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More evidence that our offensive line is terrible

What do you want the GM do? Draft more OL?? Get OL in FA. You offer complaints but no solutions.

Fact: The OL is composed of all top 40 draft picks.

Fact: Several of the players are under long term contracts, so you cannot cut them for dead money reasons.

Fact: Getting rid of the OL would only delay the progress of an NFC championship team.

Fact: The weakest link, RG, Rachal is gone in FA.

Fact: The OL improved under Snyder and if reasonable they should re sign Snyder for OL cohesiveness.

Fact: Boone is signed as a great back up swing tackle.

Fact: Kilgore, Persons, and Beeler might make it where if the niners sign Snyder NO OL will be drafted, UFA, only UDFA will be signed.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Snyder played well. Goodwin sometimes plays on roller skates, but so do many centers. Every line gives up pressure up the middle. I don't think we were abnormal.

I think I know some of the plays you're talking about, and yes, I hate to say it, but I think Smith should have handled them better. The Ravens game was the only time it was a pure jailbreak, and that was when Chilo was in there most of the game.

A lot of also has to do with the strange array of blocking sets we use. Our line gets confused a lot of the time. This season we used a ton of short drops and narrower splits.

Davis is a still a little awkward, but he seals his man off even if he gets beat off the edge. Same with Goodwin. You see, even if a player gets beat up the middle, it doesn't mean the quarterback has to scramble for his life. All he has to do is shuffle to the left of right and let the defender go by while the lineman washes him away. Pressure up the middle shouldn't automatically end a play, unless of course is it from multiple players, like in the Ravens game.

You need to understand which plays I am referring to...the ones where Smith has no time to even turn toward the line, with guys also pushing in from the edges. He had a number of sacks, not just in the Ravens game, where he literally was grabbed by three D players as he reached his drop. That should never, never, never happen.

As for other OLines giving up sacks up the middle I would say it is a rarity with most lines, while I expected at least two of these sacks in every 9er game. Smith also managed to escape many sacks because he is a lot stronger than he looks. He pulled away from some very strong DLmen who thought they had him under wraps.

You seem to give him no credit at all. P. Manning, by the same token, throws the ball into the ground if a D player gets within five feet...not that I compare Smith to Manning because Manning will then make a spectacular play to make up for it. He is the best, or second best, QB in the NFL...when healthy.

Edit: forgot to reiterate that Snyder is not signed, Rachal is not signed, and Snyder is injury prone...as is Staley. So with these facts in mind...h*ll yes there are some concerns about the line!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Mar 6, 2012 at 8:20 PM ]
There's a lot of FA guards this year. They should try to sign one. I have no faith in Chilo or his improvement.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Mar 6, 2012 at 8:45 PM ]
Two words

Carl Nicks
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
Two words

Carl Nicks

Those are very nice words!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
Two words

Carl Nicks

Those are very nice words!
So nice they are worth quite a few million bucks
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
Two words

Carl Nicks

Those are very nice words!

Goodwin should get off his ass. Tweet his bro to San Francisco
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
Two words

Carl Nicks

Those are very nice words!

Goodwin should get off his ass. Tweet his bro to San Francisco

Sounds like a plan!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Sounds like a plan!

It would be a homecoming for Nicks
Staley is good
Iupati is getting good
Goodwin is avg to good
Sender is avg at best but rachal is poor
Davis is avg to above avg

So as a unit we have a weak spot at rg and can easily improve center and rt. since we are staying with Davis at rt and he is improving, we need an upgrade at rg for sure and a future center. Maybe the one from Stanford beeler can replace him.

Overall our ol is average to above average. With time, even with Snyder starting at rg, it can become good. However unless we upgrade our center and rg it will never be very good or great.
Once Chilo leaves the team the line will be great. His presence on the bench is enough to f**k them up
Originally posted by 9erred:
What do you want the GM do? Draft more OL?? Get OL in FA. You offer complaints but no solutions.

Fact: The OL is composed of all top 40 draft picks.

Fact: Several of the players are under long term contracts, so you cannot cut them for dead money reasons.

Fact: Getting rid of the OL would only delay the progress of an NFC championship team.

Fact: The weakest link, RG, Rachal is gone in FA.

Fact: The OL improved under Snyder and if reasonable they should re sign Snyder for OL cohesiveness.

Fact: Boone is signed as a great back up swing tackle.

Fact: Kilgore, Persons, and Beeler might make it where if the niners sign Snyder NO OL will be drafted, UFA, only UDFA will be signed.

Your last comment stating that no O line will be drafted, is opinion not fact. Personally at the minimum I like to see a development prospect taken late each year.
You can some up the short sacks with this:

Our guys are pretty good when blocking one on one. They have talent. Our problem is we are horrible protecting vs the blitz. We have no communication... we got 2 guys blocking 1 guy and others running free. It is partly on the coaches for not having them prepared and able to communicate during various blitzes. Two years in you would think Solari could have taught the guys how to deal with blitzes by now especially considering our guys have gained some chemistry. The second reason would be bad playcalling and the lack of quick throws/slants. I don't know how many times against Baltimore instead of taking advantage and doing 3 step drops and slants (when they sent everybody) we would do 7 step drops and get killed. Makes me hate Roman at times... so stubborn. The 3rd reason would be Alex not getting the ball out quickly... a lot of times he would be under pressure but we have to do more 3 step drops, quick throws and slants and he has to trust the WR and not wait until they are open before throwing it. He has the arm and the accuracy (imo) to put the ball in those spots it's just that he doesn't trust himself or the WRs often. Alex is also quick to check down (which is sometimes a good thing). Part of it's our playing style though. Last reason would be WRs not getting separation... sometimes it's a lack of communication.

So Roman needs to step up, need to go with what works... work on the screen game, work on quick slants and throws, 3 step instead of 7 step drops. Solari and the OL have to step up... Alex, the WRs... almost everyone has been together for long enough it's time to put up or shut up.
The problem against Baltimore, and other well coached good scheme Ds, is that they tend to blitz and drop at the same time. That is, you never know who is going to fake blitzing and then drop into coverage. Baltimore seldom sent more than four but still sacked Smith without being touched. When Smith tried to find a quick read he would see a DT, DE or LB dropping into the middle or covering the flat.

The 9ers do the same thing as I watched J Smith cover the flat a number of times this year and prevent QBs from throwing their outlets. Our OLine was not patient and would move with the fakes, leaving areas in the middle wide open for a hidden blitzer. Suggs made a career game of it against our middle. Snyder was much better than Rachal but he and Goodwin still need to tighten up.

The key is to pick up the blitz and have alternatives that work. If a DT is covering the flat the QB could roll that direction and give the RB time to beat him around the corner, for instance. But throwing over the middle when you have folks dropping into the lanes is risky business. Smith will likely improve on his ability to thread the ball into the middle if they find some WRs who want to run those routes (as K Williams did somewhat last year).
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by 9erred:
What do you want the GM do? Draft more OL?? Get OL in FA. You offer complaints but no solutions.

Fact: The OL is composed of all top 40 draft picks.

Fact: Several of the players are under long term contracts, so you cannot cut them for dead money reasons.

Fact: Getting rid of the OL would only delay the progress of an NFC championship team.

Fact: The weakest link, RG, Rachal is gone in FA.

Fact: The OL improved under Snyder and if reasonable they should re sign Snyder for OL cohesiveness.

Fact: Boone is signed as a great back up swing tackle.

Fact: Kilgore, Persons, and Beeler might make it where if the niners sign Snyder NO OL will be drafted, UFA, only UDFA will be signed.

Your last comment stating that no O line will be drafted, is opinion not fact. Personally at the minimum I like to see a development prospect taken late each year.


You are correct, it is not a fact, hypothetically "if" the niners sign Snyder, they might not draft any OL this year. I also agree with you that a developmental player if BPA should be drafted in later round "if" Snyder is signed. If Snyder is not signed, I think RG is a priority and no other FA guard is signed then I hope or pray they get BPA RG that could start from day one. This would probably be in rounds 1,2 or 3. Thus my hypotehtical reasons for wanting Snyder, I want WR, TE, CB in those rounds.