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3-17 on Third Downs

I remember when McCarthy was here. He was pounced on for making conservative calls. He's not conservative with GB. Coaches only put in plays and calling them only if he thinks his offense is capable of executing them. In the end the execution result with the players. Don't think it's the playing calling, it's the execution.
Originally posted by LundyLove:
We have been terrible at third downs all year.......

Good teams are good at third down

We are now 30th in the league in third down conversions with 30 percent

The offense has big problems and it starts at the QB position.Why do you think that teams cannot blitz all day against GB or NE? Because those QBs make you pay when you bring the heat. Alex Smith is unable to get the ball out quickly to his hot read.

Game after game, we have heard network commentators along with Eric Davis on the 49er broadcast point out that 49er receivers are not looking back for the early throw, not recognizing blitzes and adjust routes to take advantage of space emptied by the blitz, etc.

The most important asset against blitzes is the TE. The TE is closest to the QB and should be able to quickly get into position to take a pass in open space. We see guys like Jason Whitten who has made a career of doing just that. When Whitten goes down, so does Romo. Gates and Gonzalez do the same thing for their QBs/teams. All three not only have size, but also agility to adjust to passes thrown under pressure on the QB that are often not right on target.

Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski are the next generation but with more speed and even greater size.

One thing all these guys have in common is the ability to read and adjust. (Graham is particularly noteworthy in that he has developed that skill in just two years.)

With the 49ers, Vernon Davis still has not learned how to do that after 5 full seasons. So while we might hope that Harbaugh the Wonder Worker could teach him how to do that in the future, the current version just doesn't read well enough to be a help in this area. Walker doesn't seem to be in the mix very often, or at least often enough to see if he could be that quick relief guy.

That leaves it up to the WRs and, as we saw on Sunday, Crabtree who is now the most experienced (though still limited) is still running route short of the line to gain. Twice Sunday he caught passes 3 yards or less SHORT of the flag.

So that is just one aspect of it. Others include penalties, no push from the OL, and inaccurate passes.

Still another aspect that we need to recognize is the fact that Harbaugh CHOOSES to play a field position game with Andy Lee and the defense. Rather than attempting to pick up the first on 3rd and long, he takes the 8 yard throw and lets Lee pin the other team deep in their own end with a punt. In that sense, the fact the ST and defense are SO strong results in an offense that does not look as strong as it might if they always felt compelled to go for the first down instead of playing "field position."
Originally posted by King49er:
I just don't understand howcome we couldn't adjust to the blitz, they came at us all day

For three weeks now the overload blitz packages have killed the 49ers. The blame has to include the failure of Goodwin to adjust the protection along with Harbaugh/Roman in changing the blocking schemes to counter the blitz.

Teams that handle overload blitzes well do so by tightening up the OL so that there is so much congestion in the middle of the line that blitzers cannot immediately get in the face of the QB. So while this does open up edge blitzers to the QB, it also results in the front of the pocket remaining intact so the QB can step up into the pocket and deliver the ball with more authority downfield.

The 49ers, in contrast, have remained in relatively wide line splits which allows room for middle blitzers to come through the gaps and force Smith to throw off his back foot or move out of the pocket, often away from the most open receiver.
  • g60nx
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 99
SO I SEE WE HAVE ANOTHER UNOFFICIAL "ALEX SMITH" THREAD.

/caps

Originally posted by g60nx:
SO I SEE WE HAVE ANOTHER UNOFFICIAL "ALEX SMITH" THREAD.

/caps


Is that what you are reading?

I just posted two separate topics. One about the importance of TEs specifically and the other about receivers in general and the HC's overall mindset and how they also effect 3rd efficiency. Did you have a comment on that?
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
We have been terrible at third downs all year.......

Good teams are good at third down

We are now 30th in the league in third down conversions with 30 percent

The offense has big problems and it starts at the QB position.Why do you think that teams cannot blitz all day against GB or NE? Because those QBs make you pay when you bring the heat. Alex Smith is unable to get the ball out quickly to his hot read.

Game after game, we have heard network commentators along with Eric Davis on the 49er broadcast point out that 49er receivers are not looking back for the early throw, not recognizing blitzes and adjust routes to take advantage of space emptied by the blitz, etc.

The most important asset against blitzes is the TE. The TE is closest to the QB and should be able to quickly get into position to take a pass in open space. We see guys like Jason Whitten who has made a career of doing just that. When Whitten goes down, so does Romo. Gates and Gonzalez do the same thing for their QBs/teams. All three not only have size, but also agility to adjust to passes thrown under pressure on the QB that are often not right on target.

Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski are the next generation but with more speed and even greater size.

One thing all these guys have in common is the ability to read and adjust. (Graham is particularly noteworthy in that he has developed that skill in just two years.)

With the 49ers, Vernon Davis still has not learned how to do that after 5 full seasons. So while we might hope that Harbaugh the Wonder Worker could teach him how to do that in the future, the current version just doesn't read well enough to be a help in this area. Walker doesn't seem to be in the mix very often, or at least often enough to see if he could be that quick relief guy.

That leaves it up to the WRs and, as we saw on Sunday, Crabtree who is now the most experienced (though still limited) is still running route short of the line to gain. Twice Sunday he caught passes 3 yards or less SHORT of the flag.

So that is just one aspect of it. Others include penalties, no push from the OL, and inaccurate passes.

Still another aspect that we need to recognize is the fact that Harbaugh CHOOSES to play a field position game with Andy Lee and the defense. Rather than attempting to pick up the first on 3rd and long, he takes the 8 yard throw and lets Lee pin the other team deep in their own end with a punt. In that sense, the fact the ST and defense are SO strong results in an offense that does not look as strong as it might if they always felt compelled to go for the first down instead of playing "field position."

This is true, however look at the passes. They are on the money and thrown where the receiver's momentum carries them past the defense to the opens spaces on the field.

It's a 4-part solution that beats a good blizt.

Play-calling
Protection
QB read/pass
Receiver play

In no particular order. At any moment one part of this equation can break down. The receiver can make a great play after the catch. The protection can over play and really protect and give a huge amount of time to passer. The play-calling can be absolutely choice in it's assessment of the opponent. However, there's a reason why QBs are paid so much, regarded so highly. They are the X factors that can out play their protection, audible out of a bad play call, redirect protection to where the feel a blitz is coming from, and throw a great pass to a mediocre receiver or highlight a receiver who may not have been featured but has the "hot" hand(s).

There are a range of QBs and their abilities. Some are just better than others. Some QBs need 3/4ths of the equation to be great in order for them to be great. Previous 49er teams were excellent at this - their players and system was so well honed that you could insert almost any back-up and they would be almost as effective as the starter (Bono, Grbac, Musgrave etc ...). However the 49ers don't yet have a supremely talented offense that's a machine. The current group simply wont' be able to win with only 1/2 or 1/4 of that equation playing well against a well-coached opponent. Unfortunately, the Ravens exposed the 49ers and the issues on the right side of the OL will continue to be a weakness until Snyder is fully healthy or we decided to start someone else other than Rachal.

Simply, we just may have to wait until next year to find a RG, CB, WR and QB.

That's a big shopping list.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
We have been terrible at third downs all year.......

Good teams are good at third down

We are now 30th in the league in third down conversions with 30 percent

The offense has big problems and it starts at the QB position.Why do you think that teams cannot blitz all day against GB or NE? Because those QBs make you pay when you bring the heat. Alex Smith is unable to get the ball out quickly to his hot read.

Game after game, we have heard network commentators along with Eric Davis on the 49er broadcast point out that 49er receivers are not looking back for the early throw, not recognizing blitzes and adjust routes to take advantage of space emptied by the blitz, etc.

The most important asset against blitzes is the TE. The TE is closest to the QB and should be able to quickly get into position to take a pass in open space. We see guys like Jason Whitten who has made a career of doing just that. When Whitten goes down, so does Romo. Gates and Gonzalez do the same thing for their QBs/teams. All three not only have size, but also agility to adjust to passes thrown under pressure on the QB that are often not right on target.

Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski are the next generation but with more speed and even greater size.

One thing all these guys have in common is the ability to read and adjust. (Graham is particularly noteworthy in that he has developed that skill in just two years.)

With the 49ers, Vernon Davis still has not learned how to do that after 5 full seasons. So while we might hope that Harbaugh the Wonder Worker could teach him how to do that in the future, the current version just doesn't read well enough to be a help in this area. Walker doesn't seem to be in the mix very often, or at least often enough to see if he could be that quick relief guy.

That leaves it up to the WRs and, as we saw on Sunday, Crabtree who is now the most experienced (though still limited) is still running route short of the line to gain. Twice Sunday he caught passes 3 yards or less SHORT of the flag.

So that is just one aspect of it. Others include penalties, no push from the OL, and inaccurate passes.

Still another aspect that we need to recognize is the fact that Harbaugh CHOOSES to play a field position game with Andy Lee and the defense. Rather than attempting to pick up the first on 3rd and long, he takes the 8 yard throw and lets Lee pin the other team deep in their own end with a punt. In that sense, the fact the ST and defense are SO strong results in an offense that does not look as strong as it might if they always felt compelled to go for the first down instead of playing "field position."

This is true, however look at the passes. They are on the money and thrown where the receiver's momentum carries them past the defense to the opens spaces on the field.
That is not always the case, and that is part of my point.

We all have learned that Vernon Davis does not have the agility to adjust to balls that are not right on target. In contrast, when I watch the other guys I mentioned above, I see they are often not only making quick hot read adjustments, but they are also making acrobatic catches on balls thrown low, behind them, over their heads, and on the turf. I won't take up space by noting individual plays I have observed but only say that EVERY QB I have seen this year has been bailed out by a TE that makes good reads and catches on balls that are far from "right on the money."

I stand by what I posted above; ONE of the big problems with the 3rd down offense is the lack of a TE who makes the correct hot read AND has the agility to make the catch on a ball that is not perfectly thrown.

Now on the subject of Michael Crabtree cutting off his route 2 yards before the flag, and Jim Harbaugh CHOOSING to play field position football rather than always attempting to get a first down on 3rd and long..........

..........
Originally posted by jreff22:
it starts at play calling bud

It also starts with players executing. Wr catching the damn ball. The line blocking and the QB not overthrowing or hanging onto the ball too long.
  • islam
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 46
All these Alex Smith haters have been hiding in the wings for games, the lack of support that this fanbase has shown to him is EMBARRASSING. I'm a die hard 49er but the TRUTH MUST BE SAID....The 49er fanbase is the most front-running and fraudulent fanbase in the entire NFL. I bet you on Monday Night 50% of the stadium will be STEELER fans!
Originally posted by islam:
All these Alex Smith haters have been hiding in the wings for games, the lack of support that this fanbase has shown to him is EMBARRASSING. I'm a die hard 49er but the TRUTH MUST BE SAID....The 49er fanbase is the most front-running and fraudulent fanbase in the entire NFL. I bet you on Monday Night 50% of the stadium will be STEELER fans!

Chillax - if you followed other teams, they are actually worst. In fact niner fans have the reputation of being laid back. You can cheer for the team and be supportive but yet don't have to be a homer. Fans pay money to go to the game buy their products and have a right when the product is not 100% to your liking to critique it.
  • islam
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 46
The Smith haters dont criticize Alex, they wake up in the morning brush their teeth then pray for Smith to die in a car crash. The venom for Alex is very disturbing..but its a reflection of what society has become....there is no loyalty.....As long as Alex Smith is with the 49ers, he gets my 150% support.
[ Edited by islam on Dec 13, 2011 at 12:37 PM ]
Originally posted by islam:
The Smith haters dont criticize Alex, they wake up in the morning brush their teeth then pray for Smith to die in a car crash. The venom for Alex is very disturbing..but its a reflection of what society has become....there is no loyalty.....As long as Alex Smith is with the 49ers, he gets my 150% support.

150% is in the stalker range, cut up pictures on the closet wall, a candle lit shrine in the corner, and a unauthorized biography under the bed. I'm a Smith supporter but really I would only give 85% support. I reserved the 15% for criticism and improvement based.
Our run-game has been crap lately and combine that with the multiple penalties/sacks on us and we are in a lot of 3rd and 10+ situations.
Originally posted by islam:
The Smith haters dont criticize Alex, they wake up in the morning brush their teeth then pray for Smith to die in a car crash. The venom for Alex is very disturbing..but its a reflection of what society has become....there is no loyalty.....As long as Alex Smith is with the 49ers, he gets my 150% support.

Melodramatic aren't we? People are just frustrated. To say people wish him to die in a car crash is way worst than fans just wanting a change. It goes more to the saying fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. So for many until Smith produces on a consistent basis, people will always doubt. Alex has produced from time to time, but not consistently. If we can blame other players then what is good for the goose should good for the gander (or or everyplayer-including smith). Having been used to Montana and Young. Even Garcia was pretty good. Even guys waiting in the wings like Grbac and Bono produced. People want a return to those QBs, and it doesn't help that Alex was not just a first round, but an overall first round. When that happens people want, hope, and expect a Peyton Elway and etc.

Alex is a nice guy-maybe that is his problem, even Montana can be a arse and so was Young, because they have this fire. You heard the term-nice guys finish last.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
We have 10 wins because of Alex.

Our D gave up 21 points. Our O-line looked like swiss cheese. We had one good run all day. Sure he takes some of the blame, but there is plenty to go around.

We have 10 wins despite Alex


Defense and special teams are the reason for the wins. We have 10 wins in spite of the poor QB play.

Yes. Our passing game is amongst the worst in the league.

Defense, ST and running game has led to wins along with some creative play calling.

Yet our QB looks the same minus the high school amateur hour mistakes he is accustomed to making.

The only thing that Alex has done has not lost us a game with stupid mistakes.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 13, 2011 at 3:51 PM ]