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Aldon Smith vs Oher

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
It's a good thing Von Miller is doing so well, because if he wasn't then Aldon Smith would win DROY and would completely overshadow what a disappointment he really is as a football player. Sure, he might have more sacks than Dwight Freeney, James Harrison and Brian Orakpo, and half a sack less than Peppers, but he's only a backup, which is totally unacceptable, he should be ashamed of himself.
lol. You're echoing Brian's posts perfectly! Hilarious.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
I agree. Excellent post.

The surprise is that anyone would try to compare the play of J.J. Watts to that of Justin Smith this year. SMH.

"They have the same stats." So what? Does Watts face a double team on EVERY play? If not, then there's no comparison.

Has Watts played at a high level for 10 or 12 years? No. SMH.

Is Watts a leader of his defense? SMH.

How many big plays, game savers, has Watts made this year? SMH.

You are absolutely correct. With RayMac and Justin Smith, there was no need for J.J. Watts. There was, however, a desperate need for a rush OLB.

Its difficult to believe that any NFL GM with any sense would trade either Justin Smith OR Aldon Smith for J.J. Watts this year.

Who is JJ Watts? Is he schizophrenic?
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 30, 2011 at 12:32 PM ]
Hey ,Command, nice post, as usual , plus liked your thots on what we learned from Balt loss and what we can do to improve/fix it. Concerning fangio, he literally gave balt the 6-10 yd space, and conceded all those passes. Still and all , it is Coach Harbaugh's team, and i suspect he has to sign off on it. If it works, fine, but in Balt game it was impossible to miss we got killed on that loose "coverage"...or non coverage if you wish. As for aldon, I know they have reasons for not playing him earlier, but the kid is getting it and will only get better sooner the more he is out there. So we have 4 guys with their hand in the dirt. So what? I think now it is a mistake not to get him as many snaps as possible, and would prefer to have him out there every snap. I know he is not a coverage guy, but when he had to , i actually think he did well. He is so fast that it seems goofy not to have him in every play.
So maddog, what are your thoughts on Jason Pierre Paul?
Originally posted by genus49:
So maddog, what are your thoughts on Jason Pierre Paul?

He's pretty good. This is probably the best comparison with Smith in measurables entering into the league, and if Smith can play at his level, the team will be in good shape down the road.

A big question is whether Smith can effectively play the 3-4 OLB position. I graded him as the second best 3-4 OLB in this draft (after Miller), but the transition has been rough in coverage, and this is limiting his playing time to almost strictly rushing the passer in a three point stance. JPP is a 4-3 DE, and this may end up being the best position for Smith in the NFL.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Who is JJ Watts? Is he schizophrenic?
Actually, he's not schizo, he's twins.

Obviously.

How else can anyone explain how he's been able to lift the entire Houston defense and elevate it all alone, without help from anyone?

Answer: there's really two of him. (Given your mancrush on the guy, you undoubtedly already knew this.)

One of him is on the sidelines, doing all that stuff BrianGo insists that Aldon Smith must learn, while the other one of him is on the field.

When he gets tired, then he comes in for himself.

Hard to know how he's going to divide that DROY award that you've already given him, tho. Prolly 50/50, or maybe 40/40 and 20% for the dog.

Cheeers.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Eskendale:
I honestly don't think any praise is truly due until Smith either sees double teams or makes a Von Miller / Clay Matthews impact. At best Aldon is an Ahmad Brooks, someone who comes off the bench and gets sacks (as he did playing for Manny Lawson); how is Ahmad doing now? Brooks certainly didn't translate his potential into a dominate season this year, although he's pretty solid. Our best pass rusher is Justin Smith, who gets most of the attention.

Makes me wonder if Aldon will pull a Suh when he starts to see double-teams and fails to dominate

WTF? This is one ignorant post newbie. Aldon can ONLY produce when he is on the field and when he is on the field, his presence is felt. That is all you can ask of a raw rookie right now and he is growing his overall game each week. I do agree we are over-praising him b/c many of those sacks have come d/t others getting double-teamed. But some have not and right now, he's providing consistent pressure and has made differences in games. To be fair and objective, I have noticed consistent pressure outside by all three OLB's all year and more often than not, the QB just steps up and throws or runs for gains up the middle and that should never happen with Sopoaga/Willis/Bowman in the middle of the field. If we get that Ngata-type in the middle of the field (a guy who can not only command double teams, stuff the run but also gets a consistent middle push as a two-gapper, those plays go for big time sacks, QB hurries, TO's and 3 and outs. Your comments on Brooks are just straight ignorant. Until Fangio employs a more exotic scheme, the front five is playing about as vanilla and straight-up as it comes and is still producing quite well given those circumstances esp. when you consider guys such as Brooks and Justin Smith are playing every single snap under constant double teams and are still leading the team in TFL, QB hits/pressures/hurries, sacks, tackles and are critical in sealing the edges in leading the #1 ranked rush defense. They are making TONS of plays despite not showing up in the stats categories.
I am not a newbie, and I have been on this forum for about six years, but my old name Stillincollege had been deleted due to inactivity with posting. No need to disqualify my statements through an inaccurate assumption :P.

It's obvious that Fangio could manufacture sacks through scheme, but I don't think that is how we need to play our defense in order to get a pass-rush at this point.

The topic was pass-rush, it wasn't overall effectiveness in our defense. I didn't mention all the forced fumbles or stoutness in run-defense that Ahmad brooks showed in coming off the bench in years past. The reason why we drafted Aldon Smith was because we wanted the anti-Manny Lawson, someone who could pass-rush. I made a direct comparison between Aldon and Ahmad because many in Ninertalk gushed over his pass-rushing ability as if he'd be the second coming of Reggie White, opining that he just needed more time on the field (whom does that remind you of?).

In the four games we had against good teams, the Lions, the Giants, the Cowboys, and Ravens, only in the Lions game could I single out Aldon as a main reason why we won. On the whole, our pass-rush failed in the other three games, where Eli beat himself, Flacco enjoyed Thanksgiving without any form of harassment, and Romo had time to carve us up. 49ers teams in the past have enjoyed sack-number inflation through playing woeful teams such as the Rams and others, but as fans we've all lamented the fact that in big games the pass-rush doesn't usually show up.

Aldon is a good player, we already agreed on the notion of giving over-excessive praise, and this is the only point that matters. In no way did I disparage our defense's performance, and my comment about Brooks had more to do with his past role as a situational pass-rusher (similar to Aldon) and how pass-rushing becomes more much difficult once you are actually a starter and start seeing double-teams here and there. Indeed, Aldon has been contributing to our overall defense, otherwise he'd be riding the bench right now. Does that make him a great role player? Absolutely. Does that make him a great player? No, because most great players play 3 downs, make sacks in the 4th quarter like a DeMarcus Ware or tips like a Justin Smith when the gas-tank is on empty; he hasn't proven any of these things yet. Aldon Smith is a block in the 49ers' victory arch right now, but not the keystone of this defense! When he warrants such status as a pass-rusher, even as a situational pass-rusher, he deserves all the praise he can get.

We are all 49ers fans here, so we hope, as homers, that Aldon will be the next best thing since sliced bread
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
He's pretty good. This is probably the best comparison with Smith in measurables entering into the league, and if Smith can play at his level, the team will be in good shape down the road.

A big question is whether Smith can effectively play the 3-4 OLB position. I graded him as the second best 3-4 OLB in this draft (after Miller), but the transition has been rough in coverage, and this is limiting his playing time to almost strictly rushing the passer in a three point stance. JPP is a 4-3 DE, and this may end up being the best position for Smith in the NFL.

I'm sure you realize why I made the comparison right? It wasn't all about the athletic ability/size ratio. Both JPP and Aldon are incredibly raw players, both having started playing football late in life and not playing a lot in college.

You can see the improvement in JPP in his 2nd season in the NFL now he's finally starting and it's very clear he's become the best player on that already really talented DL. While the transition from DE to OLB is a tougher road the point is Aldon Smith is incredibly raw and inexperienced.

I do think that some people are overestimating how good Aldon is at this point and make things up by trying to downplay some other really impressive rookie seasons to make him seem better but it's kind of crazy to dog the guy because he's not starting given his inexperience.

If anything what he's done so far given his lack of playing time, not only this year but in life, has been very impressive and is a sign of big things to come. His physical talents are evident and from all reports the kid is a hard worker and keeps getting better. To question the pick just because he's not starting is lunacy. JPP didn't start his rookie year either, many other excellent players didn't start their rookie seasons. Sure you'd love to draft a kid who instantly becomes an all pro starter but the chances of that are slim and if he helps the team as a rookie in limited play and keeps developing into a star then it's a great pick.

He's well on his way to being a great pick. You keep hyping up JJ Watt and he's an excellent player in his own right but this team is better with Aldon Smith and Ray McDonald than it would be with Watt and someone else.
And Aldon Smith has seen several double teams when he's out there.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
He's pretty good. This is probably the best comparison with Smith in measurables entering into the league, and if Smith can play at his level, the team will be in good shape down the road.

A big question is whether Smith can effectively play the 3-4 OLB position. I graded him as the second best 3-4 OLB in this draft (after Miller), but the transition has been rough in coverage, and this is limiting his playing time to almost strictly rushing the passer in a three point stance. JPP is a 4-3 DE, and this may end up being the best position for Smith in the NFL.

His playing time is limited because Parys is a better run stopper and diagnoses a RB coming coming out of the backfield quickler at this point in time, not because of talent but solely due to experience. It's not like Parys is a Julian Peterson type LB in coverage. Suggs also was also "limited" in his rookie year and supposedly better for the 4-3 end position and look how that turned out. If/when he bulks up from NFL conditioning programs, Aldon will look allot more like Suggs than JPP.

"Suggs' (6'3, 260) enjoyed immediate success as a rookie in 2003 as he tied an NFL record by posting a sack in each of his first four games. He finished the season with 27 tackles (19 solo), 12 sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 2 pass deflections and 1 interception, earning him Defensive Rookie of The Year honors while only starting one game that year." Compare that to Aldon's rookie year so far with 20 tackle (16 solo) 7.5 sacks, 1FF... aside from the forced fumbles, they are having pretty similar starts to their careers. Project Aldons(6'4, 258) stats to 16 games and you get 29 tackles & 11 sacks. Stats obviously arent everything but Aldon has been a force whenever hes in the game just like Suggs was as a rookie, hopefully he can continue it.
[ Edited by 5280High on Nov 30, 2011 at 5:54 PM ]
Originally posted by mike:
I guess you missed the one where he picked up the wrong guy and let someone come straight up the middle for the sack.

they both came straight up the middle he tried to slow one down by sticking his butt out and didn't get to the other defender in time to make a clean block lol
Remember when many of us wanted Bowman to get more PT just for the sake of his development. We should feel the same about Aldon
  • kush
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Amen, great point. ^
[ Edited by Baugh_Area on Nov 30, 2011 at 6:34 PM ]
Originally posted by danimal:
Remember when many of us wanted Bowman to get more PT just for the sake of his development. We should feel the same about Aldon

but maybe Bowman's success has come because he was brought along slowly over his rookie year, in which case we should do exactly what we did with him with Aldon.

Many of you are stating what I am saying, that while Aldon has great potential, and has produced well as a backup, he is not at this stage a great player, and unworthy of the mountain of accolades thrown at him by many board members. If he was tremendous right now, he would be starting. The excitement is based on potential, not making a marked difference for a team right now, as in the cases of Miller, Kerrigan, Watt, and others who are starting and changing the face of their team's defense.

I mean, how many "Will Aldon get 20+ sacks?" and "Smith DROY" like threads can be tossed on the board.