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the eating crow for FA

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

Goldson is back now, so that helps..and Whitner can be a playmaking SS in an aggressive scheme. Aldon Smith should be a much better version of Manny than Manny ever was, and Rogers (though not a turnover machine by any stretch) is a much better man-coverage guy than Clements, which should help the entire secondary.

All that said, I'm not sure about "better," but Fangio will likely be more aggressive (and maybe even more creative, utilizing his safeties and both ILBs more often) with his blitz/coverage packages than Manusky was (IMO, Sing was a cautious head coach by nature and that impacted what Manusky could do on defense).

But the bottom line is, a defense is only as good as their personnel, and the net-net quality of our defensive personnel is about the same as it was last year. So I don't see us being dramatically better or worse than last year.

Ya, I'm happy to see Goldson back for that price.

I still think we're operating at a net loss in terms of defensive talent, with Franklin & Spikes leaving in favor of Sopoaga & Bowman. Whitner is certainly an upgrade over last year though, I'm still pretty stoked about that signing.

I think our D hinges on Aldon, RJF, & Bowman. We need them each to be about a year ahead of schedule in order for us to be a successful defense, IMO.
  • AmpLee
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

Goldson is back now, so that helps..and Whitner can be a playmaking SS in an aggressive scheme. Aldon Smith should be a much better version of Manny than Manny ever was, and Rogers (though not a turnover machine by any stretch) is a much better man-coverage guy than Clements, which should help the entire secondary.

All that said, I'm not sure about "better," but Fangio will likely be more aggressive (and maybe even more creative, utilizing his safeties and both ILBs more often) with his blitz/coverage packages than Manusky was (IMO, Sing was a cautious head coach by nature and that impacted what Manusky could do on defense).

But the bottom line is, a defense is only as good as their personnel, and the net-net quality of our defensive personnel is about the same as it was last year. So I don't see us being dramatically better or worse than last year.

Ya, I'm happy to see Goldson back for that price.

I still think we're operating at a net loss in terms of defensive talent, with Franklin & Spikes leaving in favor of Sopoaga & Bowman. Whitner is certainly an upgrade over last year though, I'm still pretty stoked about that signing.

I think our D hinges on Aldon, RJF, & Bowman. We need them each to be about a year ahead of schedule in order for us to be a successful defense, IMO.

Hopefully our offensive improvement in personnel and coaching will keep the defense off the field more.
  • WWFGD
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by goodthings19:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The calls for crow eating are kind of strange. I think Baalke did an excellent job of working the finances of this FA period (no one got more guaranteed money than they deserved), but I don't think we're a more talented team than we were at the beginning of FA either.

We went from a very poor FA period in the first few days to an average one. I don't think that's cause for gloating OR skewering the FO.

I am going to have to disagree with you. There seems to be a fair amount of this belief that all we did in free agency was maintain the status quo......Wrong

I believe that guys like Edwards, Rogers and Goodwin will provide us with a considerable upgrade at their respective positions. Losing Franklin is not a huge deal. Sopoaga will do just fine in his place. Aldon Smith holds enough promise that losing Lawson shouldn't be a factor either. I feel as though we did great considering that we did not have to overpay for a guy like Joseph or Asomgha and thus not be able to resign some of our own talent later on down the road when we are in a legitimate position to make a super bowl run.

Free agency this year was a success in my opinion and we definetly have reason to gloat. Go niners.

I disagree that Rogers or Goodwin represent considerable upgrades over Clements and Baas. I think that adding Edwards is significant, but so is losing Franklin and not replacing him. He's a very good NT, and the perception that he isn't that seemed to directly coincide with when he signed elsewhere. Had he re-signed, he'd still be considered a good player around here, IMO. Sopoaga at NT in a 3-4 is a downgrade, no question about it. We also lost Spikes and didn't replace him either.

We're not a more talented team. I'm just hoping that the coaching, especially on the offensive side of the ball, will be so superior to last year that we'll see significant improvement just based on that.

I agree with Goodthings19,

We definitely have gained a net worth in talent. These are my opinions:

Rogers is definitely an upgrade. Yes, I have heard he has bad hands. Ok. But it is not like Clements was tearing up the league in interception totals. Rogers will play press coverage more solid than Clements. Clements cost MILLIONS more than Rogers so big upgrade and value in terms of salary cap.

Manny Lawson was solid in the run and pass coverage. But frankly he was a huge fail during his tenure with the 49ers because he could not get to the QB. That was his job. If Aldon Smith can put up the pressure like reports are saying than no love lost with Lawson.

Aubrayo Franklin was good. Damn good. Sopoaga will be serviceable in this position and it will be interesting to see how he does. We all know he is strong enough.

Baas will not be missed. Frankly he was fighting for a position on the line before Heitmann was injured. He is NOT worth top 5 money. Goodwin is an ex pro bowler. He worked with Drew Brees. He is a huge value and will be a leader on the line.

Braylon Edwards? $1 million bucks. That is free basically and he steps in immediately as a true number 1.

Donte Whitner is already showing to be a vocal leader on the defense. He had 140 tackles last year for the lost boys of Buffalo. I wouldn't be surprised if he is our best pick up in FA. I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the best pick ups for the entire league in FA...time will tell. Being on a better team will only allow him to shine more.

Goldson...we know what we are getting. He has lapses at time but he can hit and he can cause turnovers. Great value signing for a guy looking for 8 mil a year.

All in all Trent Baalke straight up pissed on all the haters. Many of the fans on this board were upset in the beginning and there is no problem with that. Some people are just more patient than others. Now it all comes down to how they play on the field and I thinks we will be making some noise.
Originally posted by WWFGD:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by goodthings19:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The calls for crow eating are kind of strange. I think Baalke did an excellent job of working the finances of this FA period (no one got more guaranteed money than they deserved), but I don't think we're a more talented team than we were at the beginning of FA either.

We went from a very poor FA period in the first few days to an average one. I don't think that's cause for gloating OR skewering the FO.

I am going to have to disagree with you. There seems to be a fair amount of this belief that all we did in free agency was maintain the status quo......Wrong

I believe that guys like Edwards, Rogers and Goodwin will provide us with a considerable upgrade at their respective positions. Losing Franklin is not a huge deal. Sopoaga will do just fine in his place. Aldon Smith holds enough promise that losing Lawson shouldn't be a factor either. I feel as though we did great considering that we did not have to overpay for a guy like Joseph or Asomgha and thus not be able to resign some of our own talent later on down the road when we are in a legitimate position to make a super bowl run.

Free agency this year was a success in my opinion and we definetly have reason to gloat. Go niners.

I disagree that Rogers or Goodwin represent considerable upgrades over Clements and Baas. I think that adding Edwards is significant, but so is losing Franklin and not replacing him. He's a very good NT, and the perception that he isn't that seemed to directly coincide with when he signed elsewhere. Had he re-signed, he'd still be considered a good player around here, IMO. Sopoaga at NT in a 3-4 is a downgrade, no question about it. We also lost Spikes and didn't replace him either.

We're not a more talented team. I'm just hoping that the coaching, especially on the offensive side of the ball, will be so superior to last year that we'll see significant improvement just based on that.

I agree with Goodthings19,

We definitely have gained a net worth in talent. These are my opinions:

Rogers is definitely an upgrade. Yes, I have heard he has bad hands. Ok. But it is not like Clements was tearing up the league in interception totals. Rogers will play press coverage more solid than Clements. Clements cost MILLIONS more than Rogers so big upgrade and value in terms of salary cap.

Manny Lawson was solid in the run and pass coverage. But frankly he was a huge fail during his tenure with the 49ers because he could not get to the QB. That was his job. If Aldon Smith can put up the pressure like reports are saying than no love lost with Lawson.

Aubrayo Franklin was good. Damn good. Sopoaga will be serviceable in this position and it will be interesting to see how he does. We all know he is strong enough.

Baas will not be missed. Frankly he was fighting for a position on the line before Heitmann was injured. He is NOT worth top 5 money. Goodwin is an ex pro bowler. He worked with Drew Brees. He is a huge value and will be a leader on the line.

Braylon Edwards? $1 million bucks. That is free basically and he steps in immediately as a true number 1.

Donte Whitner is already showing to be a vocal leader on the defense. He had 140 tackles last year for the lost boys of Buffalo. I wouldn't be surprised if he is our best pick up in FA. I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the best pick ups for the entire league in FA...time will tell. Being on a better team will only allow him to shine more.

Goldson...we know what we are getting. He has lapses at time but he can hit and he can cause turnovers. Great value signing for a guy looking for 8 mil a year.

All in all Trent Baalke straight up pissed on all the haters. Many of the fans on this board were upset in the beginning and there is no problem with that. Some people are just more patient than others. Now it all comes down to how they play on the field and I thinks we will be making some noise.

NICE I'm happy with how trent has actually done. Franklin seems to have been really the only area we didn't upgrade on defense! We are loaded at saftey, Let the best man start! Maybe the actually do have a plan. Hopefully some of these guys work out, and we resign them next year. This way we can focus on drafting some Youth along the Dline!
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,056
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The calls for crow eating are kind of strange. I think Baalke did an excellent job of working the finances of this FA period (no one got more guaranteed money than they deserved), but I don't think we're a more talented team than we were at the beginning of FA either.

We went from a very poor FA period in the first few days to an average one. I don't think that's cause for gloating OR skewering the FO.

You're absolutely right, we didn't drastically improve at all. If anything, we lost continuity on defense for the sake of saving some dollars.

you're looking for a quick fix and that's not what they are trying to do. it's a process that will take time. if we had overpaid for 2-3 free agents you would have b***hed and moaned how the front office still doesn't know what they're doing.

Haven't we heard all this before? The defense wasn't the problem, Nate could have reworked his contract and Spikes and Franklin would have came cheap. We weren't that far off on defense, hell, we were in the top 10 at one point of the season last year. A FA here and there would have improved that defense immensely.

The biggest problem in the FO is that they just couldn't let #11 go, now that's where we could have improved in a huge way. I mean really, aren't you a little concerned that #11 is tearing up the secondary during TC? Alex Smith, really? It's not like Harbaugh can change Alex in one week.
This is where your preconceptions are hurting your objectivity.

The main reason that Singletary was fired, and Mike Nolan before him, and Jim Hostler and Jimmy Raye, et al., was because they had no idea how to design an offense or how to use a QB in today's NFL where ALL the rules are slanted to give the passing game success. Under the Nolan/Sing regime they had no idea how pass patterns were to be run, or pass block, much less how to design and sequence plays. As a result, the offense stunk.

Now Harbaugh comes in with a modern day offense and the QB that a lot of people hated is now doing well. That should not have surprised very many people who really study offensive football. Yes, Harbaugh CAN change Alex in a week. All he has to do is give him something decent to work with, and that is what is being reported from TC.

My prediction for a long time has been that Smith would prove his critics wrong if ever he got a coach that could utilize the talent on the roster. Let's watch and see.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The calls for crow eating are kind of strange. I think Baalke did an excellent job of working the finances of this FA period (no one got more guaranteed money than they deserved), but I don't think we're a more talented team than we were at the beginning of FA either.

We went from a very poor FA period in the first few days to an average one. I don't think that's cause for gloating OR skewering the FO.

You're absolutely right, we didn't drastically improve at all. If anything, we lost continuity on defense for the sake of saving some dollars.

you're looking for a quick fix and that's not what they are trying to do. it's a process that will take time. if we had overpaid for 2-3 free agents you would have b***hed and moaned how the front office still doesn't know what they're doing.

Haven't we heard all this before? The defense wasn't the problem, Nate could have reworked his contract and Spikes and Franklin would have came cheap. We weren't that far off on defense, hell, we were in the top 10 at one point of the season last year. A FA here and there would have improved that defense immensely.

The biggest problem in the FO is that they just couldn't let #11 go, now that's where we could have improved in a huge way. I mean really, aren't you a little concerned that #11 is tearing up the secondary during TC? Alex Smith, really? It's not like Harbaugh can change Alex in one week.
This is where your preconceptions are hurting your objectivity.

The main reason that Singletary was fired, and Mike Nolan before him, and Jim Hostler and Jimmy Raye, et al., was because they had no idea how to design an offense or how to use a QB in today's NFL where ALL the rules are slanted to give the passing game success. Under the Nolan/Sing regime they had no idea how pass patterns were to be run, or pass block, much less how to design and sequence plays. As a result, the offense stunk.

Now Harbaugh comes in with a modern day offense and the QB that a lot of people hated is now doing well. That should not have surprised very many people who really study offensive football. Yes, Harbaugh CAN change Alex in a week. All he has to do is give him something decent to work with, and that is what is being reported from TC.

My prediction for a long time has been that Smith would prove his critics wrong if ever he got a coach that could utilize the talent on the roster. Let's watch and see.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

Goldson is back now, so that helps..and Whitner can be a playmaking SS in an aggressive scheme. Aldon Smith should be a much better version of Manny than Manny ever was, and Rogers (though not a turnover machine by any stretch) is a much better man-coverage guy than Clements, which should help the entire secondary.

All that said, I'm not sure about "better," but Fangio will likely be more aggressive (and maybe even more creative, utilizing his safeties and both ILBs more often) with his blitz/coverage packages than Manusky was (IMO, Sing was a cautious head coach by nature and that impacted what Manusky could do on defense).

But the bottom line is, a defense is only as good as their personnel, and the net-net quality of our defensive personnel is about the same as it was last year. So I don't see us being dramatically better or worse than last year.

Ya, I'm happy to see Goldson back for that price.

I still think we're operating at a net loss in terms of defensive talent, with Franklin & Spikes leaving in favor of Sopoaga & Bowman. Whitner is certainly an upgrade over last year though, I'm still pretty stoked about that signing.

I think our D hinges on Aldon, RJF, & Bowman. We need them each to be about a year ahead of schedule in order for us to be a successful defense, IMO.

Just a thought....

I wonder if Willis will actually be a better player without Spikes than he was with him. My thinking is this: Spikes is the epitome of an alpha male, the kind of guy who takes the reigns and becomes the unquestioned, unchallenged leader of the group. In that situation, Willis by nature would let Spikes run the show in the middle, leaving him (Pat) to roam and make plays.

Though that's a good thing (Pat roaming and making plays), it's also human nature to not be at your ultimate/peak when you're in a subservient role. The greatest ILBs were also the unquestioned leaders of their defense, because it comes with the territory. Their minds have to be completely and totally focused on everything that's happening in front of them, making calls for their front seven, getting everyone in place and making sure they recognized EVERYTHING that was happening (while the other guys have more narrow responsibilities).

It's that total focus, unquestioned, unchallenged leadership role that they HAD to play that allowed these great MLB/ILBs (Butkis, Lambert, Singletary, Lewis, etc.) to flourish. Pat didn't have to be THAT guy when Spikes was here...now he has no choice, and I think that's exactly what he needs to take his game to an even greater level.

Like I said, it's just a thought...
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Aug 8, 2011 at 10:43 AM ]
Mike Nolan and Singletary has the same philosophy with the offense. That is they try to protect their defense with the offense. Go with what have been working, risk free, mistake free, simple offense. You can be competitive with that type of offense, but can't win with it. At the same time, the defense that they treasured so much to protect wasn't all that good. Hence the turnover in FA we are witnessing from of the defense by Harbaugh and Co.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

Goldson is back now, so that helps..and Whitner can be a playmaking SS in an aggressive scheme. Aldon Smith should be a much better version of Manny than Manny ever was, and Rogers (though not a turnover machine by any stretch) is a much better man-coverage guy than Clements, which should help the entire secondary.

All that said, I'm not sure about "better," but Fangio will likely be more aggressive (and maybe even more creative, utilizing his safeties and both ILBs more often) with his blitz/coverage packages than Manusky was (IMO, Sing was a cautious head coach by nature and that impacted what Manusky could do on defense).

But the bottom line is, a defense is only as good as their personnel, and the net-net quality of our defensive personnel is about the same as it was last year. So I don't see us being dramatically better or worse than last year.

Ya, I'm happy to see Goldson back for that price.

I still think we're operating at a net loss in terms of defensive talent, with Franklin & Spikes leaving in favor of Sopoaga & Bowman. Whitner is certainly an upgrade over last year though, I'm still pretty stoked about that signing.

I think our D hinges on Aldon, RJF, & Bowman. We need them each to be about a year ahead of schedule in order for us to be a successful defense, IMO.

Just a thought....

I wonder if Willis will actually be a better player without Spikes than he was with him. My thinking is this: Spikes is the epitome of an alpha male, the kind of guy who takes the reigns and becomes the unquestioned, unchallenged leader of the group. In that situation, Willis by nature would let Spikes run the show in the middle, leaving him (Pat) to roam and make plays.

Though that's a good thing (Pat roaming and making plays), it's also human nature to not be at your ultimate/peak when you're in a subservient role. The greatest ILBs were also the unquestioned leaders of their defense, because it comes with the territory. Their minds have to be completely and totally focused on everything that's happening in front of them, making calls for their front seven, getting everyone in place and making sure they recognized EVERYTHING that was happening (while the other guys have more narrow responsibilities).

It's that total focus, unquestioned, unchallenged leadership role that they HAD to play that allowed these great MLB/ILBs (Butkis, Lambert, Singletary, Lewis, etc.) to flourish. Pat didn't have to be THAT guy when Spikes was here...now he has no choice, and I think that's exactly what he needs to take his game to an even greater level.

Like I said, it's just a thought...

that's a very interesting point. Spikes is a "vocal leader" and Willis, by his own account, is a "leader by example." While his play wasn't overshadowed by Spikes, his "alpha male" role might have been. I mean, its all speculation, but if the "vocal leader" player moves from the ILB to the S position (from Spikes to Whitner), then that might open up a different kind of role for Willis to occupy in terms of that front 7. Who knows. But I do think playing alongside Bowman instead of Spikes means that Willis is going to have to play differently; whether that means he is playing more aggressively at the LOS or whether that means he has to hang back and play clean up really depends on how well Bowman settles in.
I will have seconds if we grab a solid NT (Pat Williams)

But I gotta crack up how I got flamed for suggesting the F.O offer some 1 year contracts and was told "NOBODY WILL ACCEPT A ONE YEAR DEAL"...and then Baalke grabbed Edwards and Rogers and re-signs Goldson to one year deals...Thank you Baalke
  • dj43
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  • Posts: 21,056
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
I will have seconds if we grab a solid NT (Pat Williams)

But I gotta crack up how I got flamed for suggesting the F.O offer some 1 year contracts and was told "NOBODY WILL ACCEPT A ONE YEAR DEAL"...and then Baalke grabbed Edwards and Rogers and re-signs Goldson to one year deals...Thank you Baalke
There are a number of reasons so many players signed one year deals but one of them is there is a good deal of uncertainty about how the new CBA will play out in terms of future salary numbers. Things may get better or the may get worse so a number of players took one year deals to see how things go with the hope they can bump the number.

In other cases like Lawson who took a lesser deal because he thinks he can put up better numbers in a 4-3 than a 3-4, the player wants a short-term deal to prove a bigger number in the future.

In the case of the 49ers who have a lot of players that may prove much better with better coaching, a one year deal makes sense for the team because if the player does poorly the team isn't stuck with a big contract. Of course there is the other side of that coin as well.
The only crow i want to be eating is on Thanksgiving day in Bmore.
Originally posted by brizznasty:
The only crow i want to be eating is on Thanksgiving day in Bmore.

i'm going to eat turkey while we play the Ravens.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

Goldson is back now, so that helps..and Whitner can be a playmaking SS in an aggressive scheme. Aldon Smith should be a much better version of Manny than Manny ever was, and Rogers (though not a turnover machine by any stretch) is a much better man-coverage guy than Clements, which should help the entire secondary.

All that said, I'm not sure about "better," but Fangio will likely be more aggressive (and maybe even more creative, utilizing his safeties and both ILBs more often) with his blitz/coverage packages than Manusky was (IMO, Sing was a cautious head coach by nature and that impacted what Manusky could do on defense).

But the bottom line is, a defense is only as good as their personnel, and the net-net quality of our defensive personnel is about the same as it was last year. So I don't see us being dramatically better or worse than last year.

Ya, I'm happy to see Goldson back for that price.

I still think we're operating at a net loss in terms of defensive talent, with Franklin & Spikes leaving in favor of Sopoaga & Bowman. Whitner is certainly an upgrade over last year though, I'm still pretty stoked about that signing.

I think our D hinges on Aldon, RJF, & Bowman. We need them each to be about a year ahead of schedule in order for us to be a successful defense, IMO.

Just a thought....

I wonder if Willis will actually be a better player without Spikes than he was with him. My thinking is this: Spikes is the epitome of an alpha male, the kind of guy who takes the reigns and becomes the unquestioned, unchallenged leader of the group. In that situation, Willis by nature would let Spikes run the show in the middle, leaving him (Pat) to roam and make plays.

Though that's a good thing (Pat roaming and making plays), it's also human nature to not be at your ultimate/peak when you're in a subservient role. The greatest ILBs were also the unquestioned leaders of their defense, because it comes with the territory. Their minds have to be completely and totally focused on everything that's happening in front of them, making calls for their front seven, getting everyone in place and making sure they recognized EVERYTHING that was happening (while the other guys have more narrow responsibilities).

It's that total focus, unquestioned, unchallenged leadership role that they HAD to play that allowed these great MLB/ILBs (Butkis, Lambert, Singletary, Lewis, etc.) to flourish. Pat didn't have to be THAT guy when Spikes was here...now he has no choice, and I think that's exactly what he needs to take his game to an even greater level.

Like I said, it's just a thought...

that's a very interesting point. Spikes is a "vocal leader" and Willis, by his own account, is a "leader by example." While his play wasn't overshadowed by Spikes, his "alpha male" role might have been. I mean, its all speculation, but if the "vocal leader" player moves from the ILB to the S position (from Spikes to Whitner), then that might open up a different kind of role for Willis to occupy in terms of that front 7. Who knows. But I do think playing alongside Bowman instead of Spikes means that Willis is going to have to play differently; whether that means he is playing more aggressively at the LOS or whether that means he has to hang back and play clean up really depends on how well Bowman settles in.

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Originally posted by WWFGD:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by goodthings19:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The calls for crow eating are kind of strange. I think Baalke did an excellent job of working the finances of this FA period (no one got more guaranteed money than they deserved), but I don't think we're a more talented team than we were at the beginning of FA either.

We went from a very poor FA period in the first few days to an average one. I don't think that's cause for gloating OR skewering the FO.

I am going to have to disagree with you. There seems to be a fair amount of this belief that all we did in free agency was maintain the status quo......Wrong

I believe that guys like Edwards, Rogers and Goodwin will provide us with a considerable upgrade at their respective positions. Losing Franklin is not a huge deal. Sopoaga will do just fine in his place. Aldon Smith holds enough promise that losing Lawson shouldn't be a factor either. I feel as though we did great considering that we did not have to overpay for a guy like Joseph or Asomgha and thus not be able to resign some of our own talent later on down the road when we are in a legitimate position to make a super bowl run.

Free agency this year was a success in my opinion and we definetly have reason to gloat. Go niners.

I disagree that Rogers or Goodwin represent considerable upgrades over Clements and Baas. I think that adding Edwards is significant, but so is losing Franklin and not replacing him. He's a very good NT, and the perception that he isn't that seemed to directly coincide with when he signed elsewhere. Had he re-signed, he'd still be considered a good player around here, IMO. Sopoaga at NT in a 3-4 is a downgrade, no question about it. We also lost Spikes and didn't replace him either.

We're not a more talented team. I'm just hoping that the coaching, especially on the offensive side of the ball, will be so superior to last year that we'll see significant improvement just based on that.

I agree with Goodthings19,

We definitely have gained a net worth in talent. These are my opinions:

Rogers is definitely an upgrade. Yes, I have heard he has bad hands. Ok. But it is not like Clements was tearing up the league in interception totals. Rogers will play press coverage more solid than Clements. Clements cost MILLIONS more than Rogers so big upgrade and value in terms of salary cap.

Manny Lawson was solid in the run and pass coverage. But frankly he was a huge fail during his tenure with the 49ers because he could not get to the QB. That was his job. If Aldon Smith can put up the pressure like reports are saying than no love lost with Lawson.

Aubrayo Franklin was good. Damn good. Sopoaga will be serviceable in this position and it will be interesting to see how he does. We all know he is strong enough.

Baas will not be missed. Frankly he was fighting for a position on the line before Heitmann was injured. He is NOT worth top 5 money. Goodwin is an ex pro bowler. He worked with Drew Brees. He is a huge value and will be a leader on the line.

Braylon Edwards? $1 million bucks. That is free basically and he steps in immediately as a true number 1.

Donte Whitner is already showing to be a vocal leader on the defense. He had 140 tackles last year for the lost boys of Buffalo. I wouldn't be surprised if he is our best pick up in FA. I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the best pick ups for the entire league in FA...time will tell. Being on a better team will only allow him to shine more.

Goldson...we know what we are getting. He has lapses at time but he can hit and he can cause turnovers. Great value signing for a guy looking for 8 mil a year.

All in all Trent Baalke straight up pissed on all the haters. Many of the fans on this board were upset in the beginning and there is no problem with that. Some people are just more patient than others. Now it all comes down to how they play on the field and I thinks we will be making some noise.

NICE I'm happy with how trent has actually done. Franklin seems to have been really the only area we didn't upgrade on defense! We are loaded at saftey, Let the best man start! Maybe the actually do have a plan. Hopefully some of these guys work out, and we resign them next year. This way we can focus on drafting some Youth along the Dline!

NT should actually be pretty solid, we are not sure what we will get with Soap as a 1 gap NT, but having RJF and I. Williams as reserves help. The 9ers have no depth at DE in the base 3-4. Do they even have a back up on the roster? I am hoping that they sign a vet to a 1 yr contract to be a reserve.