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the eating crow for FA

I like the moves we made. Some people were really panicking, i told ya to take a chill pill
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.
Originally posted by 49erFan:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.
  • WWFGD
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 833
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

It must suck to hate your favorite team.
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
I still want to know who thinks we have actually gotten better?

We have a WR who has motivation/legal issues who may or not be able to play when we need him most.

Otherwise, we have added players on the same level (more or less) as who they replaced.

We haven't gotten worse, which a week ago seemed like the case, but have we actually improved in any substantial way?

I'm glad we weren't stagnant, and relying on drafted rookies and UDFAs to take the spots of vets, but as a whole, we have basically the same level of talent as we had last year.

Meanwhile, pretty much everyone else in our division added talent and improved significantly.

Maintaining the status quo, and/or slight improvement is hardly enough to make me uber-positive.

I still look at our schedule and find it hard to think we will better than 8-8 at best.

Like I said yesterday. If all our moves are lateral at best, coaching is a huge upgrade and should lead to some more wins. That being said, between our rookies, younger guys getting better, and FA's I'd say we're sitting a little better talent-wise. Combine that with better coaching, we should be competing for a playoff spot in our division.
Originally posted by WWFGD:
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

It must suck to hate your favorite team.

Ya I couldn't imagine spending so much of my time dedicated to hating something I'm supposed to love. It's kind of sick.
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

Totally should've read it; the best post I've seen all day.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Great Analysis! The truth or the reality of the situation is really hard to handle for some of these folks. Yea, the offense might have improved a little with Edwards and Goodwin, but how about the big elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring which is Alex Smith?

Defensively, I think we didn't improve at all, in fact, we might have regressed. No run defense, pass defense is still basically the same, and the pass rush is a huge question mark.

Ok, hold up a second fellas.

We are not comparing apples to apples here... You are basing some of your opinions on what you saw here last year, under a Singletary run team. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, that this is a Harbaugh run team. So in case you're not picking up, what I'm putting down... You may want to consider, that the coaching staff is going run some different schemes this year.

Who did we really lose, that was going to be better than the man replacing him on the team this year? The only ones I can think of, is Franklin. I truly will have to see Soap play to that level at the nose to believe... Also, Spikes. Last any of us saw, he was clearly still outplaying Bowman. Though, it's easy to see why money was not spent there, with so many other holes, and a young player with potential waiting for playing time. Not to mention an all-world ILB beside him to help the process.

Let's examine Lawson, he didn't ever materialize as a pass rush olb in the 3-4 for us. I don't think it's a reach to say that giving those reps to Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks over a full season, could produce more pressure on the QB. In fact, it would be difficult not to. Can they set the edge in the run game? That certainly remains to be seen.

Goldson, regressed last year, which means he did what for us exactly? Have one season of decent production? Congrats to him! I think it's fair to say, while MadDog points out underachivers, there is one still waiting for a job offer, named Dashon Goldson. Making the occasional big hit, does not make up for the fact he is a horrible form tackler. Enter Donte Whitner... And personally, I'm excited to see a full season from Reggie Smith, who was the best safety on the team last year.

Or what about losing Nate Clements? Did we really regress there? Really? How quicklt we forget how far Nate had regressed as a 49er. His speed is all but gone, and, has anyone ever attempted to jump as many routes as Nate Clements, and be left standing 5 yards from the line of scrimmage wondering wtf happened? Is it any wonder he was constantly 15 yards off the reciever? He was a liability in press coverage. Carlos Rogers only has to be solid to outperform Nate Clements at this point of his career.

Offensively, Baas has played one solid year in his career. Let's not crown him like the Giants did just yet. I tend to agree with MadDog, that he is still going to develop at center position. However, that does not mean that adding a probowl C, with Championship experience does not make us better, right now. Goodwin may be heading towards the downside, but Baas is still not there yet, and, still needs to prove he can even get there.

We didn't lose a reciever(unless you count Crabs out for the season, and I'm not), yet we added Braylon Edwards. Ok, let me throw the negative Nellys a bone, lets assume he goes to jail for being involved in that fight... What did we actually lose? The money? Doubtful he got a fully gauranteed contract that included going to jail.

So lets just call a spade a spade, shall we? He is a major upgrade over Morgan, and helps us immediately. Both filling in for Crabs, and forcing defenses to consider other options besides VD and Crabs.

Do you think Gore is salivating just a little, knowing defenses will start to take that extra man out of the box to cover? Yeah, me too!

Again though, I go back to comparing apples to apples. All we have to base our opinions on, is what we have saw from any of these players, in the offenses of defenses they played in previously. All that is going to change. Will Spikes look as good in Cincy this year, without Willis beside him? Can Soap hold the Nose down comparable to Franklin? Will the Nose play the same technique ths year? Different schemes with different players.

Baalke and Harbaugh told us they had a plan. And while MadDog feels this wasn't close to the plan I disagree. I think they are trying to use the money, and fill many areas instead of blowing it all on one or two guys, where the risk reward for this team would be too high. See Oakland, who spent as much on Huff as we have spent on our entire free agent class...

I think those who were man enough to own up to their doubts, see that indeed the FO is attempting to do right. And, good on them for not letting their ego get in the way of reason.

Let's face it, a few days ago, there were not many who believed we would be where we are today... Debating if the players will improve the team is one thing, but the crow served for those who doubted the organizations efforts is deserved, as the effort from the FO is certainly there. As Harbaugh himself said, time will be the judge if the plan worked or not.

Totally didn't read any of this. But let me jump in, MD is wrong. There's a reason MD lives on these forums, it's because his ego is to big to get out his front door.

Totally should've read it; the best post I've seen all day.

lol, got a website I could get the cliff notes of it?
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
I still want to know who thinks we have actually gotten better?

We have a WR who has motivation/legal issues who may or not be able to play when we need him most.

Otherwise, we have added players on the same level (more or less) as who they replaced.

We haven't gotten worse, which a week ago seemed like the case, but have we actually improved in any substantial way?

I'm glad we weren't stagnant, and relying on drafted rookies and UDFAs to take the spots of vets, but as a whole, we have basically the same level of talent as we had last year.

Meanwhile, pretty much everyone else in our division added talent and improved significantly.

Maintaining the status quo, and/or slight improvement is hardly enough to make me uber-positive.

I still look at our schedule and find it hard to think we will better than 8-8 at best.

Like I said yesterday. If all our moves are lateral at best, coaching is a huge upgrade and should lead to some more wins. That being said, between our rookies, younger guys getting better, and FA's I'd say we're sitting a little better talent-wise. Combine that with better coaching, we should be competing for a playoff spot in our division.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I just don't see it. Pretty much every pro sport ever has proven that talent makes a good coach look like a genius and a lack of it makes a good coach look like a fool.

A coach can make a difference, but unless he recruits the talent to improve the team, his impact is limited. Not even the best coach in the world can make an average team (talent wise) into real contenders.

We have, for the most part, just replaced parts we lost with comparable players. So even if we call that a wash, or even a slight upgrade, the coach can only make them be as good as they are capable of being.

A cook with average ingredients will never make something as good as one with the best ingredients. Even if the cook with lesser ingredients is "better". What you have to work with matters as much, if not more, than what you can do with it.
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
I still want to know who thinks we have actually gotten better?

We have a WR who has motivation/legal issues who may or not be able to play when we need him most.

Otherwise, we have added players on the same level (more or less) as who they replaced.

We haven't gotten worse, which a week ago seemed like the case, but have we actually improved in any substantial way?

I'm glad we weren't stagnant, and relying on drafted rookies and UDFAs to take the spots of vets, but as a whole, we have basically the same level of talent as we had last year.

Meanwhile, pretty much everyone else in our division added talent and improved significantly.

Maintaining the status quo, and/or slight improvement is hardly enough to make me uber-positive.

I still look at our schedule and find it hard to think we will better than 8-8 at best.

Like I said yesterday. If all our moves are lateral at best, coaching is a huge upgrade and should lead to some more wins. That being said, between our rookies, younger guys getting better, and FA's I'd say we're sitting a little better talent-wise. Combine that with better coaching, we should be competing for a playoff spot in our division.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I just don't see it. Pretty much every pro sport ever has proven that talent makes a good coach look like a genius and a lack of it makes a good coach look like a fool.

A coach can make a difference, but unless he recruits the talent to improve the team, his impact is limited. Not even the best coach in the world can make an average team (talent wise) into real contenders.

We have, for the most part, just replaced parts we lost with comparable players. So even if we call that a wash, or even a slight upgrade, the coach can only make them be as good as they are capable of being.

A cook with average ingredients will never make something as good as one with the best ingredients. Even if the cook with lesser ingredients is "better". What you have to work with matters as much, if not more, than what you can do with it.

Maybe you should be reminded that these were our "cooks" last couple years...





And I'll take a great cook with average ingredients over a s**tty cook with the best ingredients on earth.
[ Edited by AmpLee on Aug 4, 2011 at 9:42 PM ]
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
The Edwards signing doesn't mean anything. He can be good or he can be very average.
Remember how D-Jax worked out?

Braylon Edwards is way better than D Jax and D Jax was on the tail end of his career.


Edwards is a classic underachiever that gets into too much trouble. That wasn't the point.
The point is, fans tend to hype up a player in the off-season when they really don't have much reason too.

This free agency period has been horrible for this team. Every big name free agent that the Niners went after simply refused to play for this team. EVEN WHEN THE NINERS OFFERED MORE MONEY THAN OTHER TEAMS, guys still didn't want to play here.
Baalke signs a couple guys that nobody really wanted and we're supposed to "eat crow" ? Gimme a break
i'm surprised how so many people can't be a little happy that the niners made some moves and we're actually gonna get to watch some football in a couple months. eat crow or not... be happy.
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
I still want to know who thinks we have actually gotten better?

We have a WR who has motivation/legal issues who may or not be able to play when we need him most.

Otherwise, we have added players on the same level (more or less) as who they replaced.

We haven't gotten worse, which a week ago seemed like the case, but have we actually improved in any substantial way?

I'm glad we weren't stagnant, and relying on drafted rookies and UDFAs to take the spots of vets, but as a whole, we have basically the same level of talent as we had last year.

Meanwhile, pretty much everyone else in our division added talent and improved significantly.

Maintaining the status quo, and/or slight improvement is hardly enough to make me uber-positive.

I still look at our schedule and find it hard to think we will better than 8-8 at best.

I think how good the team will be is a different debate. Its infinite. It depends upon how good you think the players are that we lost, and how good the players are that we picked up.

Obviously, the coaching staff did not think highly of many of our players, such as Manny Lawson, Aubrayo Franklin, Nate Clements and maybe Takeo Spikes.
Lawson and Franklin could have been had for a reasonable price, but we obviously did not want to pay it.

What I like about our front office, is that they baalk at prices that are too high. For example, they did not feel it was worth it to pay Lawson 3 million for example. Maybe they thought he was worth a little less than that. We can argue about what we think Lawson is worth (and I liked Lawson), but our front office was not being "cheap" as some fans have suggested, rather, they pay what they believe a player is worth.

But to try and make a case, I would say...

1) They think fairly highly of Bowman.
2) They feel Sopoaga can play NT just as well as he can play end (despite the fact that he was tried there before).
3) They did not think Lawson was an every-down player and they feel Aldon Smith can become an every-down player at the same position.
4) They thought Goldson and Clements wanted too much money, so they brought in players with the same or better ability.
5) Free agency is not over, and because of the wise spending, we still have money left.

One of our main problems was pass rush, so we upgraded with McDonald (a pass rush specialist) and Sopoaga (a better bull rusher than Franklin). We also got Aldon Smith, who looks promising so far. We now have three D-lineman capable of pushing the pocket; Sopoaga was always much better at bull-rushing guards and centers, then he was bull-rushing tackles, and McDonald can apply pressure from the edge much better than Sopoaga. Throw Aldon Smith into the mix to replace Lawson, and we now have four players who can get after the quarterback. Before this we had, 1 1/2 (Smith, and part-time McDonald).

How will our run defense hold up? That is what remains to be seen. Can McDonald hold the edge? Can Soap hold the middle? Can Aldon learn quickly? I think we'll be OK, we have the underrated RJF to back up any position on the line. If Soap can play nose at least as well as RJF has played, we should be fine.

The team is trying to improve, and obviously did not see the value in keeping 3-4 players who could only be on the field as pass-rush (Laboy) or run-stop (Franklin) specialists.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Aug 4, 2011 at 10:11 PM ]
Originally posted by PickNo24toGB:
i'm surprised how so many people can't be a little happy that the niners made some moves and we're actually gonna get to watch some football in a couple months. eat crow or not... be happy.

dude, its all about not getting nnamdi, it was nnamdi or bust.

For the price of potentially getting nnamdi, we got Edwards, Goodwin, Akers, Rogers, Williams and Whitner.

Easy trade off, rather spend 16M on 6 players, 5 of which are very good quality, over 1 guy, one guy is never the savior.
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
The Edwards signing doesn't mean anything. He can be good or he can be very average.
Remember how D-Jax worked out?

Braylon Edwards is way better than D Jax and D Jax was on the tail end of his career.


Edwards is a classic underachiever that gets into too much trouble. That wasn't the point.
The point is, fans tend to hype up a player in the off-season when they really don't have much reason too.

This free agency period has been horrible for this team. Every big name free agent that the Niners went after simply refused to play for this team. EVEN WHEN THE NINERS OFFERED MORE MONEY THAN OTHER TEAMS, guys still didn't want to play here.
Baalke signs a couple guys that nobody really wanted and we're supposed to "eat crow" ? Gimme a break

I don't care about anyone eating crow - but Nnamdi refused to play for many teams that offered more money - not just Niners. Cromartie stayed with Jets (a huge incentive when you don't have to move).

Patriots traded for Chad and Albert - no one wanted them but they traded for them. Just because no one wants them - doesn't mean a whole lot. SF Giants signed a bunch of players no wanted last year before the season, and during the season - but it worked.

Have you looked at the Stanford roster under Harbaugh - he recruited a bunch a player who no one wanted. It's about finding the right fit. How many championships Redskins have won under Snyder? Going after big name free-agents and paying big has hardly worked in NFL since the mid-90s.

Let's wait and see how these players fit in Harbaugh's plan.