on either of those opportunities inside the 10 and they win. Oh well.

Grant played well, but I can't wait to see Willis back in there.

Aldon Smith played very well, and let a couple sacks get away from him. Still a FF and a sack--not a bad day for the rookie.

I think some of those sacks have to be put on Alex Smith. Where was the hot read? Why didn't he see the blitz and take advantage? Arizona's D played great, but we never took advantage of their over aggressiveness.

There should be a penalty for a red flag that's just thrown for strategic purposes and not upheld. That was total BS.

I agree on all but Smith.

The 49ers do not have "hot reads". Thats one of the changes in the Harbaugh/Roman offense that makes things easier for the QB and eliminates mistakes (like a WR and QB being on different pages on a hot read and getting an INT as a result). Instead they always have an "outlet receiver", but if that gets covered....

This was the problem in a nutshell as I saw it...

49ers run Max protect with 7 O-Linemen. That only puts three receivers out there to pass to. When the Cards blitzed two or three guys up the middle, the extra tackles don't help you because its the interior of the line that can't account for everyone. If the outlet receiver is covered, there is nowhere to throw the ball.

The way the sheme is designed helps cut down on turnovers, but will also at times leave the QB nowhere to throw the ball.

Dead on! Ppl keep blaming Alex but if you watch the WR's it's always 2 or three guys on only 2 WR's. What's he supposed to do but take a sack, run for his life and try to ad-lib. Guys are not getting open very much at all...
Roman's playcalling.
I want to rig my Madden to connect to the Niners playcalling system.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?
1. Got to go with Kyle. It sucks for Edwards but he isn't playing good and we need to find out how high the ceiling is with Williams.
2. I think it's mostly playcalling. These plays are obviously working in practice or else they wouldn't use them. Just not executing when it comes to game day. I think they need to spread it out down there. I think that's what they did against Detroit with the game on the line and Alex probably feels more comfortable with have quick options.
5. Oline seems to be one of the best some weeks and then one of the worst in others. Don't get what it is all about. Yeah, we will be drafting toward the end of the first round and I can see us beefing up the offensive line because you have to win in the trenches and Harbaugh knows this.
6. Alex struggled...but he still didn't have the costly turnover and it still proves that if we don't turn the ball over we will have a chance in most games. It was the same way against the Ravens. But, Alex does disappoint with some of his throws. It's like he's accurate with guys that are wide open, but when we need him to thread the needle or put the ball in the right area for a fade, it looks way off to me.
7. This game completely reminded me of the Dallas game for the secondary. They just wiffed and gave up really big plays. It happens...
10. Sky isn't falling but it is a reminder of how bad losing sucks. Our other 2 loses were to better teams and weird circumstances. This was a division loss to a team that is ok at best and we should have put them away. If the Niners keep regressing, it will prove to everyone that they thought we were just a fluke, when we really we have played solid ball for the majority of the year. We need Willis to get healthy, th O line to figure it out and to score some td's in the redzone.
  • Marvin49
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?

Because thats the play that's called. Just because its not the play thats called doesn't mean Alex can't do it.

Its like the TE seam route. That was the bread and butter play for the O the last several years. How many times have we seen it THIS year?
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?

Because thats the play that's called. Just because its not the play thats called doesn't mean Alex can't do it.

Its like the TE seam route. That was the bread and butter play for the O the last several years. How many times have we seen it THIS year?

I understand they have to run the play called. But I'm saying why can't they be a little more diverse with the redzone playcalling? From what I'm seeing is, they go into these "spread" formations with Alex in the gun, but there are really only two pass plays that come out of it, either a convenient slant, or fade to Braylon.

In comparison to other teams, for example the Patriots, in the red zone, they run spread, but Brady makes all kinds of throws, from quick outs to Welker, tight squeezes to Hernandez sitting in the middle, or Gronkowski running in the back of the end zone.

In my opinion, someone is scared to get risky, either Greg Roman, or Alex Smith.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Thanks for another great analysis.

I totally agree with your assessment of the red zone problems--its playcalling. Seems like they avoided inside running, perhaps with the thought that they're gonna need an inside run play coming up--at a key moment in the playoffs. I'd rather see them running off tackle now--even if they fail--to set up future opponents. I think they just got too "cute" on offense in the red zone and it cost them. Score a TD instead of a FG on either of those opportunities inside the 10 and they win. Oh well.

Grant played well, but I can't wait to see Willis back in there.

Aldon Smith played very well, and let a couple sacks get away from him. Still a FF and a sack--not a bad day for the rookie.

I think some of those sacks have to be put on Alex Smith. Where was the hot read? Why didn't he see the blitz and take advantage? Arizona's D played great, but we never took advantage of their over aggressiveness.

There should be a penalty for a red flag that's just thrown for strategic purposes and not upheld. That was total BS.

I agree on all but Smith.

The 49ers do not have "hot reads". Thats one of the changes in the Harbaugh/Roman offense that makes things easier for the QB and eliminates mistakes (like a WR and QB being on different pages on a hot read and getting an INT as a result). Instead they always have an "outlet receiver", but if that gets covered....

This was the problem in a nutshell as I saw it...

49ers run Max protect with 7 O-Linemen. That only puts three receivers out there to pass to. When the Cards blitzed two or three guys up the middle, the extra tackles don't help you because its the interior of the line that can't account for everyone. If the outlet receiver is covered, there is nowhere to throw the ball.

The way the sheme is designed helps cut down on turnovers, but will also at times leave the QB nowhere to throw the ball.
Good points, and thanks for the correction: "outlet receiver" rather than "hot read."

BTW, I agree with your "sprint right" call. Move Alex out of the pocket, then look for Crabs or VD in the endzone. It's worked before.
  • Marvin49
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I think I know the real reason for red-zone struggles. It's because in the redzone, the windows are smaller and Alex can't make the fast accurate bullet throws to fit it in like the upper echelon QBs.

That's my opinion.

Disagree.

I don't think thats what being called. Every pass play is always something on the edge. He never drops back with a receiver running a slant or anything. It worked just fine in Detroit, but they aren't doing that. I think teams are loading up between the hashes and thats why the Niners are attacking the edges.

But why do I see other QBs still able to use the back of the endzone to find other targets like TEs, or WRs running quick out routes to the pylon, why does it always have to be either a slant or a fade route, perhaps they're more safer, and more convenient throws for Alex?

Because thats the play that's called. Just because its not the play thats called doesn't mean Alex can't do it.

Its like the TE seam route. That was the bread and butter play for the O the last several years. How many times have we seen it THIS year?

I understand they have to run the play called. But I'm saying why can't they be a little more diverse with the redzone playcalling? From what I'm seeing is, they go into these "spread" formations with Alex in the gun, but there are really only two pass plays that come out of it, either a convenient slant, or fade to Braylon.

In comparison to other teams, for example the Patriots, in the red zone, they run spread, but Brady makes all kinds of throws, from quick outs to Welker, tight squeezes to Hernandez sitting in the middle, or Gronkowski running in the back of the end zone.

In my opinion, someone is scared to get risky, either Greg Roman, or Alex Smith.

That I agree with. That was my point actually...the issue is playcalling.
Originally posted by NCommand:
You hit on many points I saw too. I'd like to state some additional concerns here:

1. Dropped passes; we must be close to 7% now after this game and it's just mind-boggling. Receivers flat out dropping perfect throws, losing balls, never turning around, on crucial 3rd and 4th downs, etc. drop after drop after drop. This is more than a perpetual problem by now and certainly needs to be addressed. It finally caught up to us. It's become a culture.
2. Another concern is the inability to use screen passes against an aggressive defense esp. when you have a Sproles-like player in Hunter and an OL that is best in space and at the second level. We used it one time and it worked very well and then I never saw it again.
3. When was the last time WE brought a CB or S blitz, or overloaded blitzes like what teams are doing against us? I am seeing Brooks/Smith being moved back and forth, rushing from the WILL/SAM spots but that's about as creative as we get.
4. Players such as Crabs/VD are starting to get fed up. This is a WCO right? The redzone should be the easiest for us b/c the WCO "is" a full time redzone offense...short passing game with utilizing TE's, RB's, WR slats, crossing routes, draws, QB rollouts, screens, etc. Since November 1st, we are only 3 of 13 in TD's in the redzone. Inexcusable...on both accounts.
5. Calls - has there been one game this year where we weren't screwed on a HUGE call by the refs? Its like that rookie OT who starts getting flaged for false starts and then is called every single game for them. It's become a culture.
6. Will Fangio ever learn not to play his defenders 10 yards off on 3rd and 5 or 20 yards off on 3rd and 10+, etc. Ever?
7. OL...we need help. If you just watch the LOS, this line is CONSTANTLY being shoved backwards, sometimes up to ten yards. It means Gore and Hunter have to run through 2 guys often just to get back to the original LOS and it generally means Alex is running for his life, getting crushed/hit, scrambling, throwing off timing, etc.
8. Penalties and getting plays in - what is your deal Harbaugh? We call a TO...? We then get a penalty? Having to use all these time outs? What's our deal?
9. It seems like teams are evolving on defense and offense and as a team now and we are regressing; the commentator noted yesterday that Harbaugh never deviates from his game-plan which is fine when its working, Teams are game-planning very well against us and adjusting very well esp. at halftime. We are not and we are not deviating from the original plan and not making the proper adjustments at halftime.
10. Tired defense - we need a rotation here more on the DL; the front 7 is still providing pressure but they are overworked and tired
You make some great points.

Especially agree that the rest of the league, and the NFL West especially, is catching up with what the team is doing. So maybe its time to start changing some things up? Start sending some exotic blitzes on D, and throwing some screen passes on O, as you suggest, for example.

D line does not seem to be getting as much push as they did early in the year. J Smith and RayMac wearing down?

Should be interesting to see how the team responds against Pittsburgh.