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the eating crow for FA

Originally posted by goodthings19:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The calls for crow eating are kind of strange. I think Baalke did an excellent job of working the finances of this FA period (no one got more guaranteed money than they deserved), but I don't think we're a more talented team than we were at the beginning of FA either.

We went from a very poor FA period in the first few days to an average one. I don't think that's cause for gloating OR skewering the FO.

I am going to have to disagree with you. There seems to be a fair amount of this belief that all we did in free agency was maintain the status quo......Wrong

I believe that guys like Edwards, Rogers and Goodwin will provide us with a considerable upgrade at their respective positions. Losing Franklin is not a huge deal. Sopoaga will do just fine in his place. Aldon Smith holds enough promise that losing Lawson shouldn't be a factor either. I feel as though we did great considering that we did not have to overpay for a guy like Joseph or Asomgha and thus not be able to resign some of our own talent later on down the road when we are in a legitimate position to make a super bowl run.

Free agency this year was a success in my opinion and we definetly have reason to gloat. Go niners.

I also love the fact that we got guys that come from winning teams! Being a probowl center in the Superbowl will go a long way in some of the tougher games. The same thing can be said for Edwards coming from NY. As good as a player like V.Davis is, he hasn't been on the winning end of big games yet. Our team has failed when it's need to win the most the last couple of years.
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

You clearly don't get it. Every new coach that enters Ninersland, head coach or position, is better than the coach before. It has been that way since 2003, at least. Each one is guaranteed to make players run faster, jump higher, flip their hips easier. Don't you know that they are going to "coach them up."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. We have been down this road so many times that I am a bit skeptical of any magic elixir that a coach possesses. Been suckered one too many times.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

You clearly don't get it. Every new coach that enters Ninersland, head coach or position, is better than the coach before. It has been that way since 2003, at least. Each one is guaranteed to make players run faster, jump higher, flip their hips easier. Don't you know that they are going to "coach them up."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. We have been down this road so many times that I am a bit skeptical of any magic elixir that a coach possesses. Been suckered one too many times.

While I am unsure about Fangio and his track record. Would you agree that Harbaugh is an upgrade to Erickson, Nolan, and Sing? Are you simply applying this comment to Fangio and the defense?
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

You clearly don't get it. Every new coach that enters Ninersland, head coach or position, is better than the coach before. It has been that way since 2003, at least. Each one is guaranteed to make players run faster, jump higher, flip their hips easier. Don't you know that they are going to "coach them up."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. We have been down this road so many times that I am a bit skeptical of any magic elixir that a coach possesses. Been suckered one too many times.

While I am unsure about Fangio and his track record. Would you agree that Harbaugh is an upgrade to Erickson, Nolan, and Sing? Are you simply applying this comment to Fangio and the defense?

I like Harbaugh a lot, and think he has a great chance to make an impact. Neither Nolan, nor Singletary, had any head coaching experience, so they were great gambles. Harbaugh has head coaching experience, and was successful. At the same time, this is the NFL, not college, so it is not an automatic that he can translate college success to the pros.

As for coordinators and position coaches, I am more skeptical.

P.S. I just like making fun of all these overly optimistic comments, like, "Fangio will coach him up", as if other coaches in the past were sitting back eating potato chips on a couch, completely clueless on how to coach.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Aug 8, 2011 at 8:14 AM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

You clearly don't get it. Every new coach that enters Ninersland, head coach or position, is better than the coach before. It has been that way since 2003, at least. Each one is guaranteed to make players run faster, jump higher, flip their hips easier. Don't you know that they are going to "coach them up."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. We have been down this road so many times that I am a bit skeptical of any magic elixir that a coach possesses. Been suckered one too many times.

While I am unsure about Fangio and his track record. Would you agree that Harbaugh is an upgrade to Erickson, Nolan, and Sing? Are you simply applying this comment to Fangio and the defense?

I like Harbaugh a lot, and think he has a great chance to make an impact. Neither Nolan, nor Singletary, had any head coaching experience, so they were great gambles. Harbaugh has head coaching experience, and was successful. At the same time, this is the NFL, not college, so it is not an automatic that he can translate college success to the pros.

As for coordinators and position coaches, I am more skeptical.

P.S. I just like making fun of all these overly optimistic comments, like, "Fangio will coach him up", as if other coaches in the past were sitting back eating potato chips on a couch, completely clueless on how to coach.


Obviously time will tell, but on paper this coaching staff looks to be miles ahead of Singletary's staff. As we saw with the Jimmy Raye hire, Singletary had a difficult time drawing legitimate interest from top coaches and coordinators.

In particular I think the Donatell and Seely hires were extremely fortunate due to the transitions taking place in Denver and Cleveland respectively. They were available and decided to come work under Harbaugh . . . which is a reflection on Harbaugh.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by MadDog49er:


P.S. I just like making fun of all these overly optimistic comments, like, "Fangio will coach him up", as if other coaches in the past were sitting back eating potato chips on a couch, completely clueless on how to coach.

So... you admit you're being a troll?
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:


P.S. I just like making fun of all these overly optimistic comments, like, "Fangio will coach him up", as if other coaches in the past were sitting back eating potato chips on a couch, completely clueless on how to coach.

So... you admit you're being a troll?

Personally, I enjoy MadDogs sarcasm. The optimism on this board makes me cringe sometimes. After 10 years of suck I refuse to get too excited until I see a good QB, good in-game coaching and WINS.!!
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by NorthNiner:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:


P.S. I just like making fun of all these overly optimistic comments, like, "Fangio will coach him up", as if other coaches in the past were sitting back eating potato chips on a couch, completely clueless on how to coach.

So... you admit you're being a troll?

Personally, I enjoy MadDogs sarcasm. The optimism on this board makes me cringe sometimes. After 10 years of suck I refuse to get too excited until I see a good QB, good in-game coaching and WINS.!!

I know... I was joking.

It's good to have differing opinions on the forum. MD is just being extreme with his, which is ok because some people might benefit from a reality check.

Anyway, if MD is a troll, at least he's an intelligent one. Certainly good enough not to get banned.
  • rum53
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 762
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
P.S. I just like making fun of all these overly optimistic comments, like, "Fangio will coach him up", as if other coaches in the past were sitting back eating potato chips on a couch, completely clueless on how to coach.

Good coaches don't "coach up players". However, they do assess the players strengths and weaknesses to figure out how to put the player in a position to succeed while protecting their weaknesses.

A great example of this is Belichick and Tully Banta-Cain. TBC had success playing for the Patriots and then went to the 49ers where he disappointed. After returning to the Patriots, TBC performed better than when on the niners.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

Goldson is back now, so that helps..and Whitner can be a playmaking SS in an aggressive scheme. Aldon Smith should be a much better version of Manny than Manny ever was, and Rogers (though not a turnover machine by any stretch) is a much better man-coverage guy than Clements, which should help the entire secondary.

All that said, I'm not sure about "better," but Fangio will likely be more aggressive (and maybe even more creative, utilizing his safeties and both ILBs more often) with his blitz/coverage packages than Manusky was (IMO, Sing was a cautious head coach by nature and that impacted what Manusky could do on defense).

But the bottom line is, a defense is only as good as their personnel, and the net-net quality of our defensive personnel is about the same as it was last year. So I don't see us being dramatically better or worse than last year.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
the Niners had a slow secondary with no pass rush. Now we have a faster secondary and with Aldon Smith and better defensive scheming and game adjustments---on paper we should have a much better defense and get off the field more--which should help the offense.

The main thing that has me upset is Crabtree---yet another preseason not playing---I just don't like this guy--make me crow Crabtree!

I don't think Vic Fangio is going to going to be providing better defensive schemes than Greg Manusky. Fangio's been a DC three different times, and has a very pedestrian track record. There's no logical reason to assume he'll provide superior coaching to what we've had.

And I don't see how you come to the conclusion that we should have a much better defense. We were tied for the worst turnover producing team in the league last year, and we're losing 3 of our biggest turnover producers (Clements, Lawson, Goldson)...making a severe weakness even worse. Our D-Line got weaker with the loss of Franklin, as did our LB core with the departure of Spikes.

After seeing Jimmy Raye's crappy resume, then seeing his results. Seeing Fangio's defensive resume as the equivilent of Jimmy raye's has me partially worried.

Granted though.. Fangio doesn't have Sing forcing him to play within a style that won't work, also we have a lot of talent now.

With aldon smith, and a DC who will actually blitz, we should be better in some areas, and maybe worse in some areas vs manusky. I think we will take way more risks on defense this year (which is why I didn't want goldson back) but we will see a tiny taste of it during the saints game I guess!!!!!!
[ Edited by unst4bl3 on Aug 8, 2011 at 9:47 AM ]
I like Fangio's experience. And it doesn't seems to diminished like some of the other old coaches. Now we just have to give him his horses. Seems like it's happening with the FA signing and Aldon Smith.
nevermind
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Aug 8, 2011 at 9:49 AM ]