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More evidence that our offensive line is terrible

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Amazing what a difference sitting Chilo down made.


He played in the 4th quarter and did well from what the analyst say. I had a hard time keeping track of the linemen with Sopopaga and extra TEs in the game! Fun stuff. Love that overload look they used on some plays.
Let's talk offensive line again b/c while they played serviceable last year and showed promise in a lot of areas, they still gave up the most sacks in the NFL and that was with many quick throws and a strong focus on the run game early on.

Is anyone else seriously concerned here? It sort of gets lost in the shuffle of our search for playmakers, expanding the playbook, contracts, FA's, etc. But we can have all the playmakers we want but they will do nothing if Alex is on his back and we can't get any push in the running game (see also, RZ and 3rd down offense...more of a result of getting nothing on 1st downs).
  • Timma
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 137
Not concerned. These youngsters are only going to get better. Either we resign Snyder or Kilgore will hopefully step up. F**k off with Chilo. Many of the sacks came from Alex holding the ball too long which is partially due to lack of playmakers. We should be solving that this offseason. Although Alex could get better at throwing it away or taking a few more calculated risks.
New line scheme - Zone blocking

New offense

No offseason

Chilo in at first - SYNDER comes in

Line gets a lot better.

This is young talented physical offensive line. They are going to get better. I think it says a lot that Staley made the probowl. If they can take their game up a notch next year, we can have a good young core line for a long time.
Originally posted by Timma:
Not concerned. These youngsters are only going to get better. Either we resign Snyder or Kilgore will hopefully step up. F**k off with Chilo. Many of the sacks came from Alex holding the ball too long which is partially due to lack of playmakers. We should be solving that this offseason. Although Alex could get better at throwing it away or taking a few more calculated risks.

/thread
Originally posted by NCommand:
Let's talk offensive line again b/c while they played serviceable last year and showed promise in a lot of areas, they still gave up the most sacks in the NFL and that was with many quick throws and a strong focus on the run game early on.

Is anyone else seriously concerned here? It sort of gets lost in the shuffle of our search for playmakers, expanding the playbook, contracts, FA's, etc. But we can have all the playmakers we want but they will do nothing if Alex is on his back and we can't get any push in the running game (see also, RZ and 3rd down offense...more of a result of getting nothing on 1st downs).


The line's job is to give the quarterback time and open holes for the running back. No matter what the line does, the quarterback has to find a way to get rid of the ball, even if nobody is open. No matter what the line does, the running back has to find a way to make yards and break tackles, even without a hole.

Watching someone like Roethlisberger or Brees play, makes me disregard sack statistics. The quarterback is the determining factor for at LEAST 50% of sacks.
I've seen players running unblocked at Drew Brees from his blindside, yet he still finds a way to dodge them and gets rid of the ball. I've seen Roethlisberger completely wrapped up and surrounded by 2-3 defenders, yet he somehow breaks free and gets rid of the ball.

We have a pretty solid O-line. I'm glad a player like Staley was still able to get some recognition from players and coaches for his ability. I'm certainly NOT concerned about them, because I think they are a strength of the team and are getting better.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Mar 6, 2012 at 5:13 PM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Let's talk offensive line again b/c while they played serviceable last year and showed promise in a lot of areas, they still gave up the most sacks in the NFL and that was with many quick throws and a strong focus on the run game early on.

Is anyone else seriously concerned here? It sort of gets lost in the shuffle of our search for playmakers, expanding the playbook, contracts, FA's, etc. But we can have all the playmakers we want but they will do nothing if Alex is on his back and we can't get any push in the running game (see also, RZ and 3rd down offense...more of a result of getting nothing on 1st downs).


The line's job is to give the quarterback time and open holes for the running back. No matter what the line does, the quarterback has to find a way to get rid of the ball, even if nobody is open. No matter what the line does, the running back has to find a way to make yards and break tackles, even without a hole.

Watching someone like Roethlisberger or Brees play, makes me disregard sack statistics. The quarterback is the determining factor for at LEAST 50% of sacks.
I've seen players running unblocked at Drew Brees from his blindside, yet he still finds a way to dodge them and gets rid of the ball. I've seen Roethlisberger completely wrapped up and surrounded by 2-3 defenders, yet he somehow breaks free and gets rid of the ball.

We have a pretty solid O-line. I'm glad a player like Staley was still able to get some recognition from players and coaches for his ability. I'm certainly NOT concerned about them, because I think they are a strength of the team and are getting better.

Smith made plenty of plays as well. The last play of the Arizona game comes too mind and there was another game at the end where he had to run for his life just to get the pass off and we still gave up the most sacks. There were WAY too many time where pressure came straight up the middle. That just can't happen. I think over time they will get better but they dont really deserve too much praise.
Still concerned but happy with Davis and Iupati. They really need help in the middle and I think it may have to come from a FA. They need a vet to back up Snyder and Goodwin or, better yet, move a vet in at RG so Snyder can be the back up. Happy with Boone backing up the Ts and have hopes for Kilgore. Beeler? Don't know. So, yes there are some huge questions for the line.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Still concerned but happy with Davis and Iupati. They really need help in the middle and I think it may have to come from a FA. They need a vet to back up Snyder and Goodwin or, better yet, move a vet in at RG so Snyder can be the back up. Happy with Boone backing up the Ts and have hopes for Kilgore. Beeler? Don't know. So, yes there are some huge questions for the line.


Pro-Bowl LT, happy with LG and RT, happy with T backup. But you're not happy with interior backup, therefore there are "huge" questions for the line?
How many teams in the league have great depth on their interior line?

We are very fortunate to finally have a solid O-line with good depth at tackle. Every team wants to improve every position, but our o-line seems like it is finally solidly set for the first time in years.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Pro-Bowl LT, happy with LG and RT, happy with T backup. But you're not happy with interior backup, therefore there are "huge" questions for the line?
How many teams in the league have great depth on their interior line?

We are very fortunate to finally have a solid O-line with good depth at tackle. Every team wants to improve every position, but our o-line seems like it is finally solidly set for the first time in years.


Yes, and you are the guy who says QBs make the OLine? So Smith helped Staley become an all pro...just as Brees helped his two Gs become all pro. Did you watch the defenders come untouched up the middle this past season? You have no problem with that? Come on now, you can't think Smith being hit before he can even reach his third step of the drop by an untouched DLman is his fault...what am I thinking, of course you do.

RG and C are still huge problems. Even with Snyder playing they were still weak in pass protection in the middle. Can experience working together help next year? Sure, I think they will be better but I would love to see a solid RG helping Goodwin and Davis next year with Snyder in his valuable utility position. By the way, is Snyder signed? I don't think we currently have a RG signed except for Kilgore, who is listed as LG back up.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Mar 6, 2012 at 6:48 PM ]
Actually, we have one really weak spot and that's RG. Snyder was definitely a step up from Rachal, but his true value is his versatility. Baalke needs to draft a starting caliber OG...there are a number of 'em. Shore that up and we'll see a difference in the entire group. If they can sign a good FA WR, re-sign Morgan, then a guy like Peter Konz deserves consideration. He could be Goodwin's heir apparent at C, but slide over to RG in the interim.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Pro-Bowl LT, happy with LG and RT, happy with T backup. But you're not happy with interior backup, therefore there are "huge" questions for the line?
How many teams in the league have great depth on their interior line?

We are very fortunate to finally have a solid O-line with good depth at tackle. Every team wants to improve every position, but our o-line seems like it is finally solidly set for the first time in years.


Yes, and you are the guy who says QBs make the OLine? So Smith helped Staley become an all pro...just as Brees helped his two Gs become all pro. Did you watch the defenders come untouched up the middle this past season? You have no problem with that? Come on now, you can't think Smith being hit before he can even reach his third step of the drop by an untouched DLman is his fault...what am I thinking, of course you do.

RG and C are still huge problems. Even with Snyder playing they were still weak in pass protection in the middle. Can experience working together help next year? Sure, I think they will be better but I would love to see a solid RG helping Goodwin and Davis next year with Snyder in his valuable utility position. By the way, is Snyder signed? I don't think we currently have a RG signed except for Kilgore, who is listed as LG back up.


Snyder played well. Goodwin sometimes plays on roller skates, but so do many centers. Every line gives up pressure up the middle. I don't think we were abnormal.

I think I know some of the plays you're talking about, and yes, I hate to say it, but I think Smith should have handled them better. The Ravens game was the only time it was a pure jailbreak, and that was when Chilo was in there most of the game.

A lot of also has to do with the strange array of blocking sets we use. Our line gets confused a lot of the time. This season we used a ton of short drops and narrower splits.

Davis is a still a little awkward, but he seals his man off even if he gets beat off the edge. Same with Goodwin. You see, even if a player gets beat up the middle, it doesn't mean the quarterback has to scramble for his life. All he has to do is shuffle to the left of right and let the defender go by while the lineman washes him away. Pressure up the middle shouldn't automatically end a play, unless of course is it from multiple players, like in the Ravens game.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Mar 6, 2012 at 7:15 PM ]
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Actually, we have one really weak spot and that's RG. Snyder was definitely a step up from Rachal, but his true value is his versatility. Baalke needs to draft a starting caliber OG...there are a number of 'em. Shore that up and we'll see a difference in the entire group. If they can sign a good FA WR, re-sign Morgan, then a guy like Peter Konz deserves consideration. He could be Goodwin's heir apparent at C, but slide over to RG in the interim.

I've been replaying the games and Alex can be partially at fault for holding onto the ball too long. Most of the pressure came from the right side. Snyder didn't seem athletic enough and was beat often, Davis compounded the problem with his lackluster play at times. A first rate guard would change the whole situation. I know the 49ers don't pay big bucks to guards but Nicks and Davis would clear out the right side on running plays. Chilo should go ASAP.
Originally posted by RishikeshA:
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Actually, we have one really weak spot and that's RG. Snyder was definitely a step up from Rachal, but his true value is his versatility. Baalke needs to draft a starting caliber OG...there are a number of 'em. Shore that up and we'll see a difference in the entire group. If they can sign a good FA WR, re-sign Morgan, then a guy like Peter Konz deserves consideration. He could be Goodwin's heir apparent at C, but slide over to RG in the interim.

I've been replaying the games and Alex can be partially at fault for holding onto the ball too long. Most of the pressure came from the right side. Snyder didn't seem athletic enough and was beat often, Davis compounded the problem with his lackluster play at times. A first rate guard would change the whole situation. I know the 49ers don't pay big bucks to guards but Nicks and Davis would clear out the right side on running plays. Chilo should go ASAP.


We could certainly upgrade Snyder, but his versatility is what keeps the line from falling apart. He is not great at any one position but he fills in nicely when we have a disaster to mitigate (Chilo).

Disaster mitigation is important.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Mar 6, 2012 at 7:19 PM ]
Davis has progressed well and was better when Chilo's ass got benched. Iupati has been pretty solid. Staley has fallen off a bit imo, but still good. Goodwin is solid at least, and Snyder was good at RG but not a permanent solution.