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Week 14: Thoughts after re-watching the game....

Originally posted by nazniner:
So if our offense has no hot reads, does this mean that Smith can't change any routes at the line of scrimmage based on what he sees from the defense? My understanding is that he has two plays when he comes up to the line; a run and a pass. If that is true, that doesn't seem like a good strategy to beat defenses that blitz up the middle.

It's not a run or a pass, it's just two plays which could be any combination of both.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by contrarios:
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?

Same here...guys running up to the LOS like they are going to blitz, back off at snap or full out blitz, standing up, moving around to create confusion. I personally think we have more talent on defense then them and could be even more effective in a defense like this (e.g. Pittsburgh/Cards).

Not sure why you guys are envious, we have the number one defense in he NFL.....
Marvin if i somehow became NFL networks lead producer Id fire that dumbass jamie dukes and hire you in a heartbeat!!! awesome analysis as always
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by contrarios:
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?

Same here...guys running up to the LOS like they are going to blitz, back off at snap or full out blitz, standing up, moving around to create confusion. I personally think we have more talent on defense then them and could be even more effective in a defense like this (e.g. Pittsburgh/Cards).

Not sure why you guys are envious, we have the number one defense in he NFL.....

You ever hear players and coaches say "You're only as good as your last game." ?
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Agree on most points. The problem tho isn't so much the line in my opinion. I'm not saying they are playing well, I'm just saying teams are stacking the box and blitzing up the middle and the 49ers haven't yet found a way to make them pay for doing it. The Line is getting pushed back because they are CONTANTLY outnumbered.

Disagree on this. They were stacking the box but backpedaling after the snap letting four or five guys rush. That's why Smith couldn't find a quick outlet. They evidently learned from Baltimore.

I agree with your view of the game other than this and am just sad regarding Edwards' play. So much potential wasted...hope it is just an injury and not attitude.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by contrarios:
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?

Same here...guys running up to the LOS like they are going to blitz, back off at snap or full out blitz, standing up, moving around to create confusion. I personally think we have more talent on defense then them and could be even more effective in a defense like this (e.g. Pittsburgh/Cards).

Not sure why you guys are envious, we have the number one defense in he NFL.....

You ever hear players and coaches say "You're only as good as your last game." ?

True...more b/c they are evolving into a very good defense and have become exotic and aggressive and are employing the same philosophy WE thought we'd be by now on top of an already effective base (vanilla). defense.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by contrarios:
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?

Same here...guys running up to the LOS like they are going to blitz, back off at snap or full out blitz, standing up, moving around to create confusion. I personally think we have more talent on defense then them and could be even more effective in a defense like this (e.g. Pittsburgh/Cards).

Not sure why you guys are envious, we have the number one defense in he NFL.....

You ever hear players and coaches say "You're only as good as your last game." ?

True...more b/c they are evolving into a very good defense and have become exotic and aggressive and are employing the same philosophy WE thought we'd be by now on top of an already effective base (vanilla). defense.

Correct me if I'm wrong Ncommand (seriously), but are we basically playing man straight up and getting pressure with 4? Although it doesn't look as sexy, it may be harder to defend because we aren't leaving areas open by blitzing an extra man.

Honestly, we lead the league in least points allowed, we haven't allowed a rushing TD and we have more turnovers than any other defense (or is hat turnover margin a 27/28). Our run D is keeping the oppossing team to under 75 rushing yards per game. And with the exception of last week, we dont give up big plays. I think we have the toughest redzone D in the league.
[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Dec 13, 2011 at 7:24 PM ]
Originally posted by frank1rizzo:
During a critical drive:

1-10: Ran the ball up the middle for 5 yards.
2-5: Long pass play incomplete.
3-5: Pass play incomplete.
4-5 Punt.

Arrrggg. I was screaming for them to run it again on 2-5. Just run it down their throats in that position. You'll probably get a few more yards and have a 3-2 3-1 and run it again! When you get the first down... then maybe you can pass because they are expecting another running play. Run sets up the pass, that's how we win. It seems like they are forcing the issue with throwing the ball.

I like this a lot.

I think we should over do it at times at the risk of it being an Army/Navy game. 3 runs that fail to make a first down are better than 3 passes that fail to do the same thing. As for a run play on 2nd & 5, either a good power running play or a draw. You want to make sure you get at least 2-3 yards and not get stuffed for no gain.

Time to pound the f***** ball down teams throats.

An interesting aside....if a team shows a stacked box or a run blitz, then audible for a fake handoff and quick throw. There's gotta be ways to shake things up to the point that defenses have to be honest.

Once Alex has protection then the niners are strong on offense.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by contrarios:
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?

Same here...guys running up to the LOS like they are going to blitz, back off at snap or full out blitz, standing up, moving around to create confusion. I personally think we have more talent on defense then them and could be even more effective in a defense like this (e.g. Pittsburgh/Cards).

Not sure why you guys are envious, we have the number one defense in he NFL.....

And how did that #1 defense help us out against the Cards? They racked up 21 points with their back up QB!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by contrarios:
The Cards are running the defense that I envisioned we would be running - pressure coming from all over the place and disrupting offenses. What happened?

Same here...guys running up to the LOS like they are going to blitz, back off at snap or full out blitz, standing up, moving around to create confusion. I personally think we have more talent on defense then them and could be even more effective in a defense like this (e.g. Pittsburgh/Cards).

Not sure why you guys are envious, we have the number one defense in he NFL.....

You ever hear players and coaches say "You're only as good as your last game." ?

True...more b/c they are evolving into a very good defense and have become exotic and aggressive and are employing the same philosophy WE thought we'd be by now on top of an already effective base (vanilla). defense.

It's confusing how coming into the season, the reviews on Fangio was that "he's like Dom Capers and brings exotic blitzes that come from all directions" ... the season's almost over and we still haven't seen nothing. I mean it's worked for most of the season, but it seems like its failed on critical moments lately, for instance the Ravens TD drive where Flacco surgically drove it down for a TD, Eli Manning put together some nice drives, and now the Cardinals attacked them with Fitzgerald.

Not sure if they're ready to face Brees or Rodgers, or hell even Tony Romo in the playoffs.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Correct me if I'm wrong Ncommand (seriously), but are we basically playing man straight up and getting pressure with 4? Although it doesn't look as sexy, it may be harder to defend because we aren't leaving areas open by blitzing an extra man.

Honestly, we lead the league in least points allowed, we haven't allowed a rushing TD and we have more turnovers than any other defense (or is hat turnover margin a 27/28). Our run D is keeping the oppossing team to under 75 rushing yards per game. And with the exception of last week, we dont give up big plays. I think we have the toughest redzone D in the league.

Hey Oak...I don't think anyone would argue the success we have had thus far with running a straight up, base 3-4 defense. And to be fair, like a WCO, it takes a good 2-3 years to fully grasp it and that's with the same players growing together.

But I think where I take objection is that we are into week 15 now and we're playing the same way and teams are figuring it out (like defenses have figured out how to beat our offense). We are seeing teams such as the Cards evolving esp. over the past five games into the defense we thought we'd have installed by now.

We are not evolving and we have the four best combo LBers in the game...best front 7. You literally have Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks who can play anywhere on the field; at ILB, OLB, on the DL (inside or outside). You have two big hitters in Goldson and Whitner, amazing quickness and power with Justin Smith and Ray McDonald. You have the two best middle LBers in the game in Bowman and Willis and even Grant isn't a slouch (he already has 1 sack and what, 18 tackles?). There are ENDLESS blitz packages you can use with these guys. Our two CB's play best when they play tight and physical and down hill.

When you give a backup QB all day to throw, don't cover the #1 threat (the only threat) and he has almost 300 yards against your defense off the bench (almost all in the 2nd half), that's on your DC for letting him get comfortable. On the flip side, the Cards NEVER let Alex get comfortable, blitzing over 60% of the time and disguising blitzes close to 100% of the time. They had constant movement pre-snap, guys rushing up, backing off, overloading, causing false starts, forcing us to go to max-protections and giving us essentially ONE OPTION in the RZ. This was the difference in the game...they dictated our offense and forced us to beat them. On the flip side, we sat back and allowed long completions to Fitgerald/Ducet that they turned into long TD's. We played passive hoping they'd make a mistake (and they did with three TO's) yet b/c they were so aggressive on defense, those TO's didn't matter in the end b/c we couldn't score in the RZ. We are also not making any adjustments at halftime like we're seeing with other teams (against us).

At this stage of the season, we should be evolving into a better pressure defense (dictating) and building upon a very solid base defense like what we're seeing in AZ with a Pittsburgh-style defense who is thriving now on scheme alone. Instead, our defense has become vanilla and predictable and our three DL and Brooks are exhausted! That is leaving, even backup QB's who come in off the bench, way too much time to scan through multiple progressions, get comfortable, confident and bold. It also is giving them the W in a critical game!

I understand starting with a base defense, relying on extra DB's to force QB's to throw and make mistakes (TO's) b/c our front 7 is so strong against the run but NOW it's time to start getting more exotic and build upon it b/c come playoff time, sitting back and playing passive will ensure our players are sitting on their couches after the first playoff game.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Hey Oak...I don't think anyone would argue the success we have had thus far with running a straight up, base 3-4 defense. And to be fair, like a WCO, it takes a good 2-3 years to fully grasp it and that's with the same players growing together.

But I think where I take objection is that we are into week 15 now and we're playing the same way and teams are figuring it out (like defenses have figured out how to beat our offense). We are seeing teams such as the Cards evolving esp. over the past five games into the defense we thought we'd have installed by now.

We are not evolving and we have the four best combo LBers in the game...best front 7. You literally have Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks who can play anywhere on the field; at ILB, OLB, on the DL (inside or outside). You have two big hitters in Goldson and Whitner, amazing quickness and power with Justin Smith and Ray McDonald. You have the two best middle LBers in the game in Bowman and Willis and even Grant isn't a slouch (he already has 1 sack and what, 18 tackles?). There are ENDLESS blitz packages you can use with these guys. Our two CB's play best when they play tight and physical and down hill.

When you give a backup QB all day to throw, don't cover the #1 threat (the only threat) and he has almost 300 yards against your defense off the bench (almost all in the 2nd half), that's on your DC for letting him get comfortable. On the flip side, the Cards NEVER let Alex get comfortable, blitzing over 60% of the time and disguising blitzes close to 100% of the time. They had constant movement pre-snap, guys rushing up, backing off, overloading, causing false starts, forcing us to go to max-protections and giving us essentially ONE OPTION in the RZ. This was the difference in the game...they dictated our offense and forced us to beat them. On the flip side, we sat back and allowed long completions to Fitgerald/Ducet that they turned into long TD's. We played passive hoping they'd make a mistake (and they did with three TO's) yet b/c they were so aggressive on defense, those TO's didn't matter in the end b/c we couldn't score in the RZ. We are also not making any adjustments at halftime like we're seeing with other teams (against us).

At this stage of the season, we should be evolving into a better pressure defense (dictating) and building upon a very solid base defense like what we're seeing in AZ with a Pittsburgh-style defense who is thriving now on scheme alone. Instead, our defense has become vanilla and predictable and our three DL and Brooks are exhausted! That is leaving, even backup QB's who come in off the bench, way too much time to scan through multiple progressions, get comfortable, confident and bold. It also is giving them the W in a critical game!

I understand starting with a base defense, relying on extra DB's to force QB's to throw and make mistakes (TO's) b/c our front 7 is so strong against the run but NOW it's time to start getting more exotic and build upon it b/c come playoff time, sitting back and playing passive will ensure our players are sitting on their couches after the first playoff game.

I agree. We are going to have to become more forceful and thoughtful on D. FV is going to have to better use the superior talent he has at his disposal. Plus, the offensive playcalling HAS to get better. Is it me or dose it seem that aspects of the playbook is being held back. I recall seeing the hurryup package once this season, with very good results. My wife literally had to leave the house until the game was over because I just wouldn't stop yelling "where the f_ck is the hurryup?" every time we were on offence. I know if a fan at home could see this I'm sure a coaching staff getting paid millions could. I don't get it.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Hey Oak...I don't think anyone would argue the success we have had thus far with running a straight up, base 3-4 defense. And to be fair, like a WCO, it takes a good 2-3 years to fully grasp it and that's with the same players growing together.

But I think where I take objection is that we are into week 15 now and we're playing the same way and teams are figuring it out (like defenses have figured out how to beat our offense). We are seeing teams such as the Cards evolving esp. over the past five games into the defense we thought we'd have installed by now.

We are not evolving and we have the four best combo LBers in the game...best front 7. You literally have Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks who can play anywhere on the field; at ILB, OLB, on the DL (inside or outside). You have two big hitters in Goldson and Whitner, amazing quickness and power with Justin Smith and Ray McDonald. You have the two best middle LBers in the game in Bowman and Willis and even Grant isn't a slouch (he already has 1 sack and what, 18 tackles?). There are ENDLESS blitz packages you can use with these guys. Our two CB's play best when they play tight and physical and down hill.

When you give a backup QB all day to throw, don't cover the #1 threat (the only threat) and he has almost 300 yards against your defense off the bench (almost all in the 2nd half), that's on your DC for letting him get comfortable. On the flip side, the Cards NEVER let Alex get comfortable, blitzing over 60% of the time and disguising blitzes close to 100% of the time. They had constant movement pre-snap, guys rushing up, backing off, overloading, causing false starts, forcing us to go to max-protections and giving us essentially ONE OPTION in the RZ. This was the difference in the game...they dictated our offense and forced us to beat them. On the flip side, we sat back and allowed long completions to Fitgerald/Ducet that they turned into long TD's. We played passive hoping they'd make a mistake (and they did with three TO's) yet b/c they were so aggressive on defense, those TO's didn't matter in the end b/c we couldn't score in the RZ. We are also not making any adjustments at halftime like we're seeing with other teams (against us).

At this stage of the season, we should be evolving into a better pressure defense (dictating) and building upon a very solid base defense like what we're seeing in AZ with a Pittsburgh-style defense who is thriving now on scheme alone. Instead, our defense has become vanilla and predictable and our three DL and Brooks are exhausted! That is leaving, even backup QB's who come in off the bench, way too much time to scan through multiple progressions, get comfortable, confident and bold. It also is giving them the W in a critical game!

I understand starting with a base defense, relying on extra DB's to force QB's to throw and make mistakes (TO's) b/c our front 7 is so strong against the run but NOW it's time to start getting more exotic and build upon it b/c come playoff time, sitting back and playing passive will ensure our players are sitting on their couches after the first playoff game.

I agree. We are going to have to become more forceful and thoughtful on D. FV is going to have to better use the superior talent he has at his disposal. Plus, the offensive playcalling HAS to get better. Is it me or dose it seem that aspects of the playbook is being held back. I recall seeing the hurryup package once this season, with very good results. My wife literally had to leave the house until the game was over because I just wouldn't stop yelling "where the f_ck is the hurryup?" every time we were on offence. I know if a fan at home could see this I'm sure a coaching staff getting paid millions could. I don't get it.

Same here...my g/f had to physically hide from me b/c she was scared. I could see us getting beat from the 3rd quarter on. You could see their adjustments, how they were attacking, where they were attacking and us doing absolutely nothing to combat it. No screens, no real WCO plays, vanilla on defense, not doubling Fitzgerald, playing off WR's on 3rd downs for easy completions, etc. You could see and feel it coming a mile a way.

But as to the bolded...not really. How many times have fans pointed out "obvious" thing here, were right and the coaches never saw it? It happens all the time. Part of that is b/c we're removed from the team and have the opportunity to watch them objectively. They are in the trenches. It's like being IN a relationship vs. being on the outside looking, in. It's much easier to see the dysfunction from the outside, looking in.
Originally posted by nazniner:
So if our offense has no hot reads, does this mean that Smith can't change any routes at the line of scrimmage based on what he sees from the defense? My understanding is that he has two plays when he comes up to the line; a run and a pass. If that is true, that doesn't seem like a good strategy to beat defenses that blitz up the middle.

Smith does have 2 options at the line, but that doesn't mean that one of those options can account for all manner of blitz. He did see the blitz coming a number of times on Sunday and checked to an outside run or a quick pass outside.

The problem is that the pursuit got to the outside runs and 6'8" Calais Campbell got his mitts on the ball a few times when passed outside.

I'm not saying Arizona is a great team, but they do have a fiarly unique matchup defensively. Their LBs are FAST and can pursue. They have a very stout D-Line.

The DBs aren't great, but Adrian Wilson is IMO the most under-rated Safety in the NFL. Wilson was playing like a mad man.

Bottom line, the Cards played like this was the Super Bowl and the Niners STILL should have won. They dominated the first half and then just couldn't get it together in the second. You are gonna have games like this, particularly when the other team isn't as bad as most believe.
Originally posted by bayniner21:
Marvin if i somehow became NFL networks lead producer Id fire that dumbass jamie dukes and hire you in a heartbeat!!! awesome analysis as always

LOL.....Thanks, but that's a low bar to clear.