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More evidence that our offensive line is terrible

  • GORO
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,838
Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Really nice post. I've been goofing around with the idea of shifting Davis to guard, too. But to borrow a baseball term, you'd be losing a lot of "value" in that move, if you know what I mean. Besides, Davis is coming into his own on the outside--even if it is seldom pretty to watch. The move you suggest would, however, make the composition of our line a lot more rational and allow Iupati to blow house-sized holes on his pulls and blast deep into the second level.

When I've goofed around with your suggestion I've backed away from it for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's pretty drastic--realistically, we're a good RG away from a pretty decent OL. Ideally, a better center would be great, but really it's just the RG that we really need. Second, I'd like to see Kilgore get his licks in at RG before we reshuffle our hodge podge OL--you're bang on correct about the philosophical inconsistency in its construction, by the way.

Finally, while I'm sure they're doing a fair amount of cross training, I hope they're doing it for the reason that McKittrick (Marine Corps, ret) did it, rather than doing it because it's something you "should" do.


I think Davis is better of staying at RT. Kilgore really looked good in preseason and I believe he can be an upgrade to snyder. But if it doesnot work then Boone at tackle and Davis to RG would be a last resort.
Originally posted by Rikimaru03:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
If Fleener is taken ahead of us and the FO doesn't like the WR crop available when we pick in the 1st, Id really love for us to get Kevin Zeitler. He was a beast of a Guard for one of the best running attacks in the nation. Those Wisconsin boys know how to play Oline. Plus hes not just a big fat road grader, he can pull and move around and is an excellent pass blocker. He should be available after DeCastro and Glenn are picked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phahBI8uxKw

I kinda agree with this. Obviously DeCastro wont be there when we pick. But I find it hard to believe that both Wright and Hill will be gone. If that is the case, I kinda do believe we should pick Zeitler over Fleener, only because I believe that Fleener is a luxury type pick. We have Vernon as our number 1 and Delanie is more than serviceable as number 2, and in special teams.


I see what you mean about Zeitler. If he is there, I would take him in the first and a wide receiver in the second. Especially if they end up signing Brandon Lloyd or someone like that. On a side note, I wouldn't mind having Ball on my team next year.
Now that Rogers is signed I believe that the biggest needs are down to RG, OC and WR but a guy like Fleener is not necessarily a luxury pick. He is a tremedous Red Zone target and the 9ers have needed one...or two. So I would be fine with drafting him...or sticking with the three main needs. Of course, good GMs don't necessarily pick out of need alone, so it will be fun to watch the draft this year.

My biggest problem with picking another OLman high in the draft this year is that they rarely start right away and the new guy, if a RG, will be next to Davis who needs vet support. That is one of the reasons I thought about moving him inside, so he could play next to Goodwin. If they draft a C then they need a vet at RG. Most good teams have established lines who know each other and who make good decisions together--blitz pickups, etc. The 9ers line should be better this year just because of time together with Goodwin.

So my ideal line in the next couple of years would be one of the following:

Staley--Iupati--Kilgore--Davis--Boone

Staley--Iupati--FA--Kilgore--Davis (Boone possibly for Staley if his back continues to be a problem)

Players positions: Staley--either T, Goodwin--C or G, Kilgore--any inside position, Davis--OT or OG (was terrific G in college), Boone--either T., Iupati--LG.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
We have an interesting line in terms of style. Staley is not a power guy but Iupati and Davis are and were drafted for Singletary's smashmouth style. Goodwin is not a stout guy but is a wiley vet. No RG would seem to be a problem. So it will be interesting to see if there are some shakeups on the OLine this summer to try and develop a cohesive style of line play.

Very few people seem to care that our line is not consistent in their strengths. Staley may be the best pass blocker, but he has had back issues. Iupati has been consistent for a young guy and may be able to adapt to any style. Goodwin worries me as he can't hold up against big nose tackles or late blitzing.

It will be interesting to see if Davis moves to RG so that Boone can play every down. That would leave Kilgore to backup at either G or OC and Person to back up OT. Still a need for another lineman or two. The great SF teams of the 80s cross trained so that they could switch around and fill holes as they came up. Bobb was a master of using small guys to advantaqe but Harbaugh's WCO system is quite different...more power running.

Totally agree.

Staley - tons of injuries, undersized but voted to the probowl. I watched him close last year and he is absolutely useless in getting a push in the run game (usually driven backwards) so that eliminates running off LT even with TE's over there helping. He also gave up a ton of sacks, QB hits and pressures and this was WITH getting double help from Iupati (who pushes his man back and then slides over to help Staley on every play). I know we're talking about a "pro-bowl LT" but truly, we could use someone, anyone (even Boone) who can seal the edge, get a push on the LOS and who can protect Alex's blind-side without the added help from TE's and the LG. One area he does excel at is in space esp. blocking down field. Either way, he is injury prone and we are doing a LOT to overcompensate for him which I fear is creating bigger holes in the middle for Goodwin and not utilizing Iuptai's strengths (push and power and pulling).
Iupati - I think he has been too focused on helping outside and as a result, we can see guys sliding through to the gap between he and Goodwin. He probably has the most potential along the line and is fantastic out in space for a big man, pulling and in getting a push in short yardage.
Goodwin - average, at best center who needs strong guard play to succeed. He is the QB of the OL and let's be real here; we've had a LOT of communication issues with guys running free to the QB in under 2.9 seconds. For a wiley vet, this shouldn't happen! He and his gaps are targets for good, attacking defenses for obvious reasons.
TBD - We need a monster upgrade here
Davis - seems to be getting better and better every game and every year
Boone - I was ore impressed with Boone than Staley last year when he played. He has a hunger and seemed to do a better job at sealing the edge, getting a push and did way better than I expected at protecting the blind side. He just needs more playing time and confidence from the coaching staff.
Kilgore - Too little of a sample size but given we all remember him mauling people from LAST training camp is a good sign. He seems like a nasty RG who would bring some of the Davis-attitude with his play. He's a passionate guy and we need more of this. I'd keep my eye on this one!

Overall - average, at best OL that could use several upgrades and some of those upgrades could already be on the team and just need a chance and a coaching staff to show confidence in them (ala last year with Brooks, Bowman, Brown, etc.).
Wow, IF Manning came to us, this OL could get him murdered over a much more athletic Smith. 44 sacks and we no longer have Synder or Chilo. Would we need to make promises to Manning for upgrades along the OL...and this is a hold up?
Behind our OLine? BYE BYE PEYTONS NECK lol
Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, IF Manning came to us, this OL could get him murdered over a much more athletic Smith. 44 sacks and we no longer have Synder or Chilo. Would we need to make promises to Manning for upgrades along the OL...and this is a hold up?


Can't imagine Manning signing with the niners unless they have a caveat in the contract that guarantees a decent upgrade at RG.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, IF Manning came to us, this OL could get him murdered over a much more athletic Smith. 44 sacks and we no longer have Synder or Chilo. Would we need to make promises to Manning for upgrades along the OL...and this is a hold up?


Can't imagine Manning signing with the niners unless they have a caveat in the contract that guarantees a decent upgrade at RG.

Do we have a RG? An upgrade implies we do.
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, IF Manning came to us, this OL could get him murdered over a much more athletic Smith. 44 sacks and we no longer have Synder or Chilo. Would we need to make promises to Manning for upgrades along the OL...and this is a hold up?


Can't imagine Manning signing with the niners unless they have a caveat in the contract that guarantees a decent upgrade at RG.

Do we have a RG? An upgrade implies we do.


LOL! My mistake! I guess we could say Kilgore is our RG...and I might be OK with that! But right now we have a void and it is troubling! I have faith in Baalke and I imagine he and Harbaugh have discussed the posibilities. Thanks for lighting my mood! Getting a bit wound up by the negativity of the board lately. Perhaps a holiday from posting until training camp? Naw...don't have that will power!