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What is missing from the Offense now??

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Even with Braylon, he doesn't seem to get any separation on those deep routes. I know he can go up and get it, but that's too much of a risky play.

We need to get a true deep ball threat, we really haven't had one since Antonio Bryant.
I agree. I live out East and have only seen the niners play live once this season (Redskins). But I didn't see Braylon having much explosion at all in his routes. More of a big, physical, possession guy. Which is how we're using him.

Maybe someone who sees the team in person more than me can correct me on this.
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Even with Braylon, he doesn't seem to get any separation on those deep routes. I know he can go up and get it, but that's too much of a risky play.

We need to get a true deep ball threat, we really haven't had one since Antonio Bryant.
I agree. I live out East and have only seen the niners play live once this season (Redskins). But I didn't see Braylon having much explosion at all in his routes. More of a big, physical, possession guy. Which is how we're using him.

Maybe someone who sees the team in person more than me can correct me on this.

You guys are talking about us not having what most would consider a perfect WR. Most teams don't have this. If a WR is fast enough, he isn't reliable in other areas, see Ginn. We can't just hope to acquire a speedster because then our offense become predicable when that receiver is in or not as much of a complete field threat.

Between Braylon, Vernon, and Williams, we have deep threats...we just don't have that perfect WR.
Originally posted by susweel:
This Crabtree has been a disappoint for a #10 pick.

True. He hasn't played like a 10th pick, but he is getting better. Perhaps the first-round picks of the last half decade were all late-bloomers.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Even with Braylon, he doesn't seem to get any separation on those deep routes. I know he can go up and get it, but that's too much of a risky play.

We need to get a true deep ball threat, we really haven't had one since Antonio Bryant.
I agree. I live out East and have only seen the niners play live once this season (Redskins). But I didn't see Braylon having much explosion at all in his routes. More of a big, physical, possession guy. Which is how we're using him.

Maybe someone who sees the team in person more than me can correct me on this.

You guys are talking about us not having what most would consider a perfect WR. Most teams don't have this. If a WR is fast enough, he isn't reliable in other areas, see Ginn. We can't just hope to acquire a speedster because then our offense become predicable when that receiver is in or not as much of a complete field threat.

Between Braylon, Vernon, and Williams, we have deep threats...we just don't have that perfect WR.

That's not what I was saying. The OPs question was what's missing on offense. Some people opined that we were missing a deep threat, and others responded that Braylon was that guy already. I just don't see Braylon in that role anymore. Can Braylon run a fly pattern or a deep post? Sure. But are CBs worried about getting blown by, so that they give more cushion? Do d-coordinators see Braylon Edwards on the field and roll a safety over to provide help over the top? I don't see it.

Desean Jackson is far from the perfect receiver, but when he pushes the safeties back twenty yards, he opens up the Eagles' whole offense even if he doesn't get thrown to. I wish we had a guy who could do that too.
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Even with Braylon, he doesn't seem to get any separation on those deep routes. I know he can go up and get it, but that's too much of a risky play.

We need to get a true deep ball threat, we really haven't had one since Antonio Bryant.
I agree. I live out East and have only seen the niners play live once this season (Redskins). But I didn't see Braylon having much explosion at all in his routes. More of a big, physical, possession guy. Which is how we're using him.

Maybe someone who sees the team in person more than me can correct me on this.

You guys are talking about us not having what most would consider a perfect WR. Most teams don't have this. If a WR is fast enough, he isn't reliable in other areas, see Ginn. We can't just hope to acquire a speedster because then our offense become predicable when that receiver is in or not as much of a complete field threat.

Between Braylon, Vernon, and Williams, we have deep threats...we just don't have that perfect WR.

That's not what I was saying. The OPs question was what's missing on offense. Some people opined that we were missing a deep threat, and others responded that Braylon was that guy already. I just don't see Braylon in that role anymore. Can Braylon run a fly pattern or a deep post? Sure. But are CBs worried about getting blown by, so that they give more cushion? Do d-coordinators see Braylon Edwards on the field and roll a safety over to provide help over the top? I don't see it.

Desean Jackson is far from the perfect receiver, but when he pushes the safeties back twenty yards, he opens up the Eagles' whole offense even if he doesn't get thrown to. I wish we had a guy who could do that too.

Delanie is starting to become that guy. Defenses are keying in on him and it was evident on that TD to Vernon Davis. When Davis caught the ball there was no one around and all he had to do was use his speed to get to the endzone and beat one guy.
[ Edited by gamechanger on Nov 14, 2011 at 10:34 AM ]
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Even with Braylon, he doesn't seem to get any separation on those deep routes. I know he can go up and get it, but that's too much of a risky play.

We need to get a true deep ball threat, we really haven't had one since Antonio Bryant.
I agree. I live out East and have only seen the niners play live once this season (Redskins). But I didn't see Braylon having much explosion at all in his routes. More of a big, physical, possession guy. Which is how we're using him.

Maybe someone who sees the team in person more than me can correct me on this.

You guys are talking about us not having what most would consider a perfect WR. Most teams don't have this. If a WR is fast enough, he isn't reliable in other areas, see Ginn. We can't just hope to acquire a speedster because then our offense become predicable when that receiver is in or not as much of a complete field threat.

Between Braylon, Vernon, and Williams, we have deep threats...we just don't have that perfect WR.

That's not what I was saying. The OPs question was what's missing on offense. Some people opined that we were missing a deep threat, and others responded that Braylon was that guy already. I just don't see Braylon in that role anymore. Can Braylon run a fly pattern or a deep post? Sure. But are CBs worried about getting blown by, so that they give more cushion? Do d-coordinators see Braylon Edwards on the field and roll a safety over to provide help over the top? I don't see it.

Desean Jackson is far from the perfect receiver, but when he pushes the safeties back twenty yards, he opens up the Eagles' whole offense even if he doesn't get thrown to. I wish we had a guy who could do that too.

The only thing Jackson doesn't do is a slant. Teams don't play him 20 yards back because he kills them with the screen pass or quick hitches that he turns into big plays. He is effective everywhere on the field which causes teams to help with FS over the top. We have Vernon who requires similar coverage over the top. Braylon is a top level deep threat. He isn't the best but he's in or right there with the top 10.

How many deep pass have you seen us attempt? I haven't seen many. The CLE game, we threw deep the most and most of them were open but Alex was off on that day.
Nothing, we are 8 and 1 thru the tough part of our schedule.
Yeah, its mind boggling how many passes are dropped by the entire offense that are absolutely perfect throws.

But true...we are missing lots of crossing patterns by the WR's and post patterns as well as more screens passes; need more quick slants too.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Red Zone offense needs to improve.... If we score TDs instead of field goals, we blow out Cleveland, Washington and probably put away the Giants. I don't want the bad teams in our division sticking around in the games they play against us.

Excellent post and point!
Originally posted by Joecool:
The only thing Jackson doesn't do is a slant. Teams don't play him 20 yards back because he kills them with the screen pass or quick hitches that he turns into big plays. He is effective everywhere on the field which causes teams to help with FS over the top. We have Vernon who requires similar coverage over the top. Braylon is a top level deep threat. He isn't the best but he's in or right there with the top 10.

How many deep pass have you seen us attempt? I haven't seen many. The CLE game, we threw deep the most and most of them were open but Alex was off on that day.

Teams rarely play man against the Eagles to begin with, but when they do they play deep with safety help over to Jackson. More often, they play some sort of deep zone. I can't remember ever seeing someone press up on Jackson. You might win 4/5 times pressing him, but that fifth time would get you killed.

I like Jackson as a player, but he's more limited IMO then you described. He doesn't cross the field unless it's a deep cross. He doesn't really run any option route unless it's the go route/deep comeback, probably because he's so fast it's hard to do adjustments on the fly. His route running can break down. (Of course there are other things too: he doesn't block; he'll drop a pass; he's a headcase, etc.) Basically, he's a fast perimeter player, of the type the Eagles love and seem to stockpile. Whereas we seem to prefer physical possession types (it sometimes seems like we are even trying to shoehorn Ginn into this sort of role, with uneven results). I think we could use one of their types, and they could probably use one of ours.
Starting to think WR would be a nice first pick
Dwayne bowe this FA


Beast of a RZ target
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Dwayne bowe this FA


Beast of a RZ target

wont happen
Always room for improvement.

My vote for the biggest upside factor is Braylon Edwards health. He still doesn't look close to 100% to me, in terms of explosion off the line, speed, cutting ability, and crispness of his pattern running. Edwards is doing a solid job of using his big body to shield-off defenders and secure the ball in traffic with good hands, but that makes him more similar to a TE, like Tony Gonzalez, than the field-stretching, home-run hitter, that he can be.
[ Edited by jimbagg on Nov 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM ]
Losses.
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