the eating crow for FA

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Do you think Edwards has massively underachieved? Over 5,000 yards and 39 touchdowns in six seasons. Whitner's 140 tackles last year at safety isn't bad. Rogers was the Redskins' best corner. Maybe in relation to where they were drafted it can be argued that they have underachieved. But "massively" underachieved seems just a tad hyperbolic.

In relation to their draft slot, their careers have been mediocre. Edwards looked like a star about three years ago, a true number 1. But, he has disappointed after that dramatic rise. He's more of a number two WR at this point.

Whitner had a lot of tackles last year, that is true. However, the Bills contemplated benching him in the past and have been thrilled with his performance. He has not been the playmaker they envisioned.

Rogers was to be a shutdown corner, and any time you have a CB in the top ten picks, you are taking about the best of the best from his class. It just hasn't been the case. He is a number two CB for most teams in the NFL.

While none of these guys are busts by any means, they really have disappointed their teams and fans by not coming close to expectations. I am willing to concede the "massive" in underachieving.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

I'm glad I lived up to your expectations.

To me, the net gain/loss of this free agent class is pretty even. Breaking down the positions:
1) NT- Franklin is better than Soap at NT. The team has tried Soap at NT before, and the experiment didn't work. That is the reason the team signed Franklin from Baltimore. I have a hard time believing that anything has changed over time. Loss.
This has been covered at length. When Soap played NT, we were a 2 gap 3-4 defense. When Franklin first started, we still 2 gapped, and he sucked, too. ! gap NT is much easier to play, and was a schemetic adjustment Wade Phillips made years ago because the increase in 3-4 teams created a shortage of true NTs. That's why no one (even the Redskins) broke the bank for Franklin. 1 Gap NTs are not that rare. Soap will be fine at NT. He is more agile, stronger, and bigger than Franklin. His technique has improved dramatically.
2) LDE- McDonald for Soap. Better in pass rushing, worse in run defense. I'll call it even.
Fair asumption
3) ILB- Bowman for Spikes. We already tried to replace Spikes with Bowman, and ended up going back to the vet. A loss in 2011, maybe a tie in 2012, a win in 2013.
3rd rounders are usually developmental. He was hesitant at the beginning of he season, but he started in week 17, and he got 15 tackles. He played fast and trusted his instincts. Sometimes you have to let the kids grow up. NO WAY they were giving TKO 3 years. He did great for us, time to move on.
4) CB- Rogers for Clements- Better econmic deal, but a loss in talent.
I find this statement to be ridiculous. Rogers is faster, quicker, and more agile than nate. He is a very good cover corner, who generates little buzz because his poor ball skills result in dropped interceptions (some potential game changers that led the Redskins fans to turn on him). I would take a dropped interception (see also: pass defensed) over Clements' burnt toast any day. Rogers is just as willing and dependable in run support, though his hits will be less explosive and entertaining. I'll take Greg Cosell's opinion over yours on his one.
5) S- Whitner for Goldson- pretty much even, maybe a slight edge to Whitner.
6) C- Goodwin for Baas- While Goodwin wins in 2009, Baas is going to be the better player in 2011.
No way to say that yet, definitively. Baas is strong at the point of attack, Goodwin is great out in space. Depends on what each is asked to do.
7) WR- Edwards for Morgan/Crabtree- Better.
8) OLB- Smith for Lawson- we will soon see.
I think they are both freakishly athletic. It just seems like Aldon is the better freak for this scheme.
9) QB- Alex Smith for Alex Smith- a tie.

I really don't see a cause for mass celebration or crow eating.

The crow is probably a result of the hate, panic, condescending tones and language, insults, and general chicken little behavior that ran wild on the board over the last ten days. I swear sometimes, we as men just need to reach down into our drawers and find a bigger set of balls.

The bottom line is, No one on the board can say definitively what the teams plan was, but they said they had a plan, and they got pretty impressive results. Was the plan a gamble? Sure. If Rogers signed elsewhere, all of the top CBs would have been gone, and the team would be forced to move forward w/ Spencer, Brown, and the younguns. I think it takes guts to hold to your guns like that, and enough brains to correctly identify the available talent, the number of likely landing spots, and the momentum of the market. If it wasn't how you saw things going down, that doesn't mean the FO didn't anticipate it, or something similar, with a more general scope. It's okay, you don't have to be right all the time. No one here gets a paycheck from the NFL. There's nothing wrong with being JUST a fan; that's all of us.

I think we should wait till they play some games together. All that happened is we got some holes filled. Its still all on the coaching staff.

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

Agreed.

It's amazing how ignorant of simple economics some people are by saying that all these signings were not part of the "plan." When a market is over-flooded with sellers, as this year was with free agents due to the opting out of the CBA last year, it causes the market to be soft. When a market is soft, that means there are more sellers than there are buyers, so a lot of quality sellers (FA's) would be left after the initial frenzied rush. Not only that, but you are more likely to get good value, since those sellers are desperate to sell their product and are willing to take less for their services.

Whereas some teams over-paid for the services of players because they got caught up in the FA rush or are looking to corner-the-market in FA to "buy a championship," the Niners, who have a new system (HC, GM, etc.), waited and capitalized on the value left behind, thus not only getting the most for their money, but also getting players that would normally demand more in a normal market year, with the option to extend or re-sign these players after this year if they preform very well because they will have the cap to do so, since they didn't waste it on flashy names.

Signing Asomungha for a crazy price would have been "sexy," but for just $4mil more than his $12mil/year tag, the Niners got a pretty good SS, a very good WR, a very good center, a good corner, and some other important contributing pieces. That is what this team needs right now, not a large splashy name, but to fill holes and replace Nolan/Singletary guys with Harbaugh/Baalke guys.

It's never smart to over-pay someone. You have to put a value on their service and then try to get the best deal... it will pay-off in the end.

Anyway, all this talk of "lack of interest" just shows ignorance of the abnormal free agency found this year.

We were a flashy name on defense and a good veteran QB away from winning our division. Why blow it up and start over, we've been down that road before? Hell, at one point of the season last year our defense was ranked in the top 10.

And how exactly did the Niners "blow it up?" If anything, they upgraded at every single position they lost except maybe CB and NT, which may or may not be a slight decline from Clements or Franklin. Not only that, they added a #1 WR in Edwards.

What good veteran QB would in this FA would have led the Niners to the promise land? Kolbe, who is an unknown and got crazy money? Vince Young? *cough*

If you think Asomungha or Jonathan Joseph would have led the Niners to the playoffs, I think you are gravely mistaken.

The loss of Clements, Franklin, and Spikes hurts the run D. in a huge fashion, they will definitely be hard to replace in that area. The defense will also suffer the loss of continuity amongst the players, their veteran leadership, and their vocal presence that you can't get from any of those FA.

Edwards is a great signing however we still have this problem at QB. I mean really, are you trusting Alex to all of the sudden flip the light switch on and become this great QB that we all have been waiting for? I like Kolb, but I'll go with your argument that Kolb sucks, how about Matt Hassleback, Billy Volek, or even Donovan McNabb who you have to at the very least admit that he is a better QB than Alex Smith.

Look I hate to be pessimistic, but signing second and third tier players just doesn't excite me anymore.

Originally posted by Antix:
I think we should wait till they play some games together. All that happened is we got some holes filled. Its still all on the coaching staff.

with good players

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

When dealing with the salary cap, the only thing on a team's mind, should be acquiring players at a "good" price. If they are not acquired at a "good" price, then you are not winning the salary cap game in comparison to other teams.

Anything that is sold at a good value, is not perfect. If an item in a market is on sale, the question of course is, "why?"
That is Trent Baalke's job; to find out "why?" The answer comes when the season starts, and the players start playing. Only then can we find out if the "?" players were a bargain or not.

If this strategy is not satisfactory, you have to ask, "What is the alternative?"
The only other alternative that I can see, to shopping for bargains, is shopping for non-bargains.
By not getting the best bang for your buck, you are no longer COMPETING with other teams. If you are not COMPETING in free agency, then what the heck are you doing?
Paying a high price for a sure thing is NON-competitive (in the arena of "salary cap free agency"), almost by definition, because it does not require much background work in dealing with ?'s.

If you pull in free agents with ?'s, at a good price, and they turn out to be a bargain, you have done your JOB as a GM. However, if you simply pay for flawless, proven players at a high price, you are NOT doing your job as a GM, and in fact the average fan could do just as good a job without doing any background work at all, because everybody knows who the superstars are.

Could Nnamdi Asomugha be much BETTER than advertised? Highly unlikely. Could he be worse, he certainly could be.
However, could Carlos Rogers be better than advertised? He certainly could be (just like Walt Harris). Could he be worse, he certainly could be. But overall, you still come out ahead, because there is a POSSIBILITY of higher upside.

The strategy itself makes sense, but ultimately, the season will determine just how much bang for the buck we have received from these players.

Originally posted by YungAce:

Originally posted by Antix:
I think we should wait till they play some games together. All that happened is we got some holes filled. Its still all on the coaching staff.

with good players

They have to play good though.

Originally posted by Antix:

Originally posted by YungAce:

Originally posted by Antix:
I think we should wait till they play some games together. All that happened is we got some holes filled. Its still all on the coaching staff.

with good players

They have to play good though.

Yes sir, no doubt about it

Originally posted by Marvin49:
K...I hate to be a killjoy, but we do need to calm down a bit. LOL!!

I like the moves they made but there is a reason all of these guys were available for bargain prices. I think it was a good move to get into the secondary market and fill up on bargain priced players, but we didn't just get into the Super Bowl. ;-)

I hope all these moves work out, but we need to slow down a bit and see how this all plays out.

No f**king s**t, that doesn't mean we can't be excited. What else are we going to do for a month?

Crabtree & Edwards = Diva x 2 Now all they need is to sign T.O. for a 1 yr deal and Harbaugh can blow his brains out!

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

Agreed.

It's amazing how ignorant of simple economics some people are by saying that all these signings were not part of the "plan." When a market is over-flooded with sellers, as this year was with free agents due to the opting out of the CBA last year, it causes the market to be soft. When a market is soft, that means there are more sellers than there are buyers, so a lot of quality sellers (FA's) would be left after the initial frenzied rush. Not only that, but you are more likely to get good value, since those sellers are desperate to sell their product and are willing to take less for their services.

Whereas some teams over-paid for the services of players because they got caught up in the FA rush or are looking to corner-the-market in FA to "buy a championship," the Niners, who have a new system (HC, GM, etc.), waited and capitalized on the value left behind, thus not only getting the most for their money, but also getting players that would normally demand more in a normal market year, with the option to extend or re-sign these players after this year if they preform very well because they will have the cap to do so, since they didn't waste it on flashy names.

Signing Asomungha for a crazy price would have been "sexy," but for just $4mil more than his $12mil/year tag, the Niners got a pretty good SS, a very good WR, a very good center, a good corner, and some other important contributing pieces. That is what this team needs right now, not a large splashy name, but to fill holes and replace Nolan/Singletary guys with Harbaugh/Baalke guys.

It's never smart to over-pay someone. You have to put a value on their service and then try to get the best deal... it will pay-off in the end.

Anyway, all this talk of "lack of interest" just shows ignorance of the abnormal free agency found this year.

We were a flashy name on defense and a good veteran QB away from winning our division. Why blow it up and start over, we've been down that road before? Hell, at one point of the season last year our defense was ranked in the top 10.

And how exactly did the Niners "blow it up?" If anything, they upgraded at every single position they lost except maybe CB and NT, which may or may not be a slight decline from Clements or Franklin. Not only that, they added a #1 WR in Edwards.

What good veteran QB would in this FA would have led the Niners to the promise land? Kolbe, who is an unknown and got crazy money? Vince Young? *cough*

If you think Asomungha or Jonathan Joseph would have led the Niners to the playoffs, I think you are gravely mistaken.

The loss of Clements, Franklin, and Spikes hurts the run D. in a huge fashion, they will definitely be hard to replace in that area. The defense will also suffer the loss of continuity amongst the players, their veteran leadership, and their vocal presence that you can't get from any of those FA.

Edwards is a great signing however we still have this problem at QB. I mean really, are you trusting Alex to all of the sudden flip the light switch on and become this great QB that we all have been waiting for? I like Kolb, but I'll go with your argument that Kolb sucks, how about Matt Hassleback, Billy Volek, or even Donovan McNabb who you have to at the very least admit that he is a better QB than Alex Smith.

Look I hate to be pessimistic, but signing second and third tier players just doesn't excite me anymore.

So you DO realize that your defending players that haven't produced a winning record since they arrived in SF right?

The defense is not the reason we've been losing for at least the past 2 years. Yea, at times I wanted to throw my tv out the window because of the defense, but that's because we were a player or two short from becoming an elite D. The defense was definitely not the problem I would point most of the blame at Nolan, Sing, and #11.

Originally posted by Antix:

Originally posted by YungAce:

Originally posted by Antix:
I think we should wait till they play some games together. All that happened is we got some holes filled. Its still all on the coaching staff.

with good players

They have to play good though.

Have to get them before you can give them a chance to play good.

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by obx49:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

Agreed.

It's amazing how ignorant of simple economics some people are by saying that all these signings were not part of the "plan." When a market is over-flooded with sellers, as this year was with free agents due to the opting out of the CBA last year, it causes the market to be soft. When a market is soft, that means there are more sellers than there are buyers, so a lot of quality sellers (FA's) would be left after the initial frenzied rush. Not only that, but you are more likely to get good value, since those sellers are desperate to sell their product and are willing to take less for their services.

Whereas some teams over-paid for the services of players because they got caught up in the FA rush or are looking to corner-the-market in FA to "buy a championship," the Niners, who have a new system (HC, GM, etc.), waited and capitalized on the value left behind, thus not only getting the most for their money, but also getting players that would normally demand more in a normal market year, with the option to extend or re-sign these players after this year if they preform very well because they will have the cap to do so, since they didn't waste it on flashy names.

Signing Asomungha for a crazy price would have been "sexy," but for just $4mil more than his $12mil/year tag, the Niners got a pretty good SS, a very good WR, a very good center, a good corner, and some other important contributing pieces. That is what this team needs right now, not a large splashy name, but to fill holes and replace Nolan/Singletary guys with Harbaugh/Baalke guys.

It's never smart to over-pay someone. You have to put a value on their service and then try to get the best deal... it will pay-off in the end.

Anyway, all this talk of "lack of interest" just shows ignorance of the abnormal free agency found this year.

We were a flashy name on defense and a good veteran QB away from winning our division. Why blow it up and start over, we've been down that road before? Hell, at one point of the season last year our defense was ranked in the top 10.

And how exactly did the Niners "blow it up?" If anything, they upgraded at every single position they lost except maybe CB and NT, which may or may not be a slight decline from Clements or Franklin. Not only that, they added a #1 WR in Edwards.

What good veteran QB would in this FA would have led the Niners to the promise land? Kolbe, who is an unknown and got crazy money? Vince Young? *cough*

If you think Asomungha or Jonathan Joseph would have led the Niners to the playoffs, I think you are gravely mistaken.

The loss of Clements, Franklin, and Spikes hurts the run D. in a huge fashion, they will definitely be hard to replace in that area. The defense will also suffer the loss of continuity amongst the players, their veteran leadership, and their vocal presence that you can't get from any of those FA.

Edwards is a great signing however we still have this problem at QB. I mean really, are you trusting Alex to all of the sudden flip the light switch on and become this great QB that we all have been waiting for? I like Kolb, but I'll go with your argument that Kolb sucks, how about Matt Hassleback, Billy Volek, or even Donovan McNabb who you have to at the very least admit that he is a better QB than Alex Smith.

Look I hate to be pessimistic, but signing second and third tier players just doesn't excite me anymore.

So you DO realize that your defending players that haven't produced a winning record since they arrived in SF right?

The defense is not the reason we've been losing for at least the past 2 years. Yea, at times I wanted to throw my tv out the window because of the defense, but that's because we were a player or two short from becoming an elite D. The defense was definitely not the problem I would point most of the blame at Nolan, Sing, and #11.

You're delusional then. #11 never played a whole season the past two years and yet he's the reason why we didn't make the playoffs. HAHA

go back and check the 1994 free agents we signed. Dion, pro bowl DE & LB etc. Guys who put us over the top to win our last super bowl

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.

Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

I'm glad I lived up to your expectations.

To me, the net gain/loss of this free agent class is pretty even. Breaking down the positions:
1) NT- Franklin is better than Soap at NT. The team has tried Soap at NT before, and the experiment didn't work. That is the reason the team signed Franklin from Baltimore. I have a hard time believing that anything has changed over time. Loss.
2) LDE- McDonald for Soap. Better in pass rushing, worse in run defense. I'll call it even.
3) ILB- Bowman for Spikes. We already tried to replace Spikes with Bowman, and ended up going back to the vet. A loss in 2011, maybe a tie in 2012, a win in 2013.
4) CB- Rogers for Clements- Better econmic deal, but a loss in talent.
5) S- Whitner for Goldson- pretty much even, maybe a slight edge to Whitner.
6) C- Goodwin for Baas- While Goodwin wins in 2009, Baas is going to be the better player in 2011.
7) WR- Edwards for Morgan/Crabtree- Better.
8) OLB- Smith for Lawson- we will soon see.
9) QB- Alex Smith for Alex Smith- a tie.

I really don't see a cause for mass celebration or crow eating.

I'm trying to say this in a fun way...

So now Baas is a starting caliber NFL center? Now he's going to be better than a pro-bowl player? Didn't you say he was a BACKUP? And anyone who says he might be better than Heitmann has a low IQ?

What happened to that?

They PLAYED the games, and now crow is served. As far as those other players, we'll have to see if a second helping of crow will be necessary at the conclusion of 2011.