There are 161 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Media and the 49ers

This is a solid article. I don't agree with all of it but it makes good points. My take on the offensive struggles is that it is mainly due to Kap being a young unpolished QB, like all QBs making their 20th (or whatever) start. This restricts the offense in what they are able to do and how dynamic it can be. However, the coaches receive most of the blame for not acknowledging this fact (Kap's inexperience) and not holding Kap's hands to guide him through this learning stage.

Things mentioned in the article like not enough screen passes and rollouts when facing high QB pressure are very valid and has been mentioned on this forum way before this article was written. There were numerous draw plays in the CAR game so I don't know if Cohn was referring to this past game or the season in general. My biggest criticism of this offense since post week 3 has been the underutilization of the RBs in the passing game. I am just being a broken record by saying pass to the RBs in the flats! It is easy to do and forces the LBs to spread itself wide which opens the middle for scrambling and for the TEs to work. I saw one good pass to Gore vs CAR and another to Hunter that was thrown a bit inaccurately causing a drop, but Hunter was open and would have converted a 1st down.

I agree with this article in that the coaches are to blame for the majority of the struggles. But the reason they deserve most of the blame is that they are making it very difficult for a QB at Kap's stage of development to succeed.
[ Edited by thl408 on Nov 12, 2013 at 9:52 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I should have written that better, wasn't trying to call "you" out specifically, but I keep seeing certain individuals who aren't fooling anyone with their shallow, ceaseless criticism, wasn't trying to point you out directly, sorry.

Well, I'll be honest, I think Kaep is playing like crap... I blame Harbaugh in that he's not protecting his QB by going back to the same offense we used for 2011 and most of 2012. There's no reason to put everything on Kaep...he's still too raw. Let him grow without killing his confidence.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I should have written that better, wasn't trying to call "you" out specifically, but I keep seeing certain individuals who aren't fooling anyone with their shallow, ceaseless criticism, wasn't trying to point you out directly, sorry.

No, you are having a 5 yr old's tantrum and accusing people of some nasty things just because they don't share your opinion. That's wrong, and you are out of line. As said before, I will be MORE pissed off if we replaced "my preferred QB" with a fraud instead of a star. We all want Kaep to meet and exceed expectations.

Just because some don't agree with where the lion's share of blame should go, you should not make this about something it is not. It could just be that others have a clearer head about this situation. I am thrilled with how the QB situations are now.... now, I just want BOTH of them to excel where they are.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Well, I'll be honest, I think Kaep is playing like crap... I blame Harbaugh in that he's not protecting his QB by going back to the same offense we used for 2011 and most of 2012. There's no reason to put everything on Kaep...he's still too raw. Let him grow without killing his confidence.

I think Harbaugh almost regards going back to playing offense the way they did with Alex as some sort of admission of failure on his part, I've felt like he wanted a run heavy offense with a QB with a big arm who can punish you deep downfield on the playaction but it just isn't working, they don't have the deep threats for it and Kaepernick's confidence is shaken after the multiple beatings he's taken this season. They need to look at their own gametape from 2011 and get back to the plays they were calling then, make life easier on the quarterback, not more difficult, get the RB's out in space to make catches, force those linebackers to adjust and stay back, spread defense's out, put more pressure on them, make them pay for it dearly when they go blitz crazy like New Orleans more assuredly will this Sunday.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
No, you are having a 5 yr old's tantrum and accusing people of some nasty things just because they don't share your opinion. That's wrong, and you are out of line. As said before, I will be MORE pissed off if we replaced "my preferred QB" with a fraud instead of a star. We all want Kaep to meet and exceed expectations.

Just because some don't agree with where the lion's share of blame should go, you should not make this about something it is not. It could just be that others have a clearer head about this situation. I am thrilled with how the QB situations are now.... now, I just want BOTH of them to excel where they are.

My criticism is right on the money, there are people who need to be called out, they know exactly who they are, like I said, when someone spends more time posting in the Chiefs thread and only comes around when Kaepernick has a bad game, I know exactly what they are all about.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I have to say i read all articles, Cohn, and whomever else, and the only thing i agreed with was this, With Alex, Harbaugh played what he called "small ball, and it worked". I dont like that reference, but thats what he said in the article so i just restated. With Kaep he's trying to play home run ball,, and at the end of that Cohn should of said, it's not working.

Well, no QUESTION we don't even consider small ball..but on the same token, we don't even ATTEMPT a bomb (or ATTEMPT passes inside the EZ). I watched the Hawk game and they religiously practice the deep bomb to compliment the run game. And I swear they completed 100% of the time. LOL.

Our "bomb" is a 15-20 yard pass completed to VD who then out runs everyone. With zero deep post or stop-go or any other myriad of deep route plays that could be used, no DC is going to even guard for this after watching tape of us. Just creep everyone up to the LOS, stack 8-10 in the box and play physical up at the LOS. Simple. Then if you want to get exotic, bring your spy on a blitz.

On the contrary, look how effing far off our CB's were playing on 3rd and 10 all game...not only were they 10+ yards off the LOS to start, they were instantly back-pedaling and naturally, gave up some simple (and critical) first downs. Why? It's not like Cam even attempted a bomb to Ginn or Smith. But Fangio was scared of the possibility. Period.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think Harbaugh almost regards going back to playing offense the way they did with Alex as some sort of admission of failure on his part, I've felt like he wanted a run heavy offense with a QB with a big arm who can punish you deep downfield on the playaction but it just isn't working, they don't have the deep threats for it and Kaepernick's confidence is shaken after the multiple beatings he's taken this season. They need to look at their own gametape from 2011 and get back to the plays they were calling then, make life easier on the quarterback, not more difficult, get the RB's out in space to make catches, force those linebackers to adjust and stay back, spread defense's out, put more pressure on them, make them pay for it dearly when they go blitz crazy like New Orleans more assuredly will this Sunday.

Good point. This may just be where the 'stubborness' comes from. Harbaugh doesn't want to go back to being a dink and dunk team because it might open it up to criticism that he should have just stayed with AS. But really, it doesn't have to be completely like the 2011 offense. There are gray areas as an offense can still dink and dunk with big passing plays thrown in. I really really want to see more of those dink and dunks. Easy for Kap, good gains on 1st down. That makes everything easier.

And unlike the 2011 offense, if it's 3rd and pass it, then by all means throw the ball downfield. That would be be very unlike 2011 and allows Harbaugh to validate his QB change decision. This does seem a bit shallow of Jim to think this way, if he is indeed thinking this way.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I have to say i read all articles, Cohn, and whomever else, and the only thing i agreed with was this, With Alex, Harbaugh played what he called "small ball, and it worked". I dont like that reference, but thats what he said in the article so i just restated. With Kaep he's trying to play home run ball,, and at the end of that Cohn should of said, it's not working.

Well, no QUESTION we don't even consider small ball..but on the same token, we don't even ATTEMPT a bomb (or ATTEMPT passes inside the EZ). I watched the Hawk game and they religiously practice the deep bomb to compliment the run game. And I swear they completed 100% of the time. LOL.

Our "bomb" is a 15-20 yard pass completed to VD who then out runs everyone. With zero deep post or stop-go or any other myriad of deep route plays that could be used, no DC is going to even guard for this after watching tape of us. Just creep everyone up to the LOS, stack 8-10 in the box and play physical up at the LOS. Simple. Then if you want to get exotic, bring your spy on a blitz.

On the contrary, look how effing far off our CB's were playing on 3rd and 10 all game...not only were they 10+ yards off the LOS to start, they were instantly back-pedaling and naturally, gave up some simple (and critical) first downs. Why? It's not like Cam even attempted a bomb to Ginn or Smith. But Fangio was scared of the possibility. Period.

How do you explain the game in New England last season then?! Kaep threw like 3-4 deep bombs, remember the first drive, 45 yard TD strike to Moss on a go route.
Interesting article.

I agree with a good chunk of it. Yes, Alex Smith would have taken a thousand sacks, well may be not quite so bad, I would say perhaps 12 instead of 6 ? So, let's just get Alex Smith out of the way first cos he is not the right QB for us nor is he a QB under the 9ers' payroll.

Screens, slants and all that help to get some kind of rhythm going no doubt. But, I think we can afford to be a bit more aggressive, how about 3 or 4 receiver sets ? I still think we can throw deep downfield. We do have secondary receivers who might as well be called blockers who we have hardly touched and before we know it they are already cut. Was Marlon Moore really that bad ? 1 reception out of 4 targets in 6 games, I can't really tell without having access to film. Jon Baldwin, 3 receptions out of 6 targets in 5 games. Contrast that with Anquan's 41 receptions out of 67 targets in 9 games. Is that for real ?! Noone does that. Take the Panthers for example, they spread the ball amongst their WRs pretty much equally between Ginn, Lafell and Smith. That way at least the opposing D won't be able to cover everyone to leave open targets for Kap.

Another great point of the article is Harbaugh's insistence to run the ball and play smash-mouth football. I have posted about this before after another poster suggested whether the 9ers are "fake tough" ? My reply to him was we might not be "fake tough" per se cos we are considered as one of such teams within this "smash-mouth" category, but the point to note is we are far from being the toughest. In others words, we are tough, but just not that tough. Let's face it, we have got the crap kicked out of us numerous times before, Giants, Vikings, Seahawks, Rams, Ravens and new to that club the Panthers. The truth is we are probably the weakest on that list and with such teams we can't just go "smash-mouth" cos we will lose and worse still our guys will get killed. Has anyone noticed the amount of injuries we always chalk up after a Seahawks game ? Mario (ACL, PCL), Vernon (concussion), etc, etc.

But, assuming Cohn is right, doesn't that mean Harbaugh and Roman are out of their depth ? That is a rather worrying thought, don't you think ? If they don't have the "imagination" as the article spells out, do they at least have the know-how to design much more creative schemes in order to restart our offensive engine ? Hmm...
Originally posted by thl408:
Good point. This may just be where the 'stubborness' comes from. Harbaugh doesn't want to go back to being a dink and dunk team because it might open it up to criticism that he should have just stayed with AS. But really, it doesn't have to be completely like the 2011 offense. There are gray areas as an offense can still dink and dunk with big passing plays thrown in. I really really want to see more of those dink and dunks. Easy for Kap, good gains on 1st down. That makes everything easier.

And unlike the 2011 offense, if it's 3rd and pass it, then by all means throw the ball downfield. That would be be very unlike 2011 and allows Harbaugh to validate his QB change decision. This does seem a bit shallow of Jim to think this way, if he is indeed thinking this way.


The funny thing is that "dinking and dunking" would open defenses up to exactly the sort of deep passes that they've been attempting, it would also force defenses to cover more ground and make defensive coordinators think twice about blitzing so much.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 12, 2013 at 10:12 AM ]
Originally posted by Rascal:
Interesting article.

I agree with a good chunk of it. Yes, Alex Smith would have taken a thousand sacks, well may be not quite so bad, I would say perhaps 12 instead of 6 ? So, let's just get Alex Smith out of the way first cos he is not the right QB for us nor is he a QB under the 9ers' payroll.

Screens, slants and all that help to get some kind of rhythm going no doubt. But, I think we can afford to be a bit more aggressive, how about 3 or 4 receiver sets ? I still think we can throw deep downfield. We do have secondary receivers who might as well be called blockers who we have hardly touched and before we know it they are already cut. Was Marlon Moore really that bad ? 1 reception out of 4 targets in 6 games, I can't really tell without having access to film. Jon Baldwin, 3 receptions out of 6 targets in 5 games. Contrast that with Anquan's 41 receptions out of 67 targets in 9 games. Is that for real ?! Noone does that. Take the Panthers for example, they spread the ball amongst their WRs pretty much equally between Ginn, Lafell and Smith. That way at least the opposing D won't be able to cover everyone to leave open targets for Kap.

Another great point of the article is Harbaugh's insistence to run the ball and play smash-mouth football. I have posted about this before after another poster suggested whether the 9ers are "fake tough" ? My reply to him was we might not be "fake tough" per se cos we are considered as one of such teams within this "smash-mouth" category, but the point to note is we are far from being the toughest. In others words, we are tough, but just not that tough. Let's face it, we have got the crap kicked out of us numerous times before, Giants, Vikings, Seahawks, Rams, Ravens and new to that club the Panthers. The truth is we are probably the weakest on that list and with such teams we can't just go "smash-mouth" cos we will lose and worse still our guys will get killed. Has anyone noticed the amount of injuries we always chalk up after a Seahawks game ? Mario (ACL, PCL), Vernon (concussion), etc, etc.

But, assuming Cohn is right, doesn't that mean Harbaugh and Roman are out of their depth ? That is a rather worrying thought, don't you think ? If they don't have the "imagination" as the article spells out, do they at least have the know-how to design much more creative schemes in order to restart our offensive engine ? Hmm...



I don't believe they are "out of their depth" and seemingly neither does Cohn. When you go to a conference championship and a Superbowl in your first two years, you're obviously doing a lot right. I do think that you need to hit rock bottom sometimes before you realize that you've been f**king up and maybe this is that moment for Harbaugh to acknowledge that this offense needs to change, that they can't just run the ball and look for homeruns in the passing game, that they do need to dink and dunk more and call for shorter routes, spread defenses out, make the offense a lot more difficult to defend.
Another Cheifs thread. Great!
It is the failure to make adjustments during the game and the failure to execute. Our game plan offensively was good enough to get us three scoring drives in the first half. We didn't capitalize and settled for field goals, but if we had executed when our initial plan was trumping Carolina's defensive plan we would have won the game.

Halftime - Carolina makes its adjustments and stops what made us successful in the first half. We don't respond with an adjustment of our own and end up getting shut out in the second half. So, now Carolina knows what is coming. That's fine if your team can execute better than they can, but we didn't.

Execution - plenty of blame to go around. Kaep missed throws, the OLine missed blocks, receivers dropped balls, penalties, fumbles ... it was a collective failure to execute.

Could/Should the coaches have made the adjustments? Tough call. I mean, ultimately I think Harbaugh expects his players to execute - to make blocks, to make catches ... It isn't pride or stupidity that keeps Harbaugh from making the adjustments as much as it is his expectation that these players make plays. If McDonald catches the ball, if Hunter doesn't fumble, if our vaunted O-Line blocks ... we win this game with the game plan the coaches implemented. So, if I'm Harbaugh and I'm getting questions about why we didn't call this play or use this player ... I mean, if the players that did play actually executed the plays that were called, we win.
Originally posted by midrdan:
It is the failure to make adjustments during the game and the failure to execute. Our game plan offensively was good enough to get us three scoring drives in the first half. We didn't capitalize and settled for field goals, but if we had executed when our initial plan was trumping Carolina's defensive plan we would have won the game.

Halftime - Carolina makes its adjustments and stops what made us successful in the first half. We don't respond with an adjustment of our own and end up getting shut out in the second half. So, now Carolina knows what is coming. That's fine if your team can execute better than they can, but we didn't.

Execution - plenty of blame to go around. Kaep missed throws, the OLine missed blocks, receivers dropped balls, penalties, fumbles ... it was a collective failure to execute.

Could/Should the coaches have made the adjustments? Tough call. I mean, ultimately I think Harbaugh expects his players to execute - to make blocks, to make catches ... It isn't pride or stupidity that keeps Harbaugh from making the adjustments as much as it is his expectation that these players make plays. If McDonald catches the ball, if Hunter doesn't fumble, if our vaunted O-Line blocks ... we win this game with the game plan the coaches implemented. So, if I'm Harbaugh and I'm getting questions about why we didn't call this play or use this player ... I mean, if the players that did play actually executed the plays that were called, we win.


The questions that should be asked are..........does the coaching staff utilize the players that they have correctly, do they give them the best possible chance to win? Could they have come up with a much better game plan to beat an aggressive pass rush? Once it became obvious that Carolina was going to keep 8 in the box, why didn't they adjust to that?
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by 190836:
Another excellent article by Lowell Cohn.

said no one ever.

And here I thought you were cool! Respect the legend.
...