Who would you rather have, Willis or Megatron ??

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i definitely think Welker is--and was--more important to that NE offense than Moss.

and I didn't post those projected stats to say that the WR isn't important, I was just trying to say that, while I think Calvin is the most freakish and dangerous and probably the best WR in the game today, he's not the only great WR, and legit arguments could be made in favor of any of them. So I don't think CJ is as far ahead of the pack as some on here suggest.

Maybe there are more legit WR's because teams NEED a legit WR to contend, and typically the strongest linebackers go to the outside where it's easier to find holes to get the QB...Yeah once you open the conversation to LB's PERIOD and we get guys like Ware and Clay Matthews into the conversation as to who changes more games you can see what's more important in this league that emphasizes on the pass rush. Find me a team that won a superbowl with someone like Crabtree as their best WR... now find me a team that won a superbowl with mediocre MLB's. Yeah...Hi saints.

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i definitely think Welker is--and was--more important to that NE offense than Moss.

and I didn't post those projected stats to say that the WR isn't important, I was just trying to say that, while I think Calvin is the most freakish and dangerous and probably the best WR in the game today, he's not the only great WR, and legit arguments could be made in favor of any of them. So I don't think CJ is as far ahead of the pack as some on here suggest.

Maybe there are more legit WR's because teams NEED a legit WR to contend, and typically the strongest linebackers go to the outside where it's easier to find holes to get the QB...Yeah once you open the conversation to LB's PERIOD and we get guys like Ware and Clay Matthews into the conversation as to who changes more games you can see what's more important in this league that emphasizes on the pass rush. Find me a team that won a superbowl with someone like Crabtree as their best WR... now find me a team that won a superbowl with mediocre MLB's. Yeah...Hi saints.

Ummmm The Patriots, The Ravens

Originally posted by verb1der:

Tom Brady won multiple championships with no big time WRs while Ted Bruschi was on D. And yet Pats couldn't win another without Ted Bruschi, even with Randy Moss on offense.


things that make you go...hmmmm....defense does win championships!

This

Willis. I'd rather have the single best player in the league at his position then someone who's "in the mix" with several other. That, of course, is not based on any football logic, only a fan's pride.

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i definitely think Welker is--and was--more important to that NE offense than Moss.

and I didn't post those projected stats to say that the WR isn't important, I was just trying to say that, while I think Calvin is the most freakish and dangerous and probably the best WR in the game today, he's not the only great WR, and legit arguments could be made in favor of any of them. So I don't think CJ is as far ahead of the pack as some on here suggest.

Maybe there are more legit WR's because teams NEED a legit WR to contend, and typically the strongest linebackers go to the outside where it's easier to find holes to get the QB...Yeah once you open the conversation to LB's PERIOD and we get guys like Ware and Clay Matthews into the conversation as to who changes more games you can see what's more important in this league that emphasizes on the pass rush. Find me a team that won a superbowl with someone like Crabtree as their best WR... now find me a team that won a superbowl with mediocre MLB's. Yeah...Hi saints.

New England won three Super Bowls with Troy Brown and Deion Branch as their best wide receivers.

there are definitely players who are potentially more impactful on defense than a middle linebacker, depending on what defense they run. so much depends on the player.

Would I rather have an elite receiver who has two 1,000 yard season in four years, or a linebacker who has been a 1st team All-Pro three out of four years, who can rush the passer, tackle better than anyone in the league, has the speed to catch WR's from behind, covers the entire field, and is a leader of the team?

honestly, i'm not sure why this is a debate.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i definitely think Welker is--and was--more important to that NE offense than Moss.

and I didn't post those projected stats to say that the WR isn't important, I was just trying to say that, while I think Calvin is the most freakish and dangerous and probably the best WR in the game today, he's not the only great WR, and legit arguments could be made in favor of any of them. So I don't think CJ is as far ahead of the pack as some on here suggest.

I'll agree with this. There's more productive receivers than productive middle linebackers. The gap between Calvin Johnson and Miles Austin is much smaller than the gap between Willis and Nick Barnett.

That being said are you trading Jerry Rice for a better middle linebacker. Maybe Rice isn't the best example. Is Dallas trading away Michael Irvin for a better middle linebacker? I don't think so.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. I think you're more likely to succeed with the linebacker because you need a quarterback to dominate in the passing game, but we haven't had a top 10 defense with Willis yet either.

Originally posted by valrod33:
Ummmm The Patriots

Wes Welker destroys crabtree are you kidding me, and that's without even going into the fact that Randy Moss is way better than him too. Elite speed, solid route running, ect. He may have Brady but come on these guys are playmakers even if they don't have the pure size advantage. Crabtree will never require a double coverage, enough said.

edit: didn't realize branch was their best receiver at one point...

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Ummmm The Patriots

LMFAO gtfo. Wes Welker destroys crabtree are you kidding me, and that's without even going into the fact that Randy Moss is way better than him too. Elite speed, solid route running, ect. He may have Brady but come on these guys are playmakers even if they don't have the pure size advantage. Crabtree will never require a double coverage, enough said.

The Patriots didnt win a Super Bowl with Welker and Moss

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Ummmm The Patriots

LMFAO gtfo. Wes Welker destroys crabtree are you kidding me, and that's without even going into the fact that Randy Moss is way better than him too. Elite speed, solid route running, ect. He may have Brady but come on these guys are playmakers even if they don't have the pure size advantage. Crabtree will never require a double coverage, enough said.

The Patriots didnt win a Super Bowl with Welker and Moss

Yup, and the Pats won multiple Superbowls with a "linebacker" like Bruschi.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
New England won three Super Bowls with Troy Brown and Deion Branch as their best wide receivers.

there are definitely players who are potentially more impactful on defense than a middle linebacker, depending on what defense they run. so much depends on the player.

Would I rather have an elite receiver who has two 1,000 yard season in four years, or a linebacker who has been a 1st team All-Pro three out of four years, who can rush the passer, tackle better than anyone in the league, has the speed to catch WR's from behind, covers the entire field, and is a leader of the team?

honestly, i'm not sure why this is a debate.

I wasn't debating how New England won their Super Bowls. Just stating that Teddy Bruschi isn't a Patrick Willis type linebacker. He's a leader, he's got heart, he's talented but with all that team success they had he went to one Pro Bowl.

Point being he's not much different than Troy Brown and Deion Branch. Products of Bill Belichek's system. Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour that's blue chip talent that Bill built his team around. If you go back to my 1st post I said I'd take Suh over Willis and Johnson. That's why.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Ummmm The Patriots

LMFAO gtfo. Wes Welker destroys crabtree are you kidding me, and that's without even going into the fact that Randy Moss is way better than him too. Elite speed, solid route running, ect. He may have Brady but come on these guys are playmakers even if they don't have the pure size advantage. Crabtree will never require a double coverage, enough said.

The Patriots didnt win a Super Bowl with Welker and Moss

Fail

Why is this even a conversation. Our defense has been the only reason why we have any wins since Patrick Willis has been on the team. He's been our core! Calvin Johnson is useless if you have no one to throw to him. PATRICK WILLIS IS THE FACE OF THE 49ers next to now harbaugh. You 49ers fans that would choose Calvin Johnson make me sick! 49ers for life Crabtree, ginn, Edwards, Williams, and Morgan over Calvin Johnson (fact is he's not a 49er so f..k him) and I hope he gets hurt sunday! How's that for a answer

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i definitely think Welker is--and was--more important to that NE offense than Moss.

and I didn't post those projected stats to say that the WR isn't important, I was just trying to say that, while I think Calvin is the most freakish and dangerous and probably the best WR in the game today, he's not the only great WR, and legit arguments could be made in favor of any of them. So I don't think CJ is as far ahead of the pack as some on here suggest.

I'll agree with this. There's more productive receivers than productive middle linebackers. The gap between Calvin Johnson and Miles Austin is much smaller than the gap between Willis and Nick Barnett.

That being said are you trading Jerry Rice for a better middle linebacker. Maybe Rice isn't the best example. Is Dallas trading away Michael Irvin for a better middle linebacker? I don't think so.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. I think you're more likely to succeed with the linebacker because you need a quarterback to dominate in the passing game, but we haven't had a top 10 defense with Willis yet either.

good points. yeah, you wouldn't trade Jerry Rice for even a great middle linebacker. but at this point, Calvin Johnson hasn't been any that much better than Dwayne Bowe. While Willis is on the inside track for the Hall of Fame--he's not there yet, obviously, but the guy has definitely made the plays and gotten the accolades to set him on that path--"Megatron" hasn't shown he's anything other than one of many spectacular modern receivers. He is great, he is elite, but Willis is--today--potentially an all-time great. Maybe in a few years Calvin will prove to be Moss on Steroids and we can revisit this conversation.

Originally posted by verb1der:
Tom Brady won multiple championships with no big time WRs while Ted Bruschi was on D. And yet Pats couldn't win another without Ted Bruschi, even with Randy Moss on offense.


things that make you go...hmmmm....defense does win championships!

this

thats a hard one, i pick willis just because its easier to shutdown a receiver.