Originally posted by 190836:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by 190836:
Some fans are trying to be optimistic and relate this melt down to Walsh's 78-79 era. I like Harbaugh, but he is no Bill Walsh and Jed is not his uncle Eddie. I am wondering what is behind this lack of commitment to improvement of the roster. Are they trying to clear house? Do they really believe in the players that they have? Is Harbaugh's ego so big that he thinks he could win with this team?
So chicken and egg here - how did you know Bill Wash was a "genius" before 1981? How did you know Eddie DeBartolo (who wanted to fire Walsh at one time) was a good owner until the end of 1984? It's funny that most of the questions you're raising are nearly identical to the questions people asked about Walsh. Do I think Harbaugh is Walsh? Maybe - maybe not. However, I'd be okay with a Sean Peyton.
However, since no game has been played and we aren't even looking at a complete roster with the start of the FA signing period being yesterday, I'd say the team is far from the "we believe we can win with this team" assumption.
You and I been going over this for a while. Let me explain this to you in a simple way, so you can understand. I've been watching this team for over thirty five years. No one new if Bill Walsh was a genius when he was hired by Eddie. And yes, I know about Eddie wanting to fire Walsh back in the day. Like I have mentioned earlier. My problem is not so much with Harbaugh. But I do have a problem with Jed and John York. Any intelligent person should question the direction of this organization under this family. Its only fair. You on the other hand, dogmatically defend this ownership that have brought a losing culture and misery to this team. How many years has it been since we had a winning season? How many years has it been since we were in playoffs? I get what you are saying about the Yorks not being the ones who do the drafting and setting the roster. But they are the owners, they set the tone. Its their corporate culture that trickles down throughout the whole organization. If this thing doesn't work the way they expect it to work, what is your excuse then? So far our losses has been grater than our gains. Don't you think so? Try to look at this from a different perspective.
I am looking at it from the other perspective. And I have questioned the direction of the organization before. What annoys me is that people here only think in absolutes - and there in lies the problem. Either someone dogmatically defends a position or they are totally for something, never nuanced. As a result, the discussion here often flirts with the absurd in my opinion.
Let me respond in a very basic way because my response to you was based on what you stated earlier:
I like Harbaugh, but he is no Bill Walsh and Jed is not his uncle Eddie.
Again, a clearly absolute statement without merit given Jed has been in charge of running the football side of this team for 2 years and Harbaugh was hired this past winter. How can you absolutely say either unless you're clairvoyant? Again, I'm not "defending" the organization, just calling out absurd, absolute, baseless statements that have no reliance on fact.
Then your response:
No one new if Bill Walsh was a genius when he was hired by Eddie. And yes, I know about Eddie wanting to fire Walsh back in the day. Like I have mentioned earlier. My problem is not so much with Harbaugh. But I do have a problem with Jed and John York.
So if no one knew Bill Walsh was a genius, then way say "Harbaugh is no Bill Walsh?" Again I have made one statement about defending the "organization", just identifying what I constantly see around here - the exercise of hyperbole.
I understand that people are very critical of John York and then of Jed. I hate losing just like anyone else. I love this team. However, again there's been this hyperbole of blaming the Yorks for the past 8 years of bad football, and if we review season by season of those past 8 years, you'll quickly find that yes the Yorks had SOME of the blame, but what was placed on the filed was the result of a more shared responsibility. I know it's easy to say "the York Culture" and I know Cohn, Ira Miller and other old school 49er beat writers have never forgiven John for the whole Dennis Erickson thing and the "players should buy their own water" and "coaches will have to share hotel rooms" kind of thing. Unfortunately those actions have become more legend than daily football operational fact.
Yorks not being the ones who do the drafting and setting the roster. But they are the owners, they set the tone. Its their corporate culture that trickles down throughout the whole organization.
I'm looking for the place where "The Yorks" - both Jed and John have said we want to lose, we don't want a stadium, we don't want to do what it takes to win. What does that mean in your opinion? Winning at all cost? Does that mean we sign every popular free-agent out there? What does "corporate culture" mean? I do agree with you that both John and Jed have made some disastrous hires, Donahue and Singletary respectively. However, I find it ironic that the most disastrous hire, Donahue who slashed and cut almost every vet on the team was a Walsh recommendation, wait no strong term - heir apparent. It took many, many seasons to build the team after Donahue's disastrous GM-ing. I'm not trying to defend the Yorks because Donahue was their hire, but just trying to move away from the hyperbole-speak.
I've questioned the direction of this organization - but I've questioned specific roles. I was a BIG critic of Scott McCloughan while many here defended him relentlessly. I was a huge critic of Nolan and then Singletary - both men were not ready to be HC in an offensive-oriented NFL. I was a huge Donahue critic and nearly everything he did with the team. And when the Yorks were at fault for these hires, I questioned whether there was enough pro football know-how in the organization.
Again a nuanced response - not so easy as on/off or black/white; the reason why I am not reacting as others have because I thought the Harbaugh hire was a huge indicator of the change in direction for this organization. Gone is the McCloughan philosophy of "only get athletes" (which is why we had so many freaking projects) to a philosophy of grabbing football players. The coaches Harbaugh marshaled to this team is impressive for any NFL squad. Given the shear bona fides of this coaching staff, none of which HAD to come here, I can't see during the 2nd day of FA, that they've had no input. However, to imply that all that's transpired over the past week is because of "The Yorks" or because of a bad culture that's somehow infected Harbaugh and all position coaches within a month is a little bit of a leap for me.
Again I understand the passion of the other side, I just don't agree with the hyperbole.
All that being said, please don't take my response as either a disregard or disrespect of opposing opinions in this forum. I know I can become easily excitable about this, but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode right now.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Jul 30, 2011 at 15:34:02 ]