Do free agents want to play for the 49ers ?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by susweel:
Been thinking about this free agency and I've come to the conclusion that most free agents dont want to play for the 49ers.



The team hasn't been relevant in the NFL for almost a decade.
Ownership is known as cheap asses around the league.
Rookie HC and rookie GM.
Worst stadium in the NFL.
Cost of living is high and state taxes are high.


The only way we really can get top notch players is if we over pay.


am I wrong on this one ???

Better questions - Are free agents historically primary contributors to a team's success for the most part in the NFL?

History says, "Generally, no."

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Just for yucks, I put together a little worksheet showing what the salary caps would need to be for every NFL team based on cost of living in the area. The COLA was taken from this site and unlike many I looked at, factors in state and local taxes in addition to other major costs (food/utilities/etc). Of course this is an inexact science and based on generalized variables, but I think it's still interesting, and may help to demonstrate something that will affect the decisions of free agents when considering a new team. Jacksonville has the lowest aggregate costs of any of the NFL cities, and I used them as the base with a $120MM cap. I also factored in nearby cities where NFL players are likely to reside, so, for instance, I used Santa Clara for the 49ers, Scottsdale for the Cardinals, etc.

Sorry I don't know how to format this as a table in this forum, but you'll get the idea.

Team Equivalent Cap

Arizona 148,176,127

Atlanta 153,838,116

Baltimore 146,402,255

Buffalo 158,963,363

Carolina 167,678,536

Chicago 136,423,043

Cincinnatti 176,307,161

Cleveland 175,644,595

Dallas 120,047,274

Denver 145,778,236

Detroit 142,127,216

Green Bay 158,359,708

Houston 120,041,456

Indianapolis 142,650,868

Jacksonville 120,000,000

Kansas City 125,350,708

Miami 120,040,001

Minnesota 165,188,278

New England 149,728,901

New Orleans 146,734,628

NY Giants 159,342,283

NY Jets 159,975,757

Oakland 174,644,565

Philadelphia 135,256,462

Pittsburgh 140,930,089

San Diego 174,426,377

San Francisco 174,550,744

Seattle 120,118,549

St. Louis 125,346,344

Tampa Bay 120,005,091

Tennessee 120,004,364

Washington 174,427,831

Philadelphia 135,256,462

Pittsburgh 140,930,089

San Diego 174,426,377

San Francisco 174,550,744

I'm not sure what this proves but that's pretty good company no?

So the 49ers have to spend more than any other team in the league, just to stay even. Now you have to figure in the chance to actually win some games.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by susweel:
Another thing I think is hurting is that most of our coaches are from college so they have no ties to nfl players. Many free agents are following coordinators they have worked with in the past.

agree but in this economy nothing money can not fix

that's where the Yorks come into play because they refuse to over pay, but the only way we can get players is by over paying

That won't work either. Over-paying and keeping expensive, over-the-hill vets back in the late '90s is what got us into salary cap he!!.

This won't get fixed until Harbaugh and Co demonstrate they can coach in the NFL and the roster is gradually built up with good draft choices.

The biggest problem we have is the history of very poor position coaches under Nolan and Singletary. Good teams take 3rd and 4th round players and develop them into high quality players. The 49ers got lucky when Gore dropped, but other than him, they have not developed ANY quality players.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by susweel:
Another thing I think is hurting is that most of our coaches are from college so they have no ties to nfl players. Many free agents are following coordinators they have worked with in the past.

agree but in this economy nothing money can not fix

that's where the Yorks come into play because they refuse to over pay, but the only way we can get players is by over paying

That won't work either. Over-paying and keeping expensive, over-the-hill vets back in the late '90s is what got us into salary cap he!!.

This won't get fixed until Harbaugh and Co demonstrate they can coach in the NFL and the roster is gradually built up with good draft choices.

The biggest problem we have is the history of very poor position coaches under Nolan and Singletary. Good teams take 3rd and 4th round players and develop them into high quality players. The 49ers got lucky when Gore dropped, but other than him, they have not developed ANY quality players.

I Agree With These Statements! We have done a very poor job of turning our later picks into anything other then average or less than average players.

We need these guys Coached Up! Hopefully this changes under the new guys. Only problem is, when you suck for so long, the fan base gets fickle. We are tired of being sucky every year!

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49erfaninPA:

Originally posted by susweel:
Been thinking about this free agency and I've come to the conclusion that most free agents dont want to play for the 49ers.



The team hasn't been relevant in the NFL for almost a decade.
Ownership is known as cheap asses around the league.
Rookie HC and rookie GM.
Worst stadium in the NFL.
Cost of living is high and state taxes are high.


The only way we really can get top notch players is if we over pay.


am I wrong on this one ???

Nope

After reading Plaxico's reasons for joining the Jets you can only conclude that free agents see NO REASON WHATSOEVER to come to SF. This is rock bottom.

Excerpt from today's Philly.com news report:

One theme throughout the day: Free agents are willing to take less money to join the Eagles. Banner said that cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha left money on the table elsewhere because the Eagles were his top choice if the deal was right; then Roseman said he had the feeling that Jenkins, too, could have gotten more money elsewhere.
So if the 49ers offered more, maybe some guys would have signed here. Then winning becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

The new Eagles include Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Jason Babin, and Vince Young. New 49ers include David Akers and .......

The theme of the day included the players' desire to play for a winner. They also want to play with a winning quarterback in Michael Vick and a winning coach. We have no quarterback, and while I think hiring Jim Harbaugh is the right move, he is unproven in the NFL.

"Well, it's dramatic," Banner said earlier in the day. "We went in with an aggressive plan. . . . There was a competition for all of the players that we were able to acquire. So we've got a little bit of good fortune. And Trent's plan was to hide in the bushes? Sometimes, you need to make your own breaks.

"We were very aggressive about it. And I think we're to a point where this is one of the more desirable places to play in the league. Sadly, we use to be able to say this. If Eddie was still running the show, I believe he would have looked these guys right into the eyes and said 'We are going to win, with or without you. If you truly want to be part of something special, sign here.' Trent can't even get into the room.

"You have a lot of players that want to win a Super Bowl, and they view this as a place they have a real chance to do that at this point." Ugh, this can't happen. Life around here would suck if this comes true.

And to think, when the Eagles owner bought this team, he said they wanted to be like the gold standard franchise in this league, the 49ers..

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20110731_Weaver_displeased_over_way_he_was_cut.html?cmpid=124488749

It's a harsh reality. And most of the fans on here bash the GM but you can't. Prior management / GM made some really bad draft moves.
Most of these FA's high named ones I'm sure wouldn't want to play for SF no matter the money. Just look at where they have gone. To playoff calibar teams.
I must agree that building through the draft is a smart idea & that seems to be the theme here. Pay for our own players.
So far I don't blame the Niners for letting clements, spikes, baas go. Ar would have over paid.

Originally posted by Bobbi9698:

Originally posted by jogr49:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by fakers23:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
mattbarrows Matt Barrows
Trent Baalke on FAs: “They’re looking for situations that bring them into a winning place. And that’s what we need to establish."


Question answered: NO, they don't want to play for the 49ers.

This is what I've been trying to say for the past 48 hours. We finally hear it from the man himself. It's not that ownership is cheap. The marquee free agents do not want our money. We need to establish a winning culture by drafting well first, before we make a splash in free agency. Don't believe me? Look at the Colts, Steelers, Eagles, Patriots, Packers.

A little problem with your theory. If the team is picking top 5 again. I don't see players eager to join them next year either. You can't build a winner by making your roster thinner.

It is not a forgone conclusion that we will be picking top 5. Look, I'm disappointed with our lack of involvement in FA just like everyone else. But the "Ownership is cheap!!!" and "We are tanking the season!!!!" and "Why can't we sign any of the top free agents when they clearly have better options??!!!" garbage that's been spewed on here is getting old fast. We have replacements lined up at every position with exception to C and CB. There is still time and players left in FA who could fill these positions. Everyone needs to chill.

The issue is that now the FA process is in the next tier below the premium guys and Niners still are not doing anything. A casual fan would be upset when they see our supposed #1 WR and #1 RB not around, no center, no real CBs and no action by the front office. Cmon now, no one really thought Niners would grab the top FAs, but at least be in the mix for what you need posiition wise to field a team !

One thing this philosophy ignores is--Arizona finished worse than we did with NO QB and they got FAs---and good ones. this is all a big excuse for the absolute incompetence by the Yorks for not putting in the infrastructure necessary to do the job and personally with Trent Baalke who cannot sell heating to the Eskimos. We should be going after what we can get now or we are looking at years and years of losing. Baalke has tainted the Niners in my view.

Arizona has Fitzgerald, they have proved that they can win with the players that they have. It was a common belief that Arizona was so bad last year because they did not have ANY QB, and that any semi legit QB would have led them to at least 9 wins.

Now our problem is that no body knwos if Harbaugh can be succesfull im the NFL, teh coaching so far has been bad enough, if he can turn Alex arround and if not if Kaepernick is ready to play in the NFL.

To many question marks for a solid WR to come to us.

Next thing defence, a hot-cold defence, unable to stop anyone on crucial downs, secondary that gets exposed, questions on saftey, CB, passrush.

Ehm now why would some come to us.

This season has to answer a few of these questions untill then we will lose any kind of big or semi big name to other teams.

If Harbough is able to turn this team arround next year it´ll be much easyer to get bigger name FA.

Would you? No of course not free agency was invented for players to get off teams like this one, it is up to the front office to rebuild this team with youth. Rebuild it to the point that we can attract free agents.

Originally posted by fakers23:

Originally posted by jogr49:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by fakers23:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
mattbarrows Matt Barrows
Trent Baalke on FAs: “They’re looking for situations that bring them into a winning place. And that’s what we need to establish."


Question answered: NO, they don't want to play for the 49ers.

This is what I've been trying to say for the past 48 hours. We finally hear it from the man himself. It's not that ownership is cheap. The marquee free agents do not want our money. We need to establish a winning culture by drafting well first, before we make a splash in free agency. Don't believe me? Look at the Colts, Steelers, Eagles, Patriots, Packers.

The guys in the "second tier" are not worth the money they are asking. Better off now to focus on developing the many young players on the current roster rather than spending time teaching the system to a new guy who may not even be here in another year or two.



A little problem with your theory. If the team is picking top 5 again. I don't see players eager to join them next year either. You can't build a winner by making your roster thinner.

It is not a forgone conclusion that we will be picking top 5. Look, I'm disappointed with our lack of involvement in FA just like everyone else. But the "Ownership is cheap!!!" and "We are tanking the season!!!!" and "Why can't we sign any of the top free agents when they clearly have better options??!!!" garbage that's been spewed on here is getting old fast. We have replacements lined up at every position with exception to C and CB. There is still time and players left in FA who could fill these positions. Everyone needs to chill.

The issue is that now the FA process is in the next tier below the premium guys and Niners still are not doing anything. A casual fan would be upset when they see our supposed #1 WR and #1 RB not around, no center, no real CBs and no action by the front office. Cmon now, no one really thought Niners would grab the top FAs, but at least be in the mix for what you need posiition wise to field a team !

Thank you! That what everyone is saying.

The "second tier" isn't worth the money. Better to develop the young players on the current roster than spending time on guys who may not be here in a year or two.

[ Edited by dj43 on Jul 31, 2011 at 10:02:10 ]

The 49ers did the right thing by not overpaying for some of the first line FAs. They now still have their payroll in balance rather than having guys like Willis and Vernon demanding big extensions to keep them up with someone like Nnamdi.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49erfaninPA:
Excerpt from today's Philly.com news report:

One theme throughout the day: Free agents are willing to take less money to join the Eagles. Banner said that cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha left money on the table elsewhere because the Eagles were his top choice if the deal was right; then Roseman said he had the feeling that Jenkins, too, could have gotten more money elsewhere.
So if the 49ers offered more, maybe some guys would have signed here. Then winning becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

The new Eagles include Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Jason Babin, and Vince Young. New 49ers include David Akers and .......

The theme of the day included the players' desire to play for a winner. They also want to play with a winning quarterback in Michael Vick and a winning coach. We have no quarterback, and while I think hiring Jim Harbaugh is the right move, he is unproven in the NFL.

"Well, it's dramatic," Banner said earlier in the day. "We went in with an aggressive plan. . . . There was a competition for all of the players that we were able to acquire. So we've got a little bit of good fortune. And Trent's plan was to hide in the bushes? Sometimes, you need to make your own breaks.

"We were very aggressive about it. And I think we're to a point where this is one of the more desirable places to play in the league. Sadly, we use to be able to say this. If Eddie was still running the show, I believe he would have looked these guys right into the eyes and said 'We are going to win, with or without you. If you truly want to be part of something special, sign here.' Trent can't even get into the room.

"You have a lot of players that want to win a Super Bowl, and they view this as a place they have a real chance to do that at this point." Ugh, this can't happen. Life around here would suck if this comes true.

And to think, when the Eagles owner bought this team, he said they wanted to be like the gold standard franchise in this league, the 49ers..

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20110731_Weaver_displeased_over_way_he_was_cut.html?cmpid=124488749

This article is true, but the conclusions made from it are not.

1) The 49ers of old attracted FA because they won WITHOUT them for a very long time. The coach, drafted players who fit his scheme, demanded perfection, team won games. Eddie who at times wanted to fire Walsh, treated all his players like family. No salary cap.

2)If Eddie was still running the show, he would still have to follow the salary cap like every other team. I think the difference between Eddie D and Jed/John is that we would bring in a coach who possibly could have altered the trajectory of the W-L record.

3)Eagles were aggressive because they could be - players WANTED to go to Philadelphia and left money on the table with other teams. The payoff for winning is that people late in their careers want to go to a winning team. Why is this surprising?

So are you angry that the 49ers aren't a winning franchise that would attract FA or are you mad at Baalke because he hasn't put together a winning organization yet? In either case, how is this Baalke's fault if a player doesn't want to come to a perceived losing team? It's like blaming the hiring manager for the company's poor financial performance in turning down a job where company stability a key factor in your decision-making.

THANK you! I am not happy with the current 49er reality either, but how did all this Baalke hate get riled up? We have been in a downward spiral since Donahue, and we got him on BW's recommendaion. No one is perfect, but we have so much hero-worship for for some people, tha we have o point blame elsewhere. Donahue would not have been hired had Walsh not hand-picked him. We would not have had the 2004 fire sale if it wasn't for Donahue. If Donahue/Erickson hadn't failed so miserably, we wouldn't have needed a new coach, and the Nolan/Smith/Singletary?Mcloughan mess never would have started. It was a sh*t sandwich before Baalke showed up, but fans are mad now, they want a superbowl now, and Harbaugh was a great college coach who knew BW, so we can't be mad at him, even though he was part of the FA strategy, and supports it fully.

I have no issue with this approach to FA. It would have been cool to get Nnamdi, but I really wanted someone who is talented, moderately experienced, and affordable (that's why I wanted Marshall). Teams that spend huge in FA usually don't get the value they wanted out of their investment, and they end up having greater difficulty re-signing their own players when FA shows up. I don't want to be the Cowboys or the Redskins. I want to be like the Packers. The only way that works is if you draft talent, coach it up well, and resign the irreplaceable players and replace the rest through the draft when they reach their second contract. We haven't developed our talent in the past, but we have a new staff, and we have no reason to doubt this staff's ability to coach. It could take a while, but I don't want to through the bank at a decent season, just to blow it all up in a couple years when we return to cap hell.

Just my two cents

Originally posted by WRATHman44:


THANK you! I am not happy with the current 49er reality either, but how did all this Baalke hate get riled up? We have been in a downward spiral since Donahue, and we got him on BW's recommendaion. No one is perfect, but we have so much hero-worship for for some people, tha we have o point blame elsewhere. Donahue would not have been hired had Walsh not hand-picked him. We would not have had the 2004 fire sale if it wasn't for Donahue. If Donahue/Erickson hadn't failed so miserably, we wouldn't have needed a new coach, and the Nolan/Smith/Singletary?Mcloughan mess never would have started. It was a sh*t sandwich before Baalke showed up, but fans are mad now, they want a superbowl now, and Harbaugh was a great college coach who knew BW, so we can't be mad at him, even though he was part of the FA strategy, and supports it fully.

I have no issue with this approach to FA. It would have been cool to get Nnamdi, but I really wanted someone who is talented, moderately experienced, and affordable (that's why I wanted Marshall). Teams that spend huge in FA usually don't get the value they wanted out of their investment, and they end up having greater difficulty re-signing their own players when FA shows up. I don't want to be the Cowboys or the Redskins. I want to be like the Packers. The only way that works is if you draft talent, coach it up well, and resign the irreplaceable players and replace the rest through the draft when they reach their second contract. We haven't developed our talent in the past, but we have a new staff, and we have no reason to doubt this staff's ability to coach. It could take a while, but I don't want to through the bank at a decent season, just to blow it all up in a couple years when we return to cap hell.

Just my two cents

Spot on

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49erfaninPA:
Excerpt from today's Philly.com news report:

One theme throughout the day: Free agents are willing to take less money to join the Eagles. Banner said that cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha left money on the table elsewhere because the Eagles were his top choice if the deal was right; then Roseman said he had the feeling that Jenkins, too, could have gotten more money elsewhere.
So if the 49ers offered more, maybe some guys would have signed here. Then winning becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

The new Eagles include Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Jason Babin, and Vince Young. New 49ers include David Akers and .......

The theme of the day included the players' desire to play for a winner. They also want to play with a winning quarterback in Michael Vick and a winning coach. We have no quarterback, and while I think hiring Jim Harbaugh is the right move, he is unproven in the NFL.

"Well, it's dramatic," Banner said earlier in the day. "We went in with an aggressive plan. . . . There was a competition for all of the players that we were able to acquire. So we've got a little bit of good fortune. And Trent's plan was to hide in the bushes? Sometimes, you need to make your own breaks.

"We were very aggressive about it. And I think we're to a point where this is one of the more desirable places to play in the league. Sadly, we use to be able to say this. If Eddie was still running the show, I believe he would have looked these guys right into the eyes and said 'We are going to win, with or without you. If you truly want to be part of something special, sign here.' Trent can't even get into the room.

"You have a lot of players that want to win a Super Bowl, and they view this as a place they have a real chance to do that at this point." Ugh, this can't happen. Life around here would suck if this comes true.

And to think, when the Eagles owner bought this team, he said they wanted to be like the gold standard franchise in this league, the 49ers..

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20110731_Weaver_displeased_over_way_he_was_cut.html?cmpid=124488749

This article is true, but the conclusions made from it are not.

1) The 49ers of old attracted FA because they won WITHOUT them for a very long time. The coach, drafted players who fit his scheme, demanded perfection, team won games. Eddie who at times wanted to fire Walsh, treated all his players like family. No salary cap.

2)If Eddie was still running the show, he would still have to follow the salary cap like every other team. I think the difference between Eddie D and Jed/John is that we would bring in a coach who possibly could have altered the trajectory of the W-L record.

3)Eagles were aggressive because they could be - players WANTED to go to Philadelphia and left money on the table with other teams. The payoff for winning is that people late in their careers want to go to a winning team. Why is this surprising?

So are you angry that the 49ers aren't a winning franchise that would attract FA or are you mad at Baalke because he hasn't put together a winning organization yet? In either case, how is this Baalke's fault if a player doesn't want to come to a perceived losing team? It's like blaming the hiring manager for the company's poor financial performance in turning down a job where company stability a key factor in your decision-making.

THANK you! I am not happy with the current 49er reality either, but how did all this Baalke hate get riled up? We have been in a downward spiral since Donahue, and we got him on BW's recommendaion. No one is perfect, but we have so much hero-worship for for some people, tha we have o point blame elsewhere. Donahue would not have been hired had Walsh not hand-picked him. We would not have had the 2004 fire sale if it wasn't for Donahue. If Donahue/Erickson hadn't failed so miserably, we wouldn't have needed a new coach, and the Nolan/Smith/Singletary?Mcloughan mess never would have started. It was a sh*t sandwich before Baalke showed up, but fans are mad now, they want a superbowl now, and Harbaugh was a great college coach who knew BW, so we can't be mad at him, even though he was part of the FA strategy, and supports it fully.

I have no issue with this approach to FA. It would have been cool to get Nnamdi, but I really wanted someone who is talented, moderately experienced, and affordable (that's why I wanted Marshall). Teams that spend huge in FA usually don't get the value they wanted out of their investment, and they end up having greater difficulty re-signing their own players when FA shows up. I don't want to be the Cowboys or the Redskins. I want to be like the Packers. The only way that works is if you draft talent, coach it up well, and resign the irreplaceable players and replace the rest through the draft when they reach their second contract. We haven't developed our talent in the past, but we have a new staff, and we have no reason to doubt this staff's ability to coach. It could take a while, but I don't want to through the bank at a decent season, just to blow it all up in a couple years when we return to cap hell.

Just my two cents

WRA I agree with you! I don't know what people on this forum expected, but my suspicion is that there expectations were way above what reality is? Harbaugh and Baalke did not inherits a SB winning roster or even a playoff making roster for that matter! It will take time and patience which a lot of Zoners have none of!

Dont worry guys Franklin is flying in today to maybe sign with us whoo close one franchise is saved