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Harbaugh and Baalke may have just realized something big.

Throwback, "getting separation" can be done by running better crisper routes, or frankly, just better athleticism. The thing we have not done for 8 yrs however, is to "coach around" that weakness, and scheme, if you will, by having the WRs or TEs looking for the ball the instant they leave the LOS. We could have done that so many times in alex's yrs here, that it makes me sick to think about it. JH will not miss that opportunity, and the Saints and Texans will see a different and faster paced passing game, admittedly with short passes, when they tee off on our QBs. JH learned his NFL lesson early on in game 1 in PS. He won't forget it either. From reading his quotes and listening to interviews, I honestly don't think he understood how feckless our OL was. Well he knows now and that info will get processed into each and every call he makes from here on. Remember how bad it was that with no OL , alex was supposed to drop back on 7 step drop, only to find two LBs and one DL in his facemask? I don't think we'll see that very often this yr.
Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Couple of things will need to happen for Tolzien to be at all effective on the Niners:

  • He'll have to learn to read non-vanilla defenses. I don't think he was really tested in the preseason games. And his Big Ten legacy isn't all that useful, since he wasn't going up against the kind of creative defensive minds he'll encounter in the NFL.
  • The Niners receivers need to get some separation from defenders. Doesn't do any good throwing to a spot if a defender is there first and looking for the ball... (this will determine how successful any of the QBs will be this season).

Agreed. But this applies to all rookie QBs.
Originally posted by bigmur49:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Thomas Clayton
Kory Sheets
Nate Davis

Scott Tolzien...COME ON DOWN!


Don't forget Shaun Hill


Cody Pickett, Gio carmazzi, Tim Rattay, Ken Dorsey, all NFL ready.
We still need a blocking TE for the line. Niners should sign Tony Moll who played at Sonoma Hi, Nevada, Green Bay and Ravens last year. He was a TE at Nevada then G/T in NFL. Has good hands but is a good blocker.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Throwback, "getting separation" can be done by running better crisper routes, or frankly, just better athleticism. The thing we have not done for 8 yrs however, is to "coach around" that weakness, and scheme, if you will, by having the WRs or TEs looking for the ball the instant they leave the LOS. We could have done that so many times in alex's yrs here, that it makes me sick to think about it. JH will not miss that opportunity, and the Saints and Texans will see a different and faster paced passing game, admittedly with short passes, when they tee off on our QBs. JH learned his NFL lesson early on in game 1 in PS. He won't forget it either. From reading his quotes and listening to interviews, I honestly don't think he understood how feckless our OL was. Well he knows now and that info will get processed into each and every call he makes from here on. Remember how bad it was that with no OL , alex was supposed to drop back on 7 step drop, only to find two LBs and one DL in his facemask? I don't think we'll see that very often this yr.

Well, I could have added:

  • The OL needs to learn how to zone block and then to play together.

But I'd have felt like a broken record, having said it so often elsewhere...

I think Tolzien is probably the least mobile of the QBs on the roster, and I'm more than a bit apprehensive about that...
[ Edited by 49erThrowback on Sep 5, 2011 at 9:56 AM ]
Originally posted by smashmouth51:
We still need a blocking TE for the line. Niners should sign Tony Moll who played at Sonoma Hi, Nevada, Green Bay and Ravens last year. He was a TE at Nevada then G/T in NFL. Has good hands but is a good blocker.

We're just going to use Boone as a TE in short yardage situations
Originally posted by 2cents:
After these four preseason games their 1st and 2nd string QBs have significant release issues that are not going to go away.
Alex and Colin have long slow wind ups that telegraph their throws. The quick release It's an underrated skill for sure. Cant imagine why but, JH may have overlooked the significance of that when drafting Kap. This is one skill Tolzen has in spades. He can fire it to a guy with bodies closing in on him. I cant tell you how huge that is. Those miliseconds make all the difference in the world in the nfl. Hate to say it but Tolzien looks waaay more ready to start and NFL game then Kap.

I have to totally agree with you on this, He has a super fast release, very much like Shawn Hill, but with a much stronger arm.
Walsh's actual philosophy was to draft or develop a quarterback every year. Look at Patriots, Green Bay, and Philadelphia.....they are all reaping the benefits of developing late round picks into hot commodities.

Unfortunately we had Mike Nolan and Mike "Dingleberry" as our head coaches. One of which said, "The Quarterback is no more valuable than any player on the team." (Guess who?)

But now Jim Harbaugh comes in and immediately changes that philosophy and say, "Of course the quarterback is the most valuable player on the team," but adds, "it's the most valuable position in all sports.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

I'm not sure if Tolzien is going to eventually beat out Kaep, but McCown or Culpper, Massoli, McBlt sure were not. He may even make the jump to 2nd string at some point this year. But right now he's behind in the playbook, the reps with the team, etc.

I'm glad Harbaugh is looking to the future, and I like that so many rookies made the team especially the undrafted ones like Tolzien, Dobbs, and Ian Williams because it shows that talent is what matters and not where you were picked.

And as far as how the team is going to do.......We are going to have our moments this year, Good and Bad......hopefully the Good outweighs the Bad and we can get some sort of rhythm with the offense which means 1) Alex needs to play good smart football 2) The Offensive line needs to hold its own 3) The recievers can show they can have timing with the QB in JH's West Coast Offense
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Walsh's actual philosophy was to draft or develop a quarterback every year. Look at Patriots, Green Bay, and Philadelphia.....they are all reaping the benefits of developing late round picks into hot commodities.

Unfortunately we had Mike Nolan and Mike "Dingleberry" as our head coaches. One of which said, "The Quarterback is no more valuable than any player on the team." (Guess who?)

But now Jim Harbaugh comes in and immediately changes that philosophy and say, "Of course the quarterback is the most valuable player on the team," but adds, "it's the most valuable position in all sports.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

I'm not sure if Tolzien is going to eventually beat out Kaep, but McCown or Culpper, Massoli, McBlt sure were not. He may even make the jump to 2nd string at some point this year. But right now he's behind in the playbook, the reps with the team, etc.

I'm glad Harbaugh is looking to the future, and I like that so many rookies made the team especially the undrafted ones like Tolzien, Dobbs, and Ian Williams because it shows that talent is what matters and not where you were picked.

And as far as how the team is going to do.......We are going to have our moments this year, Good and Bad......hopefully the Good outweighs the Bad and we can get some sort of rhythm with the offense which means 1) Alex needs to play good smart football 2) The Offensive line needs to hold its own 3) The recievers can show they can have timing with the QB in JH's West Coast Offense

Nice post.
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Walsh's actual philosophy was to draft or develop a quarterback every year. Look at Patriots, Green Bay, and Philadelphia.....they are all reaping the benefits of developing late round picks into hot commodities.

Unfortunately we had Mike Nolan and Mike "Dingleberry" as our head coaches. One of which said, "The Quarterback is no more valuable than any player on the team." (Guess who?)

But now Jim Harbaugh comes in and immediately changes that philosophy and say, "Of course the quarterback is the most valuable player on the team," but adds, "it's the most valuable position in all sports.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

I'm not sure if Tolzien is going to eventually beat out Kaep, but McCown or Culpper, Massoli, McBlt sure were not. He may even make the jump to 2nd string at some point this year. But right now he's behind in the playbook, the reps with the team, etc.

I'm glad Harbaugh is looking to the future, and I like that so many rookies made the team especially the undrafted ones like Tolzien, Dobbs, and Ian Williams because it shows that talent is what matters and not where you were picked.

And as far as how the team is going to do.......We are going to have our moments this year, Good and Bad......hopefully the Good outweighs the Bad and we can get some sort of rhythm with the offense which means 1) Alex needs to play good smart football 2) The Offensive line needs to hold its own 3) The recievers can show they can have timing with the QB in JH's West Coast Offense


Nice post.

Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Walsh's actual philosophy was to draft or develop a quarterback every year. Look at Patriots, Green Bay, and Philadelphia.....they are all reaping the benefits of developing late round picks into hot commodities.

Unfortunately we had Mike Nolan and Mike "Dingleberry" as our head coaches. One of which said, "The Quarterback is no more valuable than any player on the team." (Guess who?)

But now Jim Harbaugh comes in and immediately changes that philosophy and say, "Of course the quarterback is the most valuable player on the team," but adds, "it's the most valuable position in all sports.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

I'm not sure if Tolzien is going to eventually beat out Kaep, but McCown or Culpper, Massoli, McBlt sure were not. He may even make the jump to 2nd string at some point this year. But right now he's behind in the playbook, the reps with the team, etc.

I'm glad Harbaugh is looking to the future, and I like that so many rookies made the team especially the undrafted ones like Tolzien, Dobbs, and Ian Williams because it shows that talent is what matters and not where you were picked.

And as far as how the team is going to do.......We are going to have our moments this year, Good and Bad......hopefully the Good outweighs the Bad and we can get some sort of rhythm with the offense which means 1) Alex needs to play good smart football 2) The Offensive line needs to hold its own 3) The recievers can show they can have timing with the QB in JH's West Coast Offense

What's funny is the guys who didn't value QB very high are the ones who took part in drafting a QB #1.
First, Kaep does have a problem with his windup, but his release is not the problem, he has a very quick release this was debated and scruntinized. His problem is learning to read NFL defenses and learning how to put a touch on his passes. In his two intercepts, one he should have bulleted the ball and not float it over and the other was the opposite.

Tolzien, remember he is further along because he played in a west coast offense at Wisconsin and was coached by the niner's current QB coach's brother at the Badgers team. Tolzien may be further along because of this and may well turn into Brady with JH's guidance, but he also have limited potential for growth too, only time will tell. Kaep has more potential, but that is all it is at this point. I think it is good that they went this route of two younger ones rather than an old vet who has no more potential than he has already shown. Besides JH wanted to sign him as a UDFA, but lost out to the Chargers, how ironic. I was one of those that didn't mind spending one of our 7th rounders on Tolzien or the QB from Iowa. QB is one of the hardest to find and getting more talent is just good odds making.

Like a friend used to say when we went night clubbing back in the days one out of the ten going say yes, just gotta find ten to do so-haha!
Originally posted by 2cents:
After these four preseason games their 1st and 2nd string QBs have significant release issues that are not going to go away.
Alex and Colin have long slow wind ups that telegraph their throws. The quick release It's an underrated skill for sure. Cant imagine why but, JH may have overlooked the significance of that when drafting Kap. This is one skill Tolzen has in spades. He can fire it to a guy with bodies closing in on him. I cant tell you how huge that is. Those miliseconds make all the difference in the world in the nfl. Hate to say it but Tolzien looks waaay more ready to start and NFL game then Kap.

I think Tolzien is actually more game-ready than Kaepernick because he played in a similar, pro-style system in college. Kaepernick, however, has way more potential and, if developed properly, will probably be the better QB when it's all said and done. Tolzien might be more game-ready than another rookie, but he's still a rookie and is far from actually being game-ready, if that makes sense.
Originally posted by WildBill:
First, Kaep does have a problem with his windup, but his release is not the problem, he has a very quick release this was debated and scruntinized. His problem is learning to read NFL defenses and learning how to put a touch on his passes. In his two intercepts, one he should have bulleted the ball and not float it over and the other was the opposite.

Tolzien, remember he is further along because he played in a west coast offense at Wisconsin and was coached by the niner's current QB coach's brother at the Badgers team. Tolzien may be further along because of this and may well turn into Brady with JH's guidance, but he also have limited potential for growth too, only time will tell. Kaep has more potential, but that is all it is at this point. I think it is good that they went this route of two younger ones rather than an old vet who has no more potential than he has already shown. Besides JH wanted to sign him as a UDFA, but lost out to the Chargers, how ironic. I was one of those that didn't mind spending one of our 7th rounders on Tolzien or the QB from Iowa. QB is one of the hardest to find and getting more talent is just good odds making.

Like a friend used to say when we went night clubbing back in the days one out of the ten going say yes, just gotta find ten to do so-haha!
To add, Kaep is a cerebral player. He's not going to be a player who thinks he can succeed on his ability alone. He will be fine. He already shortened his wind-up from what it was in college. He just needs to realize how important the timing of throws are and how much greater the range of NFL defenders is compared to the league he played in college.

He'll figure it out.

Tolzien: I like. He could scare Kaep and further delay Kaep's starting pathway in terms of time.
Originally posted by King49er:
I love how everybody think that we're not completely f**ked this year with the QB's that we have on our roster...I'm not joking, I'll be surprised if we can even finish 3rd this year in the division..

3rd in the NFC west....good cause the record is gonna be 10-6