More evidence that our offensive line is terrible

Originally posted by vaden:
final stats for the 2011 season on time QBs had to throw before they were sacked: http://footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2012/under-pressure-violence-rams

Rate of sacks at 3.0+ seconds: 2.6% for Alex, 0.1 better than the NFL average.
Rate of sacks at 2.5-2.9 seconds: 3.7%, 1.5 worse than average
Rate of sacks under 2.5 seconds: 3.3%, 1.5 worse than average

Among QBs who started more than a handful of games, no other QB was sacked at a higher rate in under 2.5 seconds than Alex. Most had a sack rate under 2%

Can't wait for our DL to crush Snyder. Davis should improve a lot if we just get a competent RG.

Nice research! No doubt, the previous stats you showed demonstrated an average, at best, OL across the board.

But these stats are of a huge concern and should not be ignored. Aside from the fact that we gave up 44 sacks and had our QB killed in under 2.9 seconds is alarming for a variety of reasons. The other concern I have is that this line fails on 1st downs which leads to many predictable calls on 2nd and 3rd downs (many 3rd and longs). They are also poor in the RZ, goal line and any short yardage situations...the true mark of a physical, dominate OL.

In short, we can't run when we need to and don't allow our QB time to throw when we need to. There are a combination of reasons for this but no excuses.

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
If Fleener is taken ahead of us and the FO doesn't like the WR crop available when we pick in the 1st, Id really love for us to get Kevin Zeitler. He was a beast of a Guard for one of the best running attacks in the nation. Those Wisconsin boys know how to play Oline. Plus hes not just a big fat road grader, he can pull and move around and is an excellent pass blocker. He should be available after DeCastro and Glenn are picked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phahBI8uxKw

Originally posted by Joecool:
Our OL was much better than the averages show. The away games sack numbers heavily weighted our average along with 2 or 3 games where we gave up 6+ sacks.

Yeah, I mentioned before in the 13 wins I think we had like 24 sacks given up and in the 3 losses 20 (9, 6, 5). So we just have to be more consistent. Can't have 5+ sack games. Otherwise, there were stretches we looked great together... then games we looked horrible. I think RG is the key but don't be surprised if we look to replace Goodwin this year or after next year.

We have an interesting line in terms of style. Staley is not a power guy but Iupati and Davis are and were drafted for Singletary's smashmouth style. Goodwin is not a stout guy but is a wiley vet. No RG would seem to be a problem. So it will be interesting to see if there are some shakeups on the OLine this summer to try and develop a cohesive style of line play.

Very few people seem to care that our line is not consistent in their strengths. Staley may be the best pass blocker, but he has had back issues. Iupati has been consistent for a young guy and may be able to adapt to any style. Goodwin worries me as he can't hold up against big nose tackles or late blitzing.

It will be interesting to see if Davis moves to RG so that Boone can play every down. That would leave Kilgore to backup at either G or OC and Person to back up OT. Still a need for another lineman or two. The great SF teams of the 80s cross trained so that they could switch around and fill holes as they came up. Bobb was a master of using small guys to advantaqe but Harbaugh's WCO system is quite different...more power running.

lol do we need any more evidence? i think we could use an upgrade on every position on the line spare iupati staley (although getting up there in age) and maybe goody... maybe,,,

Originally posted by NinerDieHard:

lol do we need any more evidence? i think we could use an upgrade on every position on the line spare iupati staley (although getting up there in age) and maybe goody... maybe,,,

Staley is 27.

Originally posted by NinerDieHard:
lol do we need any more evidence? i think we could use an upgrade on every position on the line spare iupati staley (although getting up there in age) and maybe goody... maybe,,,

Staley is 27. With his injury history his age isn't as relevant but still, he is relatively young and has five years experience. Goodwin on the other hand...

with Snyder and Chilo gone....we just got better

Originally posted by jreff22:
with Snyder and Chilo gone....we just got better

This.

Chilo was awful. Snyder, while much better than Chilo, is better suited for backup duty IMO. The Cards paid him like a perennial 16-game starter.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
We have an interesting line in terms of style. Staley is not a power guy but Iupati and Davis are and were drafted for Singletary's smashmouth style. Goodwin is not a stout guy but is a wiley vet. No RG would seem to be a problem. So it will be interesting to see if there are some shakeups on the OLine this summer to try and develop a cohesive style of line play.

Very few people seem to care that our line is not consistent in their strengths. Staley may be the best pass blocker, but he has had back issues. Iupati has been consistent for a young guy and may be able to adapt to any style. Goodwin worries me as he can't hold up against big nose tackles or late blitzing.

It will be interesting to see if Davis moves to RG so that Boone can play every down. That would leave Kilgore to backup at either G or OC and Person to back up OT. Still a need for another lineman or two. The great SF teams of the 80s cross trained so that they could switch around and fill holes as they came up. Bobb was a master of using small guys to advantaqe but Harbaugh's WCO system is quite different...more power running.

Really nice post. I've been goofing around with the idea of shifting Davis to guard, too. But to borrow a baseball term, you'd be losing a lot of "value" in that move, if you know what I mean. Besides, Davis is coming into his own on the outside--even if it is seldom pretty to watch. The move you suggest would, however, make the composition of our line a lot more rational and allow Iupati to blow house-sized holes on his pulls and blast deep into the second level.

When I've goofed around with your suggestion I've backed away from it for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's pretty drastic--realistically, we're a good RG away from a pretty decent OL. Ideally, a better center would be great, but really it's just the RG that we really need. Second, I'd like to see Kilgore get his licks in at RG before we reshuffle our hodge podge OL--you're bang on correct about the philosophical inconsistency in its construction, by the way.

Finally, while I'm sure they're doing a fair amount of cross training, I hope they're doing it for the reason that McKittrick (Marine Corps, ret) did it, rather than doing it because it's something you "should" do.

LOL @ THE OLINE WAS ABOVE AVERAGE EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE GAMES. THAT'S LIKE SAYING OUR WR'S WERE ABOVE AVERAGE EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE GAMES.


a couple games is actually keywording for the WHOLE f**kING SEASON.

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Really nice post. I've been goofing around with the idea of shifting Davis to guard, too. But to borrow a baseball term, you'd be losing a lot of "value" in that move, if you know what I mean. Besides, Davis is coming into his own on the outside--even if it is seldom pretty to watch. The move you suggest would, however, make the composition of our line a lot more rational and allow Iupati to blow house-sized holes on his pulls and blast deep into the second level.

When I've goofed around with your suggestion I've backed away from it for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's pretty drastic--realistically, we're a good RG away from a pretty decent OL. Ideally, a better center would be great, but really it's just the RG that we really need. Second, I'd like to see Kilgore get his licks in at RG before we reshuffle our hodge podge OL--you're bang on correct about the philosophical inconsistency in its construction, by the way.

Finally, while I'm sure they're doing a fair amount of cross training, I hope they're doing it for the reason that McKittrick (Marine Corps, ret) did it, rather than doing it because it's something you "should" do.

LOL at the last bit! McKittrick was a tough old bird and he really taught the line to play with great passion. I see your points and believe you are probably correct that they will find a RG and the line will be improved. If Harbaugh sees some problems or believes Boone would be a better RT than Davis they may tinker. I really liked Kilgore's attitude and have hoped he would develop quickly. He would be a Bobb favorite!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
LOL at the last bit! McKittrick was a tough old bird and he really taught the line to play with great passion. I see your points and believe you are probably correct that they will find a RG and the line will be improved. If Harbaugh sees some problems or believes Boone would be a better RT than Davis they may tinker. I really liked Kilgore's attitude and have hoped he would develop quickly. He would be a Bobb favorite!

You couldn't be more right about McKittrick's enthusiasm for Kilgore. Frankly, we don't know much about him, but there seems to be a general consensus that he plays low, really quick, and is twice as brutal as he is big. That's right up the Old Man's alley. Speed is for the combines.

We'll see about the RT. Odds are, my (dull-minded) conservative take on the issue will win, the modern NFL isn't much into risk-taking, after all. That said, we've both been toying around with the idea for a reason: Our current OL is a complete hodgepodge of philosophies. And that's something that Uncle Bobb wouldn't tolerate. Frankly, I think he'd want to get the bulldozers on the inside in this offense--it's not ideal from the GM's chair, but it makes a lot of sense if you want to move the ball when it counts.

And that's something that we haven't been able to do, so it's worth thinking about.

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

If Fleener is taken ahead of us and the FO doesn't like the WR crop available when we pick in the 1st, Id really love for us to get Kevin Zeitler. He was a beast of a Guard for one of the best running attacks in the nation. Those Wisconsin boys know how to play Oline. Plus hes not just a big fat road grader, he can pull and move around and is an excellent pass blocker. He should be available after DeCastro and Glenn are picked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phahBI8uxKw

I kinda agree with this. Obviously DeCastro wont be there when we pick. But I find it hard to believe that both Wright and Hill will be gone. If that is the case, I kinda do believe we should pick Zeitler over Fleener, only because I believe that Fleener is a luxury type pick. We have Vernon as our number 1 and Delanie is more than serviceable as number 2, and in special teams.

The talent is there, 3 #1 draft choices. The right side caused most of the breakdowns. I watched Snyder closely and he was much better than Chilo but there were too many breakdowns. Some teams beat them one and one consistently. Looking on the bright side they should be more cohesive in 2012.