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if Franklin returns, what does our d-line look like?

if Franklin returns, what does our d-line look like?

  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,040
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by andes14:
For 2011 at least, it almost makes sense to run a 4-3. We lost Spikes so we don't have a bona fide inside 'backer to play next to Willis, and we could then run Franklin and Sope at d-tackle and J. Smith and McDonald at d-end. Though long-term we still are best suited to run a 3-4 with Aldon as an outside 'backer and 3-4 d-end seems to be Justin's best postion.

While that IS an interesting idea, it only points out that the 49ers are still 2 or 3 players away from being able to run either system well. They are stuck in the middle and will continue to be there for another year or two.

How would they be 2 or 3 players from running a 4-3?
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Nothing wrong with investing in the trenches

Agreed, looks like we are using a poor mans version of the lions strategy.. Get our passrush up, and our substandard DB's will look better.
  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,040
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver

You know, the Niners might as well cut their losses, and transition to the 4-3 defense. Put the Smiths on the edge, rotate the three interior lineman, keep Manny as a 4-3 coverage OLB (where he is best suited), and sign a CB who doesn't need to play on an island.
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver

You know, the Niners might as well cut their losses, and transition to the 4-3 defense. Put the Smiths on the edge, rotate the three interior lineman, keep Manny as a 4-3 coverage OLB (where he is best suited), and sign a CB who doesn't need to play on an island.
You posted this while I was writing my post just above. I agree that might be a better solution than continuing with what they now have.

In any case, given the status of the secondary, they better be able to bring a hot pass rush this year or opponents may set an all-time record for passing efficiency. This secondary picture is bad and getting worse. Donatell better have a magic wand .
  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,040
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.


Even in a 3-4, Brooks, Harlson, and Smith will have to cover so it goes both ways and even if we let Franklin go we can have Smith and Soap as the DT's
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.

Agree that we should prefer to keep Aldon Smith and Brooks as down lineman attacking the QB.

We can use both our DTs as 1 gap attackers. Not a big change for Franklin, and he would get subbed out often for Ray anyway.

Yep, if we got Manny back, we'd be all the wiser to put him at SLB and go 4-3.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.

Agree that we should prefer to keep Aldon Smith and Brooks as down lineman attacking the QB.

We can use both our DTs as 1 gap attackers. Not a big change for Franklin, and he would get subbed out often for Ray anyway.

Yep, if we got Manny back, we'd be all the wiser to put him at SLB and go 4-3.

J. Smith----McDonald----Franklin/Sopoaga---A.Smith
------Lawson---------Willis------------Bowman/Haralson

Not a bad front seven anymore. A lot of guys playing their natural positions, and guys like Brooks coming in fresh to play DE.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.

Agree that we should prefer to keep Aldon Smith and Brooks as down lineman attacking the QB.

We can use both our DTs as 1 gap attackers. Not a big change for Franklin, and he would get subbed out often for Ray anyway.

Yep, if we got Manny back, we'd be all the wiser to put him at SLB and go 4-3.

J. Smith----McDonald----Franklin/Sopoaga---A.Smith
------Lawson---------Willis------------Bowman/Haralson

Not a bad front seven anymore. A lot of guys playing their natural positions, and guys like Brooks coming in fresh to play DE.
That makes more sense to me than letting Lawson leave with no replacement and then trying to make a 3-4 work with only half the guys needed.
I have read that Fangio doesn't really use a base of 3/4 or 4/3, but that he creates different looks that keep the O off balance. Some plays only two guys will have their hands down, etc. Also read that he develops his scheme based on player ability, not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Sounds good to me.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
I have read that Fangio doesn't really use a base of 3/4 or 4/3, but that he creates different looks that keep the O off balance. Some plays only two guys will have their hands down, etc. Also read that he develops his scheme based on player ability, not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Sounds good to me.

I have feeling our pass defense will be much improved with all of these different looks but it will open a few more holes in our D vs the run. In this league, I will take it!
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.

Agree that we should prefer to keep Aldon Smith and Brooks as down lineman attacking the QB.

We can use both our DTs as 1 gap attackers. Not a big change for Franklin, and he would get subbed out often for Ray anyway.

Yep, if we got Manny back, we'd be all the wiser to put him at SLB and go 4-3.

J. Smith----McDonald----Franklin/Sopoaga---A.Smith
------Lawson---------Willis------------Bowman/Haralson

Not a bad front seven anymore. A lot of guys playing their natural positions, and guys like Brooks coming in fresh to play DE.

Gives Willis some beef up front to let him roam around, Takes lawson out of the equation for pressure...it wouldn't be the dumbest thing we've done...but I don't know of our coaches will be willing to transition to a 4-3
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pd24:
For the 4-3

McDonald- Soap- Franklin- Smith

Brooks- Willis- Smith

Spencer- Smith/Mays- Goldson/Mays- Brown/Culiver
Neither Brooks nor Aldon have the coverage skills to play OLB, nor has either been proven to be able to play the run well from there.

Franklin is a one gap guy who has never played 4-3. So while he MIGHT be able to play DT in a 4-3,

I would help to bring back Lawson as he would be ideal at OLB 4-3 but I have heard nothing about him coming back.

But honestly, how important is a 3-4 OLB's coverage ability? I think that's the last level of priority in a 3-4 OLB.

All we need are 2 guys who can rush like mofo's, seal the edge, and drop back 5 yards. These guys shouldn't be required to cover 15 yard down field. Holding 3-4 OLB's coverage ability in high regard has been the biggest weakness in defensive philosophy.

Manny Lawson in a 3-4 was no better for us than Julian Peterson in a 3-4 and one of these guys was an awesome 4-3 backer and I'm sure Lawson would do very well in a 4-3.

I wish we use Brooks and Aldon Smith as our two starting OLB's. If Aldon Smith is legit, then we could possibly have a very dynamic front 7 in terms of QB pressure.
Originally posted by Joecool:

But honestly, how important is a 3-4 OLB's coverage ability? I think that's the last level of priority in a 3-4 OLB.


Well think about it. If your 3-4 OLBs are 1 dimensional (meaning say good rushers but lousy in coverage), then offenses can simply gameplan around the full assumption that the LB is coming in on each play. And we all know the point of the 3-4 is "where is the extra rusher coming from?" So, if your OLBs offer no threat in coverage, then it sure can take the mystery out of the scheme.

(ultimately, yes though... you want their primary strength to be in rushing QBs)