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How did Singletary....

get the reputation as a guy that does nothing but run the ball? Gore averaged fewer carries per game with Singletary as HC in 09/10 than he did in 06/07/08 with Turner/Hostler/Martz running the offense...I never understood how there are all these articles talking about how all Sing did was run, run, run despite 8 and 9 men in the box. The stats just don't back that up.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:38 PM ]
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down
Originally posted by Allx9er:
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down

Injury has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about carries per game...so if he misses games, that doesn't skew it.

As for extending drives, that's a moot point also- we passed 514 times per season in 09/10. From '06-'08 we passed 488.7 times per season...therefore we actually passed the ball at a higher rate than under Turner/Hostler/Martz.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:56 PM ]
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down

Injury has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about carries per game...so if he misses games, that doesn't skew it.

As for extending drives, that's a moot point also- we passed 514 times per season in 09/10. From '06-'08 we passed 488.7 times per season...therefore we actually passed the ball at a higher rate than under Turner/Hostler/Martz.

look at our average plays per game with Sing and theres your answer
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down

Injury has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about carries per game...so if he misses games, that doesn't skew it.

As for extending drives, that's a moot point also- we passed 514 times per season in 09/10. From '06-'08 we passed 488.7 times per season...therefore we actually passed the ball at a higher rate than under Turner/Hostler/Martz.

Is this really that difficult to figure out?

It wasn't how often he ran the ball, it's when and how he ran the ball. The when was when the other team expected it. The how, was the same f*cking way.

Most teams would prefer to run the ball more. When you win games you're going to run more often than pass, when you're losing, which we did quite often under Singletary you pass more since you're behind.

Running on first and 2nd down then having to throw on 3rd and long is not smart.

There's also the fact that Singletary routinely said how he wants to hit people in the mouth and run the ball...
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down

Injury has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about carries per game...so if he misses games, that doesn't skew it.

As for extending drives, that's a moot point also- we passed 514 times per season in 09/10. From '06-'08 we passed 488.7 times per season...therefore we actually passed the ball at a higher rate than under Turner/Hostler/Martz.

Is this really that difficult to figure out?

It wasn't how often he ran the ball, it's when and how he ran the ball. The when was when the other team expected it. The how, was the same f*cking way.

Most teams would prefer to run the ball more. When you win games you're going to run more often than pass, when you're losing, which we did quite often under Singletary you pass more since you're behind.

Running on first and 2nd down then having to throw on 3rd and long is not smart.

There's also the fact that Singletary routinely said how he wants to hit people in the mouth and run the ball...

I know he said that, the stats just don't back it up. And it's not like the only times he would pass was when we were playing catch-up as Gore had nearly as many 2nd half carries as 1st half carries over the last 2 years. I agree with you that oftentimes it was predictable, but in terms of sheer quantity and saying ALL HE DID was run, well, that's simply not true because we passed more and ran less the last 2 years than we did the previous 3.
  • Otter
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,936
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down

Injury has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about carries per game...so if he misses games, that doesn't skew it.

As for extending drives, that's a moot point also- we passed 514 times per season in 09/10. From '06-'08 we passed 488.7 times per season...therefore we actually passed the ball at a higher rate than under Turner/Hostler/Martz.

Is this really that difficult to figure out?

It wasn't how often he ran the ball, it's when and how he ran the ball. The when was when the other team expected it. The how, was the same f*cking way.

Most teams would prefer to run the ball more. When you win games you're going to run more often than pass, when you're losing, which we did quite often under Singletary you pass more since you're behind.

Running on first and 2nd down then having to throw on 3rd and long is not smart.

There's also the fact that Singletary routinely said how he wants to hit people in the mouth and run the ball...

I know he said that, the stats just don't back it up. And it's not like the only times he would pass was when we were playing catch-up as Gore had nearly as many 2nd half carries as 1st half carries over the last 2 years. I agree with you that oftentimes it was predictable, but in terms of sheer quantity and saying ALL HE DID was run, well, that's simply not true because we passed more and ran less the last 2 years than we did the previous 3.

Look at the film. And you'll see why he has the reputation, regardless of what the stats say. We ran a LOT. And it isn't a fair comparison to look at Gore's carries per game and compare that to the number of passes over the entire season.
Under Walsh the 9ers passed to open up the run but they also ran when passes were expected. Singletary told everyone in the world that the 9ers were going to play smash mouth football and started every game running up the middle on first and second down. So every third and long it was time to pass. Then in the second half, with the team down a score they had to open it up.

This is my recollection and not supported by stats, so make of it what you will.
cuz u dont run the ball when ur down by 21 points...
also why stats are often misleading.
[ Edited by Sinsation on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:06 PM ]
He was one of the worst coaches in the history of NFL football.... and we thought Nolan could not be surpassed.... .... I wouldn't jump on Harbaugh's jock either.... there is something sketchy about the guy.... The Broncos and Dolphins knew better....
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
couple reasons why gore didnt get the carries...
1)injury
2)cant get a lot of carries if you cant extend drives
3)cant extend drives if you have a bone head scheme
that includes running your rb into 9 man fronts down after down

Injury has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about carries per game...so if he misses games, that doesn't skew it.

As for extending drives, that's a moot point also- we passed 514 times per season in 09/10. From '06-'08 we passed 488.7 times per season...therefore we actually passed the ball at a higher rate than under Turner/Hostler/Martz.

Is this really that difficult to figure out?

It wasn't how often he ran the ball, it's when and how he ran the ball. The when was when the other team expected it. The how, was the same f*cking way.

Most teams would prefer to run the ball more. When you win games you're going to run more often than pass, when you're losing, which we did quite often under Singletary you pass more since you're behind.

Running on first and 2nd down then having to throw on 3rd and long is not smart.

There's also the fact that Singletary routinely said how he wants to hit people in the mouth and run the ball...

I know he said that, the stats just don't back it up. And it's not like the only times he would pass was when we were playing catch-up as Gore had nearly as many 2nd half carries as 1st half carries over the last 2 years. I agree with you that oftentimes it was predictable, but in terms of sheer quantity and saying ALL HE DID was run, well, that's simply not true because we passed more and ran less the last 2 years than we did the previous 3.

Look at the film. And you'll see why he has the reputation, regardless of what the stats say. We ran a LOT. And it isn't a fair comparison to look at Gore's carries per game and compare that to the number of passes over the entire season.

Fine, then look at passes per game. On a per game basis, we passed more and ran less PER GAME in '09/'10 than we did in '06-'08
I also read an article that Sando did about gore and how ofer he actually saw 8 or more in the box. surprisingly he ranked like 16th out of 23 RB that saw more than 23 carries with 8 or more in the box. Gore had 23 carries in 11 games. but he led the leage with an avg of 6yds. I though he saw the 8 man fronts more than twice a game. perGore stats

The problem with sing was he only called 1 play and that was gore up the middle.
Originally posted by Sinsation:
cuz u dont run the ball when ur down by 21 points...
also why stats are often misleading.

Again, he only had slightly more 1st half carries than 2nd half carries. Also, in terms of being down 21, we won 6.3 games per season from '06-'08 and we won 7 games per season in '09/'10. So we were actually a better team these last 2 years than the previous 3...so the "down by 21 points" argument isn't very logical because that was even more applicable the previous 3 years, and we still passed more and ran less.
Originally posted by SF4EVA:
I also read an article that Sando did about gore and how ofer he actually saw 8 or more in the box. surprisingly he ranked like 16th out of 23 RB that saw more than 23 carries with 8 or more in the box. Gore had 23 carries in 11 games. but he led the leage with an avg of 6yds. I though he saw the 8 man fronts more than twice a game. perGore stats

The problem with sing was he only called 1 play and that was gore up the middle.

I agree. There was little creativity in the DESIGN of the runs. That being said, my point is that the perception of the QUANTITY/RATE of running is way overblown.
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