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the eating crow for FA

I still like your big boards Maddog
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

Agreed.

It's amazing how ignorant of simple economics some people are by saying that all these signings were not part of the "plan." When a market is over-flooded with sellers, as this year was with free agents due to the opting out of the CBA last year, it causes the market to be soft. When a market is soft, that means there are more sellers than there are buyers, so a lot of quality sellers (FA's) would be left after the initial frenzied rush. Not only that, but you are more likely to get good value, since those sellers are desperate to sell their product and are willing to take less for their services.

Whereas some teams over-paid for the services of players because they got caught up in the FA rush or are looking to corner-the-market in FA to "buy a championship," the Niners, who have a new system (HC, GM, etc.), waited and capitalized on the value left behind, thus not only getting the most for their money, but also getting players that would normally demand more in a normal market year, with the option to extend or re-sign these players after this year if they preform very well because they will have the cap to do so, since they didn't waste it on flashy names.

Signing Asomungha for a crazy price would have been "sexy," but for just $4mil more than his $12mil/year tag, the Niners got a pretty good SS, a very good WR, a very good center, a good corner, one of the best kickers in the last decade, and some other important contributing pieces. That is what this team needs right now, not a large splashy name, but to fill holes and replace Nolan/Singletary guys with Harbaugh/Baalke guys.

It's never smart to over-pay someone. You have to put a value on their service and then try to get the best deal... it will pay-off in the end.

Anyway, all this talk of "lack of interest" just shows ignorance of the abnormal free agency found this year.

[ Edited by RedWaltz24 on Aug 4, 2011 at 18:22:55 ]
  • Wodwo
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Originally posted by YungAce:
I still like your big boards Maddog

  • AmpLee
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I'm just gonna leave this here...

Originally posted by 5280High:
Due to the amount of hypocrisy, there was a sense of obligation to use the search function and lookie what popped up...

Thread Highlights


Originally posted by MadDog49er:
13% No.
The board has reached an all-time low for intelligence.

Let's review the facts:
1) Heitmann has been classified by the press as the best player on the OL the past two years (including Staley, who is never critiqued by the board, and is never questioned about his starting role). Baas has not even been in the conversation about being the best, or even one of the best.
2) Heitmann is the team captain. Captains lead teams, they don't sit on benches.
3) The coaches love Heitmann, as does the scouting department.
4) Heitmann has built chemisty with Smith over the past 5 years. That is never overrated, especially for a guy who has struggled with confidence in the past.
5) Heitmann is an established vet at the starting center position between a rookie and a young, developing player in Rachal.
6) Baas wasn't even on the radar to supplant Heitmann before he went down.
7) Baas hasn't even been named the Game 1 starter yet. He is currently fighting for a job with Wragge, but appears to have the upper hand right now.
8) The coaching staff and front office think so lightly of Baas that they only offered a 1 year contract.

9) Sliding over one position in the line does not suddenly make a player become good. Let's not forget, a rookie from Idaho just replaced him at LG.
10) Last week, people were calling for Wragge to replace Baas after a series of practices where Baas could not get the ball consistently to Smith. One half of a preseason game is way too premature to annoint Baas as anything but a guy fighting for a backup job once Heitmann returns.

11) A whopping total of......9 career starts at center in college and the NFL, spanning the last 12 years of football life at Michigan and San Francisco.

The Niners do not live in a fantasy world, unlike some of our board members who are blinded by their wishful thinking. They have seen Heitmann and Baas snap balls for years side by side. And, there is no comparison. There is no controversy. Heitmann is the starter, period.

Shake yourselves back into reality, people. A healthy Heitmann comes back right away to start, and Baas fights to gain a new contract with the team. The best he can hope for is Rachal or Iupati to stink early in the season, and even then will have to compete with Snyder and Wragge for time.

Cheers.

P.S. If I am wrong, I will apologize to the board. At the same time, the board should call for the head of every person in the organization for being idiots, from the scouting department to the OC, to the OL coach, to the head coach, to everyone in player personnel. They would all be wrong, as well as all of the other coaches, scouts, player personnel directors from previous regimes. I don't think they are morons, that they actually watch these guys day in and day out, and have a general idea of how this game of football works.

And the apology?...


Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Honestly, you don't know what you are talking about. So, please stop. When you say "Heitmann doesn't fit that identity", let me ask you a couple questions:
1) Who was the unquestioned starter at center before Heitmann's injury? Uh, Heitmann. Baas wasn't even in contention for the starting job.
2) If "Heitmann doesn't fit that identity", then why have the Niners bypassed drafting a center the past two years, including the 2009 Draft?
3) If "Heitmann doesn't fit that identity", then why did the Niners not pursue a center in free agency?

Heitmann was going to be the starter. This was unquestioned. The only reason Baas is getting snaps at all (he hasn't even been declared the starter for game 1 over Wragge yet), is because Heitmann is injured.

You don't know what you are talking about. Sorry, but your level of knowledge in the game is low. Watch the rest of the league, do some reading, and strip yourself of your bias against Heitmann. Until then, stop posting naive posts. They are embarrassing.

Being opinionated doesn't make you knowledgeable, while you may know more than the average fan you are not an expert.

I respect the amount of time you put into your draft analysis, but with all due respect please STFU and stop pissing on people who don't share your opinion. There are some zoners who don't wanna be miserable cynic and would rather have something to look forward to then lose all hope of being a respectable team again. Look to your own posts and take your own advice.

Edit: Bolded so people dont have to read about Heitman anymore
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
49ers committed $16 mil in 2011 to Akers, Rogers, Goodwin, Whitner, Edwards, Williams. Raiders committed $16 mil in 2011 to Michael Huff.
22 minutes ago
  • obx49
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

Agreed.

It's amazing how ignorant of simple economics some people are by saying that all these signings were not part of the "plan." When a market is over-flooded with sellers, as this year was with free agents due to the opting out of the CBA last year, it causes the market to be soft. When a market is soft, that means there are more sellers than there are buyers, so a lot of quality sellers (FA's) would be left after the initial frenzied rush. Not only that, but you are more likely to get good value, since those sellers are desperate to sell their product and are willing to take less for their services.

Whereas some teams over-paid for the services of players because they got caught up in the FA rush or are looking to corner-the-market in FA to "buy a championship," the Niners, who have a new system (HC, GM, etc.), waited and capitalized on the value left behind, thus not only getting the most for their money, but also getting players that would normally demand more in a normal market year, with the option to extend or re-sign these players after this year if they preform very well because they will have the cap to do so, since they didn't waste it on flashy names.

Signing Asomungha for a crazy price would have been "sexy," but for just $4mil more than his $12mil/year tag, the Niners got a pretty good SS, a very good WR, a very good center, a good corner, and some other important contributing pieces. That is what this team needs right now, not a large splashy name, but to fill holes and replace Nolan/Singletary guys with Harbaugh/Baalke guys.

It's never smart to over-pay someone. You have to put a value on their service and then try to get the best deal... it will pay-off in the end.

Anyway, all this talk of "lack of interest" just shows ignorance of the abnormal free agency found this year.

We were a flashy name on defense and a good veteran QB away from winning our division. Why blow it up and start over, we've been down that road before? Hell, at one point of the season last year our defense was ranked in the top 10.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

I'm glad I lived up to your expectations.

To me, the net gain/loss of this free agent class is pretty even. Breaking down the positions:
1) NT- Franklin is better than Soap at NT. The team has tried Soap at NT before, and the experiment didn't work. That is the reason the team signed Franklin from Baltimore. I have a hard time believing that anything has changed over time. Loss.
2) LDE- McDonald for Soap. Better in pass rushing, worse in run defense. I'll call it even.
3) ILB- Bowman for Spikes. We already tried to replace Spikes with Bowman, and ended up going back to the vet. A loss in 2011, maybe a tie in 2012, a win in 2013.
4) CB- Rogers for Clements- Better econmic deal, but a loss in talent.
5) S- Whitner for Goldson- pretty much even, maybe a slight edge to Whitner.
6) C- Goodwin for Baas- While Goodwin wins in 2009, Baas is going to be the better player in 2011.
7) WR- Edwards for Morgan/Crabtree- Better.
8) OLB- Smith for Lawson- we will soon see.
9) QB- Alex Smith for Alex Smith- a tie.

I really don't see a cause for mass celebration or crow eating.
Hope it tastes good boys

Expect at least one more signing once the rosters are dropped to 53
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

I'm glad I lived up to your expectations.

To me, the net gain/loss of this free agent class is pretty even. Breaking down the positions:
1) NT- Franklin is better than Soap at NT. The team has tried Soap at NT before, and the experiment didn't work. That is the reason the team signed Franklin from Baltimore. I have a hard time believing that anything has changed over time. Loss.
2) LDE- McDonald for Soap. Better in pass rushing, worse in run defense. I'll call it even.
3) ILB- Bowman for Spikes. We already tried to replace Spikes with Bowman, and ended up going back to the vet. A loss in 2011, maybe a tie in 2012, a win in 2013.
4) CB- Rogers for Clements- Better econmic deal, but a loss in talent.
5) S- Whitner for Goldson- pretty much even, maybe a slight edge to Whitner.
6) C- Goodwin for Baas- While Goodwin wins in 2009, Baas is going to be the better player in 2011.
7) WR- Edwards for Morgan/Crabtree- Better.
8) OLB- Smith for Lawson- we will soon see.
9) QB- Alex Smith for Alex Smith- a tie.

I really don't see a cause for mass celebration or crow eating.

of course not.

- 98
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by MadDog49er:



To me, the net gain/loss of this free agent class is pretty even.

MD... this post is you eating more crow.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

I'm glad I lived up to your expectations.

To me, the net gain/loss of this free agent class is pretty even. Breaking down the positions:
1) NT- Franklin is better than Soap at NT. The team has tried Soap at NT before, and the experiment didn't work. That is the reason the team signed Franklin from Baltimore. I have a hard time believing that anything has changed over time. Loss.
2) LDE- McDonald for Soap. Better in pass rushing, worse in run defense. I'll call it even.
3) ILB- Bowman for Spikes. We already tried to replace Spikes with Bowman, and ended up going back to the vet. A loss in 2011, maybe a tie in 2012, a win in 2013.
4) CB- Rogers for Clements- Better econmic deal, but a loss in talent.
5) S- Whitner for Goldson- pretty much even, maybe a slight edge to Whitner.
6) C- Goodwin for Baas- While Goodwin wins in 2009, Baas is going to be the better player in 2011.
7) WR- Edwards for Morgan/Crabtree- Better.
8) OLB- Smith for Lawson- we will soon see.
9) QB- Alex Smith for Alex Smith- a tie.

I really don't see a cause for mass celebration or crow eating.

yes!!! dig the hole deeper. I can't wait for this time bomb list you have compiled to explode in 3 months.

I think your in way over your head hahaha

[ Edited by Shorteous on Aug 4, 2011 at 18:30:05 ]
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It is heartnening to see the Niners make these last minute moves. Adding Goodwin, Whitner and Edwards helps our team's chances a lot more in 2011 than the roster we had a couple days ago. Some notes to go with BrianGo's listing of free agent players signed by the team, in addition to Corcoran, who was also signed:

Braylon Edwards- A nice potential addition to the WR's. 53 receptions in 2010 was not impressive, but 17.1 yards/catch and 7 TD's is nice. Living in Ohio, and watching a ton of Browns' games over the years, I have to say "Buyer Beware". The kid is an underachiever, and has hands of stone. Ted Ginn hands of stone. But, certainly worth the risk for the money, especially with Crabtree down for awhile. Edwards, who is never going to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award, still has to clear a potential legal hurdle, as mentioned from Fox News in the story below today:

NFL free agent Braylon Edwards could face legal trouble Thursday for his role in a fight that broke out at a bar in Birmingham, Mich., early Monday, the Detroit Free Press reported.

A statement from South Bar, in downtown Birmingham, implicated Edwards in the incident that saw two of his cousins charged with felonious assault after allegedly attacking two bouncers with a pocket knife and a fork.

"Braylon Edwards was present and involved, but it's an ongoing police investigation, so at this time, we don't have any further information," the bar confirmed Tuesday.

The Free Press also reported that "privately, employees at South Bar said Edwards was spurring on his cousins rather than trying to get them to stop fighting."

Edwards' cousins, brothers Tre Lenard Wright, 19, and Edmund Jerrell Wright, 22, both pleaded not guilty Monday.


Donte Whitner- Another big name acquisition who has underachieved, like Edwards, but presents good value in this contract, especially when analyzing the Niners' secondary. Like Edwards, the team really did not have much interest in retaining him, and like Edwards, did not have big interest to be picked up around the league.

He's still young, and can be a guy who holds the fort for two years, but Buffalo fans were not heartbroken over his departure, which should temper some Niners' fans enthusiasm. A good, but not great player.

Johnathan Goodwin- As mentioned last night on the Goodwin thread, he's going to be 33 during this season, and the Saints left him to walk. He was the 7th, 8th, 9th center (if someone can verify that would be great) to sign in free agency. Might hold up two years, and the best part is that it frees Snyder to replace Rachal. Got a lot of help in NO with their two monster All-Pro guards.

Carlos Rogers- As in common with the previously mentioned threesome, not much interest around the league. Definitely a second or third tier CB at this point, and nowhere near the level of Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor, or even Carr...but miles better than T. Brown. So, another good one year signing.

Antwan Applewhite- He is a roster filler, a guy who is a team's fourth OLB. Not worthy of being excited.

Larry Grant- A big hustle guy who will compete for a backup ILB role. Good special teamer.

I get the idea that many want a collective crow eating to take place on the board. I'm not sure why this is so important to them. Some are calling for people to aplogize. Now, that is bizarre. Maybe they believe Trent Baalke is a genius, and the master plan fell into place. Maybe they just want to dismiss any criticism against ownership. I guess Trent and Jed have many relatives on the board.

Well, I can guarantee that this was not the master plan. This was not even the backup to the master plan or the backup to the backup to the master plan. It was a complete failure up front, with a mad scramble to pick up big-named players who are in the back side of their career, or have massively underachieved. A celebration for big-named guys that virtually nobody wanted in free agency is not a reason for an "aha" moment, or a demand for crow-eating.

Will the acquisitions help the team? I think so. Edwards brings a big play ability, but will also crush your heart. However, fans have to ask themselves: why was there so little interest around the league for him? The same goes for Whitner and Rogers. All of them are better than the current man on the roster,so this makes me happy. But is any a "difference maker", someone who will take a team to the next level? No.

That is my opinion.

Now, on to Taylor Mays. And... suddenly, without warning, the "aha" crowd goes defeaningly silent.

Cheers.

Ahh, hubris. Exactly what we all expected.

Agreed.

It's amazing how ignorant of simple economics some people are by saying that all these signings were not part of the "plan." When a market is over-flooded with sellers, as this year was with free agents due to the opting out of the CBA last year, it causes the market to be soft. When a market is soft, that means there are more sellers than there are buyers, so a lot of quality sellers (FA's) would be left after the initial frenzied rush. Not only that, but you are more likely to get good value, since those sellers are desperate to sell their product and are willing to take less for their services.

Whereas some teams over-paid for the services of players because they got caught up in the FA rush or are looking to corner-the-market in FA to "buy a championship," the Niners, who have a new system (HC, GM, etc.), waited and capitalized on the value left behind, thus not only getting the most for their money, but also getting players that would normally demand more in a normal market year, with the option to extend or re-sign these players after this year if they preform very well because they will have the cap to do so, since they didn't waste it on flashy names.

Signing Asomungha for a crazy price would have been "sexy," but for just $4mil more than his $12mil/year tag, the Niners got a pretty good SS, a very good WR, a very good center, a good corner, and some other important contributing pieces. That is what this team needs right now, not a large splashy name, but to fill holes and replace Nolan/Singletary guys with Harbaugh/Baalke guys.

It's never smart to over-pay someone. You have to put a value on their service and then try to get the best deal... it will pay-off in the end.

Anyway, all this talk of "lack of interest" just shows ignorance of the abnormal free agency found this year.

We were a flashy name on defense and a good veteran QB away from winning our division. Why blow it up and start over, we've been down that road before? Hell, at one point of the season last year our defense was ranked in the top 10.

And how exactly did the Niners "blow it up?" If anything, they upgraded at every single position they lost except maybe CB and NT, which may or may not be a slight decline from Clements or Franklin. Not only that, they added a #1 WR in Edwards.

What good veteran QB would in this FA would have led the Niners to the promise land? Kolbe, who is an unknown and got crazy money? Vince Young? *cough*

If you think Asomungha or Jonathan Joseph would have led the Niners to the playoffs, I think you are gravely mistaken.
Overrated signings. A lot of those guys are downgrades rather than upgrades. Some are way at the end.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Overrated signings. A lot of those guys are downgrades rather than upgrades. Some are way at the end.

Great analysis, you should work for ESPN.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Overrated signings. A lot of those guys are downgrades rather than upgrades. Some are way at the end.

lol