Is David Akers the best kicker we ever had?

Originally posted by oldman9er:
1. Niners got the call.
2. Niners were skeptical, but went out to have a look out of respect for Manning and due diligence.
3. Niners quickly knew that the asking price and control-factor wasn't palatable.
4. Niners did Manning and their agent a favor by pretending to stay in the hunt.. thereby driving up the offers from Denver and Tennessee.

I think that sounds just about right but nowhere does that imply that we intended on keeping Alex even if the stars did align with Manning. That's beyond our control because Alex was a free agent.

The lesson to be learned here is when you're contempt with what you have there's no reason to pursuit questionable relationships. I said this before but most organizations with a stable qb situation would just tell him thanks but no thanks we're happy with what we got.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I think that sounds just about right but nowhere does that imply that we intended on keeping Alex even if the stars did align with Manning. That's beyond our control because Alex was a free agent.

The lesson to be learned here is when you're contempt with what you have there's no reason to pursuit questionable relationships. I said this before but most organizations with a stable qb situation would just tell him thanks but no thanks we're happy with what we got.

contempt? Oh, of course you meant content, okay.

and no... not just no, but hell no. There are very few teams that should not have looked Manning's way.. at least to take a peek. Teams like New Orleans, GB, NYG, NE, and Detroit? Yeah, they can afford to not look at all. But for every other team, if Manning calls? You answer the damn phone.

So why make this post? Only to suggest that SF is not content with Alex? Why would you even do that? Don't answer me.. just ask yourself that question.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
contempt? Oh, of course you meant content, okay.

and no... not just no, but hell no. There are very few teams that should not have looked Manning's way.. at least to take a peek. Teams like New Orleans, GB, NYG, NE, and Detroit? Yeah, they can afford to not look at all. But for every other team, if Manning calls? You answer the damn phone.

So why make this post? Only to suggest that SF is not content with Alex? Why would you even do that? Don't answer me.. just ask yourself that question.

Don't respond if you don't want an answer. Why you post these observations and then say don't respond back just shows your own arrogance. I'm not interested in hearing your thoughts because I know you're secretly slamming Alex.

Yes, I'm saying we shouldn't have looked into Manning. Don't get me wrong I understand why we did, but when your interest is at 60% of everyone elses it's not going to happen. I'm complimenting Alex here. He deserved better than this. How that can be seen as an insult to you just shows your silly belief that everyone who tries to be objective has some secret vendetta against Alex.

Thanks for being the grammar police too, but that's pretty much what I expect from you.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
contempt? Oh, of course you meant content, okay.

and no... not just no, but hell no. There are very few teams that should not have looked Manning's way.. at least to take a peek. Teams like New Orleans, GB, NYG, NE, and Detroit? Yeah, they can afford to not look at all. But for every other team, if Manning calls? You answer the damn phone.

So why make this post? Only to suggest that SF is not content with Alex? Why would you even do that? Don't answer me.. just ask yourself that question.

Don't respond if you don't want an answer. Why you post these observations and then say don't respond back just shows how ignorant you are to anyone who challenges the organization's decisions.

Yes, I'm saying we shouldn't have looked into Manning. Don't get me wrong I understand why we did, but when your interest is at 60% of everyone elses it's not going to happen. I'm complimenting Alex here. He deserved better than this. How that can be seen as an insult to you just shows your silly belief that everyone who tries to be objective has some secret vendetta against Alex.

Thanks for being the grammar police too, but that's pretty much what I expect from you.

How "ignorant I am to anyone that challenges the organization's decisions?" LOL... wow... whatever that little hissy-fit meant.

At least we learned something for the future. We know now to not even bother with each other.

< enter your "get last word in" here, if ya want. Otherwise...

See ya.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
How "ignorant I am to anyone that challenges the organization's decisions?" LOL... wow... whatever that little hissy-fit meant.

At least we learned something for the future. We know now to not even bother with each other.

< enter your "get last word in" here, if ya want. Otherwise...

See ya.

It was the organization's decision to look into an another option. Not mine not anyone elses so don't get mad if people break down our intentions.

There is no secret personal vendetta against Alex. I think pretty much all "dectractors" feel the same way about him that they do. That's not saying Alex is a bust or isn't a good qb or can't turn into a franchise qb.

But as you said

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
All this here smart talk gotta get on down the road, fella.

King Lear?


...or more likely...King Leer?

King Lard

LOL...and the other guy makes a good Falstaff!

Originally posted by tjd808185:
You might have a point if these guys didn't have agents and were negotiating blindly. It's a pretty safe assumption that we had a general idea of what Peyton Manning was looking for when he called us. When this was happening I, just a random nobody off the street, knew that Peyton Manning was looking for a 5 year deal worth somewhere in the range of 90 million dollars. You're telling me Harbaugh and Balke didn't know that? You're telling me that Harbaugh and Balke are so naive that they would take Manning calling us to gage our interest means he might be willing to go in ring whore mode which doesn't even exist for NFL qbs.

Yes, it was a safe assumption that Peyton was looking for a 5 year deal around $90M. I agree. Yes, it was a rumored report that pretty much everybody was aware of (this includes you, me, the media, the entire Webzone, and Harbaugh/Baalke). I agree. Somewhere in this thread, you said that you believed Harbaugh/Baalke felt strongly about Alex and he was most likely their guy from the beginning. I agree. You also said you didn't think we were serious contenders for Peyton. I agree.

Now lets add this all up...Harbaugh & Baalke like Alex, they have an understanding of what Peyton is likely to demand, and they aren't willing to agree to Peyton's expected demands. Knowing all that, they STILL took the time to fly out and evaluate Manning. What does this tell us? It tells us that Baalke & Harbaugh do their due diligence and keep an open mind for all possibilities. They think outside the box and don't close the door on options based on pure assumption. No matter how unlikely or obvious something is, they remain thorough in their work. Does it mean they think Peyton will accept an unfavorable, or like you say, an "insulting" situation? NO. Does it mean they think Peyton will even agree to meet somewhere in the middle? NO. All it means is that they are willing to evaluate and consider everything...from the unlikely/best case scenario (Peyton + Alex together), to the most likely scenario (Peyton OR Alex), to the worst case scenario (Neither Peyton or Alex).

Again, lets go back to my original point. In Harbaugh's quote, he claims that they evaluated a scenario which included Peyton & Alex both on the roster. I believe he's telling the truth because everybody knows Harbaugh & Baalke have open minds, think outside the box, and are very thorough. There's nothing far fetched about them considering an idea no matter how likely or unlikely it is. Plus they've made several unconventional moves (on and off the field), so it would actually be uncharacteristic of them if they didn't take the time to consider "absurd" ideas. You, on the other hand, think he's lying because you believe that they would never evaluate something you believe to be impossible or highly unlikely.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The notion that someone would come down from that to a deal that doesn't even guarantee him a starting job is absurd. It's absurd to think that Peyton Manning would even consider a job that barely guarantees him a chance to start. Maybe I'm wrong maybe Harbaugh and Balke believes in fairy tales. I'm not buying that though. There's nothing we can say to change each other opinion so you can have the last word if you want but it's been fun.

You're continuing to debate things I'm not even arguing. I'm not claiming that I believe Peyton would accept the unlikely scenario, and I'm not claiming Baalke & Harbaugh believed he would accept it either. I'm claiming that Baalke & Harbaugh considered all possibilities prior to the evaluation period and kept those things in mind. I don't think their intention of meeting with Peyton was to simply offer him the unlikely scenario right off the bat...I think their intention was to check him out (through physical workouts & conversations) and eliminate their options from there.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The lesson to be learned here is when you're contempt with what you have there's no reason to pursuit questionable relationships. I said this before but most organizations with a stable qb situation would just tell him thanks but no thanks we're happy with what we got.

I disagree. This goes against Harbaugh/Baalke's philosophy of always trying to get better. I like the fact that our GM & HC won't settle for just being satisfied. I'm actually a big fan and supporter of Alex but even though he was put in an unfavorable situation, I appreciate the fact that the guys in charge are always looking to improve the team if given the opportunity. Its their job to field the best team and I'm sure the players understand that. Harbaugh & Baalke made it clear that they want competition at all times.

I think the lesson learned here is that Baalke & Harbaugh are always looking to make the team better no matter what.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Really like what you do here, candlestick49er. Glad you found the WZ. Your posts are detailed.. respectful.. and intelligent.

I second that sentiment.

I appreciate it guys. I'm pretty new as a poster, but I've been visiting the WZ for years.

Go Niners!

Originally posted by 49erfannindy:
I don't think Harbaugh is one to lie about anything. I believe what coach said.

That man will say whatever he believes benefits the team. Lie or not.

Originally posted by 49Perspectives:

Originally posted by 49erfannindy:

I don't think Harbaugh is one to lie about anything. I believe what coach said.

That man will say whatever he believes benefits the team. Lie or not.

Agreed

I'd like a reporter to ask Peyton about it. Peyton is usually pretty honest and if you catch him at the right time he might bring clarity to how it went down.

My opinion is that our guys considered Peyton and looked at how it could work, but didn't really pursue him any further than any other FA we look at or work out, but don't make an offer to.

It all doesn't really matter because things now are what they are, but I'd like there to be some resolution to the question so poeople can know what they're arguing about when they talk s**t about Harbaugh etc. I wouldn't be ashamed of our FO if they pursued Manning, I just don't think they really did, yet most people outside of SF, and many SF fans, think he's lying. I don't think he's lying at all and I think Petyon could clarify the issue.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

contempt? Oh, of course you meant content, okay.

and no... not just no, but hell no. There are very few teams that should not have looked Manning's way.. at least to take a peek. Teams like New Orleans, GB, NYG, NE, and Detroit? Yeah, they can afford to not look at all. But for every other team, if Manning calls? You answer the damn phone.

So why make this post? Only to suggest that SF is not content with Alex? Why would you even do that? Don't answer me.. just ask yourself that question.

Don't respond if you don't want an answer. Why you post these observations and then say don't respond back just shows how ignorant you are to anyone who challenges the organization's decisions.

Yes, I'm saying we shouldn't have looked into Manning. Don't get me wrong I understand why we did, but when your interest is at 60% of everyone elses it's not going to happen. I'm complimenting Alex here. He deserved better than this. How that can be seen as an insult to you just shows your silly belief that everyone who tries to be objective has some secret vendetta against Alex.

Thanks for being the grammar police too, but that's pretty much what I expect from you.

How "ignorant I am to anyone that challenges the organization's decisions?" LOL... wow... whatever that little hissy-fit meant.

At least we learned something for the future. We know now to not even bother with each other.

< enter your "get last word in" here, if ya want. Otherwise...

See ya.

No, I get the last word. If the two of you can't have a sensible exchange without getting personal, then don't. I don't want to have to wade through this sort of silliness to try to find a sensible post.

Stop.

This seems to be a Smith thread that disguised itself using Manning in the title...not saying the original post intended that to happen. If agents ever read this forum they would get a kick out this thread though, how much cr*p they can stir up with a phone call.

Condon--"Mr. Baalke? Peyton wants to know if you are interested in signing him?"

Baalke--"Uh...ya...I guess...maybe...under the right circumstances."

Condon--"We're working out on the east coast this week, interested?"

Baalke--"Uh...OK...we could attend that."


Media Types: "In an effort to dump Alex Smith, Harbaugh has sought out the services of Hall of Fame QB Peyton Manning. The team has finally shown just how much commitment they do not have for Smith and it is obvious that they would rather have an injured player over Alex. It should also be obvious that Harbaugh has been lying ever since his first statement about Smith being a good QB."

Anti-Smith Zoners: "See, even Harbaalke hates Smith! He is the suxrs!"

I don't see what the big deal is.

Alex Smith was a free agent. Peyton Manning was a free agent. Alex had a contract offer, wasn't signing, Peyton was available. The 49ers took a quiet look at him. It doesn't seem like they made an offer, probably already figuring that Peyton would get a huge contract that they weren't willing to offer. Alex Smith met with Miami. Alex Smith re-signed.

Doesn't seem like anything wrong on anyone's end. Alex Smith tested the free agent market. Peyton Manning visited with a Super Bowl contender. The 49ers did their due diligence and met with a future Hall of Famer. The 49ers got their QB. Peyton got paid and went to another Super Bowl contender.

The media and fans are making too big a deal out of this. Alex would've been foolish to not test free agency and possibly try to get more money if there was perceived interest, even if it was only to leverage a deal with the 49ers. The 49ers wouldn't look committed to winning if they didn't take a look at Peyton, one of the top 3, if not THE best, quarterback in the last decade. Peyton Manning, in the later stages of his career, would've done well to land on a team with a QB-friendly staff, and a championship-level roster.

Everyone did what they were supposed to do. In going back to Harbaugh/Baalke, they did this very quietly because they didn't want to make a big deal out of it. Meanwhile, Peyton Manning did the 49ers a courtesy by not releasing the information that he met with the 49ers. We all knew this would be a media circus, and it's going to be a running commentary for the 49ers & Alex Smith this season during every game.

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Yes, it was a safe assumption that Peyton was looking for a 5 year deal around $90M. I agree. Yes, it was a rumored report that pretty much everybody was aware of (this includes you, me, the media, the entire Webzone, and Harbaugh/Baalke). I agree. Somewhere in this thread, you said that you believed Harbaugh/Baalke felt strongly about Alex and he was most likely their guy from the beginning. I agree. You also said you didn't think we were serious contenders for Peyton. I agree.

Now lets add this all up...Harbaugh & Baalke like Alex, they have an understanding of what Peyton is likely to demand, and they aren't willing to agree to Peyton's expected demands. Knowing all that, they STILL took the time to fly out and evaluate Manning. What does this tell us? It tells us that Baalke & Harbaugh do their due diligence and keep an open mind for all possibilities. They think outside the box and don't close the door on options based on pure assumption. No matter how unlikely or obvious something is, they remain thorough in their work. Does it mean they think Peyton will accept an unfavorable, or like you say, an "insulting" situation? NO. Does it mean they think Peyton will even agree to meet somewhere in the middle? NO. All it means is that they are willing to evaluate and consider everything...from the unlikely/best case scenario (Peyton + Alex together), to the most likely scenario (Peyton OR Alex), to the worst case scenario (Neither Peyton or Alex).

Again, lets go back to my original point. In Harbaugh's quote, he claims that they evaluated a scenario which included Peyton & Alex both on the roster. I believe he's telling the truth because everybody knows Harbaugh & Baalke have open minds, think outside the box, and are very thorough. There's nothing far fetched about them considering an idea no matter how likely or unlikely it is. Plus they've made several unconventional moves (on and off the field), so it would actually be uncharacteristic of them if they didn't take the time to consider "absurd" ideas. You, on the other hand, think he's lying because you believe that they would never evaluate something you believe to be impossible or highly unlikely.


You're continuing to debate things I'm not even arguing. I'm not claiming that I believe Peyton would accept the unlikely scenario, and I'm not claiming Baalke & Harbaugh believed he would accept it either. I'm claiming that Baalke & Harbaugh considered all possibilities prior to the evaluation period and kept those things in mind. I don't think their intention of meeting with Peyton was to simply offer him the unlikely scenario right off the bat...I think their intention was to check him out (through physical workouts & conversations) and eliminate their options from there.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The lesson to be learned here is when you're contempt with what you have there's no reason to pursuit questionable relationships. I said this before but most organizations with a stable qb situation would just tell him thanks but no thanks we're happy with what we got.

I disagree. This goes against Harbaugh/Baalke's philosophy of always trying to get better. I like the fact that our GM & HC won't settle for just being satisfied. I'm actually a big fan and supporter of Alex but even though he was put in an unfavorable situation, I appreciate the fact that the guys in charge are always looking to improve the team if given the opportunity. Its their job to field the best team and I'm sure the players understand that. Harbaugh & Baalke made it clear that they want competition at all times.

I think the lesson learned here is that Baalke & Harbaugh are always looking to make the team better no matter what.



I appreciate it guys. I'm pretty new as a poster, but I've been visiting the WZ for years.

Go Niners!

I don't think we're too far apart. The only thing we actually disagree about is what value they placed on Manning. We both agree it was nowhere near 90 million but were we separate is starter and backup value. I think the scenario that you're advocating is a slap in the face to Peyton and I don't think we'd bother doing that.

I want to apologize once again for any rudeness I displayed to you, and I do respect your opinion I just don't agree with it. I don't think we were trying to insult Alex in anyway shape or form. One of the greatest qbs ever called and we did our due dillegence and gaged his interest. I don't even think we got the part of what is value as a Niner was. It was us looking at him and saying could this work and neither side felt too comfortable about it. It's very likely that we were looking at the football aspect of this. Forget contracts although I'm sure we had ceiling number in mind. Here's one of the greatest qbs to ever play the game let's see how he fits with what we do and if that all works out and both sides are liking what they see we can talk out a deal from there.

are people seriously still arguing about this?

they went all the way to the east coast to evaluate him, then he went through the trouble of calling them personally to let them know he was going elsewhere.

you can argue what degree of serious that is, which is about as meaningful as arguing what item of food is more delicious. that is serious, period.

harbaugh was talking out of his ass, which is nothing new. he says lots of ridiculous stuff like alex is elite, crabtree has the best hands, yada yada yada. its just posturing and fodder to get the media talking in circles so he can get his work done while they're busy chasing their tails.