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The Official Harbaugh Era QB competition!

Sometimes I think we are watching (and remembering) different games!
  • mike
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,827
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Up to this point our discussion was just breaking down the 91 rating. I get it. If you start at the point were competition becomes soft quarterback rating tends to improve.

Go look at Josh Freeman's QBR when he was playing the better teams.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12473/josh-freeman

... and this is with NFL quality offensive coach Olson... a well established coordinator and QB coach. This is also with an OL that ranked in the top half of the league in regards to pass protection.


.... and no one minded when Shaun Hill played "decent" football against soft teams down the stretch in 2008.

... and LOL at you LOL at me too, so take that!

( see? Kinda obnoxious and juvenile, huh )

Over the course of the year Freeman without a doubt played better than Alex. 95.9 quarterback rating and 9 turnovers in a full season. Alex had 12 turnovers in 11 games. Yeah they only beat teams that missed the playoffs, but that's my point regarding Smith. Tampa wasn't ready to be a playoff team but Freeman carried them to every win they possibly could have gotten. Just not the case with us. Losing to New Orleans and Atlanta is one thing, but you can't get blown out by Seattle and lose to Carolina. Different can of worms.

I'm not quite sure how good Tampa's line is but stats can be deceiving. Is it just based off sacks or are pressure included too. Freeman is great at escaping the rush and dumping it off. His body frame and athleticism allows him to escape more rushes than your average qb.

You're overrating Olson. Nothing against him but his resume is not Norv Turner's. His track record as an offensive coordinator was limited. Scott Linehan called the offense for the Rams to late in the season when they finished 6th, and when he did hand it over to Olson the following year it regressed to 24th.

You must of forgotten what the zone was like back then. It was evenly divided between Smith and Hill supporters and yes level of competition was brought up with Shaun Hill. I know I talked about it.

You don't think blount played a little part in their success?...Lets see here: 17th passing game in the league, 8th rushing game...

We had a s**t season that basically had everything wrong you could possibly ask to go wrong(s**t coaches, instable o-line, then alex got hurt, then we stuck in even s**ttier troy...then gore got hurt) Of course we lost to some s**t teams.

The only great thing about freeman is he plays a clean game with low turnovers, otherwise he's a 215 yd/game QB just like mr.alex smith. Good enough to make the key throws to win you the game but won't carry a game by himself either. You're massively discrediting the 1400 yds+8tds they got from their rbs.

I think alex could definitely put up a year like freeman's with a solid line and coordinator that has some brains between his ears. That's about as good as you need to be to make the playoffs if you've got a good run game going and decent pass defense.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:


First off we were relatively injury free last year. All of Smith's weapons were healthy through out the year.


Was happy to read and not post until these comments. Heitmann out all year and Gore out in Game 12 for the rest of the season...when Smith was making his run and having a decent QB rating.

Center is one of the most important positions for continuity with the QB and without Gore teams knew that it was up to Smith and the passing game to win, so they could scheme against the pass. Unless you think they didn't notice Gore's absence.

And as far as Smith's weapons, what exacty are they past Gore? VD and...oh yeah, the underwhelming WR core.

Are you really arguing that the 9ers were a formidable team except for Smith?

Heittman got injured on June 30th. We had more time to address that problem than we do now with Baas leaving via fa. Plus it was a move most wanted to see anyways.

Regarding Gore's injury. You're talking about 2 games were it actually effected Alex. Seattle and he played great, and SD were we had no chance in Hell to win in any scenario. Arizona was meaningless preseason game, and St Louis Alex didn't get in to the 4th quarter when we were in complete passing mode.
Originally posted by mike:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Up to this point our discussion was just breaking down the 91 rating. I get it. If you start at the point were competition becomes soft quarterback rating tends to improve.

Go look at Josh Freeman's QBR when he was playing the better teams.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12473/josh-freeman

... and this is with NFL quality offensive coach Olson... a well established coordinator and QB coach. This is also with an OL that ranked in the top half of the league in regards to pass protection.


.... and no one minded when Shaun Hill played "decent" football against soft teams down the stretch in 2008.

... and LOL at you LOL at me too, so take that!

( see? Kinda obnoxious and juvenile, huh )

Over the course of the year Freeman without a doubt played better than Alex. 95.9 quarterback rating and 9 turnovers in a full season. Alex had 12 turnovers in 11 games. Yeah they only beat teams that missed the playoffs, but that's my point regarding Smith. Tampa wasn't ready to be a playoff team but Freeman carried them to every win they possibly could have gotten. Just not the case with us. Losing to New Orleans and Atlanta is one thing, but you can't get blown out by Seattle and lose to Carolina. Different can of worms.

I'm not quite sure how good Tampa's line is but stats can be deceiving. Is it just based off sacks or are pressure included too. Freeman is great at escaping the rush and dumping it off. His body frame and athleticism allows him to escape more rushes than your average qb.

You're overrating Olson. Nothing against him but his resume is not Norv Turner's. His track record as an offensive coordinator was limited. Scott Linehan called the offense for the Rams to late in the season when they finished 6th, and when he did hand it over to Olson the following year it regressed to 24th.

You must of forgotten what the zone was like back then. It was evenly divided between Smith and Hill supporters and yes level of competition was brought up with Shaun Hill. I know I talked about it.

You don't think blount played a little part in their success?...Lets see here: 17th passing game in the league, 8th rushing game...

We had a s**t season that basically had everything wrong you could possibly ask to go wrong(s**t coaches, instable o-line, then alex got hurt, then we stuck in even s**ttier troy...then gore got hurt) Of course we lost to some s**t teams.

The only great thing about freeman is he plays a clean game with low turnovers, otherwise he's a 215 yd/game QB just like mr.alex smith. Good enough to make the key throws to win you the game but won't carry a game by himself either. You're massively discrediting the 1400 yds+8tds they got from their rbs.

I think alex could definitely put up a year like freeman's with a solid line and coordinator that has some brains between his ears. That's about as good as you need to be to make the playoffs if you've got a good run game going and decent pass defense.

Youre missing the point. Its not the yards Freeman throws for its the low number of turnovers. He's bette than Aex now and will always be better.
Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by mike:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Up to this point our discussion was just breaking down the 91 rating. I get it. If you start at the point were competition becomes soft quarterback rating tends to improve.

Go look at Josh Freeman's QBR when he was playing the better teams.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12473/josh-freeman

... and this is with NFL quality offensive coach Olson... a well established coordinator and QB coach. This is also with an OL that ranked in the top half of the league in regards to pass protection.


.... and no one minded when Shaun Hill played "decent" football against soft teams down the stretch in 2008.

... and LOL at you LOL at me too, so take that!

( see? Kinda obnoxious and juvenile, huh )

Over the course of the year Freeman without a doubt played better than Alex. 95.9 quarterback rating and 9 turnovers in a full season. Alex had 12 turnovers in 11 games. Yeah they only beat teams that missed the playoffs, but that's my point regarding Smith. Tampa wasn't ready to be a playoff team but Freeman carried them to every win they possibly could have gotten. Just not the case with us. Losing to New Orleans and Atlanta is one thing, but you can't get blown out by Seattle and lose to Carolina. Different can of worms.

I'm not quite sure how good Tampa's line is but stats can be deceiving. Is it just based off sacks or are pressure included too. Freeman is great at escaping the rush and dumping it off. His body frame and athleticism allows him to escape more rushes than your average qb.

You're overrating Olson. Nothing against him but his resume is not Norv Turner's. His track record as an offensive coordinator was limited. Scott Linehan called the offense for the Rams to late in the season when they finished 6th, and when he did hand it over to Olson the following year it regressed to 24th.

You must of forgotten what the zone was like back then. It was evenly divided between Smith and Hill supporters and yes level of competition was brought up with Shaun Hill. I know I talked about it.

You don't think blount played a little part in their success?...Lets see here: 17th passing game in the league, 8th rushing game...

We had a s**t season that basically had everything wrong you could possibly ask to go wrong(s**t coaches, instable o-line, then alex got hurt, then we stuck in even s**ttier troy...then gore got hurt) Of course we lost to some s**t teams.

The only great thing about freeman is he plays a clean game with low turnovers, otherwise he's a 215 yd/game QB just like mr.alex smith. Good enough to make the key throws to win you the game but won't carry a game by himself either. You're massively discrediting the 1400 yds+8tds they got from their rbs.

I think alex could definitely put up a year like freeman's with a solid line and coordinator that has some brains between his ears. That's about as good as you need to be to make the playoffs if you've got a good run game going and decent pass defense.

Youre missing the point. Its not the yards Freeman throws for its the low number of turnovers. He's bette than Aex now and will always be better.

Can I haz the powerball numberz pleeze? Seriously, you were doing alright until you went all Miss Cleo.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by mike:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Up to this point our discussion was just breaking down the 91 rating. I get it. If you start at the point were competition becomes soft quarterback rating tends to improve.

Go look at Josh Freeman's QBR when he was playing the better teams.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12473/josh-freeman

... and this is with NFL quality offensive coach Olson... a well established coordinator and QB coach. This is also with an OL that ranked in the top half of the league in regards to pass protection.


.... and no one minded when Shaun Hill played "decent" football against soft teams down the stretch in 2008.

... and LOL at you LOL at me too, so take that!

( see? Kinda obnoxious and juvenile, huh )

Over the course of the year Freeman without a doubt played better than Alex. 95.9 quarterback rating and 9 turnovers in a full season. Alex had 12 turnovers in 11 games. Yeah they only beat teams that missed the playoffs, but that's my point regarding Smith. Tampa wasn't ready to be a playoff team but Freeman carried them to every win they possibly could have gotten. Just not the case with us. Losing to New Orleans and Atlanta is one thing, but you can't get blown out by Seattle and lose to Carolina. Different can of worms.

I'm not quite sure how good Tampa's line is but stats can be deceiving. Is it just based off sacks or are pressure included too. Freeman is great at escaping the rush and dumping it off. His body frame and athleticism allows him to escape more rushes than your average qb.

You're overrating Olson. Nothing against him but his resume is not Norv Turner's. His track record as an offensive coordinator was limited. Scott Linehan called the offense for the Rams to late in the season when they finished 6th, and when he did hand it over to Olson the following year it regressed to 24th.

You must of forgotten what the zone was like back then. It was evenly divided between Smith and Hill supporters and yes level of competition was brought up with Shaun Hill. I know I talked about it.

You don't think blount played a little part in their success?...Lets see here: 17th passing game in the league, 8th rushing game...

We had a s**t season that basically had everything wrong you could possibly ask to go wrong(s**t coaches, instable o-line, then alex got hurt, then we stuck in even s**ttier troy...then gore got hurt) Of course we lost to some s**t teams.

The only great thing about freeman is he plays a clean game with low turnovers, otherwise he's a 215 yd/game QB just like mr.alex smith. Good enough to make the key throws to win you the game but won't carry a game by himself either. You're massively discrediting the 1400 yds+8tds they got from their rbs.

I think alex could definitely put up a year like freeman's with a solid line and coordinator that has some brains between his ears. That's about as good as you need to be to make the playoffs if you've got a good run game going and decent pass defense.

Youre missing the point. Its not the yards Freeman throws for its the low number of turnovers. He's bette than Aex now and will always be better.

Can I haz the powerball numberz pleeze? Seriously, you were doing alright until you went all Miss Cleo.

Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by mike:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Up to this point our discussion was just breaking down the 91 rating. I get it. If you start at the point were competition becomes soft quarterback rating tends to improve.

Go look at Josh Freeman's QBR when he was playing the better teams.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12473/josh-freeman

... and this is with NFL quality offensive coach Olson... a well established coordinator and QB coach. This is also with an OL that ranked in the top half of the league in regards to pass protection.


.... and no one minded when Shaun Hill played "decent" football against soft teams down the stretch in 2008.

... and LOL at you LOL at me too, so take that!

( see? Kinda obnoxious and juvenile, huh )

Over the course of the year Freeman without a doubt played better than Alex. 95.9 quarterback rating and 9 turnovers in a full season. Alex had 12 turnovers in 11 games. Yeah they only beat teams that missed the playoffs, but that's my point regarding Smith. Tampa wasn't ready to be a playoff team but Freeman carried them to every win they possibly could have gotten. Just not the case with us. Losing to New Orleans and Atlanta is one thing, but you can't get blown out by Seattle and lose to Carolina. Different can of worms.

I'm not quite sure how good Tampa's line is but stats can be deceiving. Is it just based off sacks or are pressure included too. Freeman is great at escaping the rush and dumping it off. His body frame and athleticism allows him to escape more rushes than your average qb.

You're overrating Olson. Nothing against him but his resume is not Norv Turner's. His track record as an offensive coordinator was limited. Scott Linehan called the offense for the Rams to late in the season when they finished 6th, and when he did hand it over to Olson the following year it regressed to 24th.

You must of forgotten what the zone was like back then. It was evenly divided between Smith and Hill supporters and yes level of competition was brought up with Shaun Hill. I know I talked about it.

You don't think blount played a little part in their success?...Lets see here: 17th passing game in the league, 8th rushing game...

We had a s**t season that basically had everything wrong you could possibly ask to go wrong(s**t coaches, instable o-line, then alex got hurt, then we stuck in even s**ttier troy...then gore got hurt) Of course we lost to some s**t teams.

The only great thing about freeman is he plays a clean game with low turnovers, otherwise he's a 215 yd/game QB just like mr.alex smith. Good enough to make the key throws to win you the game but won't carry a game by himself either. You're massively discrediting the 1400 yds+8tds they got from their rbs.

I think alex could definitely put up a year like freeman's with a solid line and coordinator that has some brains between his ears. That's about as good as you need to be to make the playoffs if you've got a good run game going and decent pass defense.

Youre missing the point. Its not the yards Freeman throws for its the low number of turnovers. He's bette than Aex now and will always be better.

This, and you're talking about a guy who is in year 2 of development playing with rookies. He's looking like a young Tom Brady. Money at the end of the game, and it just one helluva game manager.

Then again I do admit to being bias towards him because he won me my fantasy championship. 7 touchdowns 0 picks in the final 2 games. Now that's padding your stats at the end of the year.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Aug 7, 2011 at 5:54 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:


First off we were relatively injury free last year. All of Smith's weapons were healthy through out the year.


Was happy to read and not post until these comments. Heitmann out all year and Gore out in Game 12 for the rest of the season...when Smith was making his run and having a decent QB rating.

Center is one of the most important positions for continuity with the QB and without Gore teams knew that it was up to Smith and the passing game to win, so they could scheme against the pass. Unless you think they didn't notice Gore's absence.

And as far as Smith's weapons, what exacty are they past Gore? VD and...oh yeah, the underwhelming WR core.

Are you really arguing that the 9ers were a formidable team except for Smith?

Heittman got injured on June 30th. We had more time to address that problem than we do now with Baas leaving via fa. Plus it was a move most wanted to see anyways.

Regarding Gore's injury. You're talking about 2 games were it actually effected Alex. Seattle and he played great, and SD were we had no chance in Hell to win in any scenario. Arizona was meaningless preseason game, and St Louis Alex didn't get in to the 4th quarter when we were in complete passing mode.

You implied that Smith had this awesome offense with all the tools and no problems, which is why I pointed out the many problems he had, while oldman9er added Staley's injury, etc. But you ignore this as if it isn't a big deal.

So losing a veteran center doesn't matter as long as you have an extra month to find a replacement? You fail to recognize that the entire offensive line was either injured or inexperienced to the extreme.

Gore was injured in the 12th game, which means the 9ers did not have his services for part of game 12 and all of games 13, 14, 15 and 16. You make light of that as well by criticizing the opponents, which I see as a cop out. During those games Smith played his best of the year, partly because Johnson was calling the plays, not Raye.

Arizona was not a preseason game...you must have a bad calendar. NFL teams are NFL teams. Smith played pretty well against several top notch teams and not so good against others. Do I want to see improvement and consistency? Of course! But I can't accept excuses from posters jinned up to make Smith the scape goat.

Criticize his vision, touch, decision making...those are real concerns. Calling an NFL team a Junior College team, as someone has done, is just blather.

I enjoy this exercise in improved self expression and am not saying you shouldn't have your own opinion.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:


First off we were relatively injury free last year. All of Smith's weapons were healthy through out the year.


Was happy to read and not post until these comments. Heitmann out all year and Gore out in Game 12 for the rest of the season...when Smith was making his run and having a decent QB rating.

Center is one of the most important positions for continuity with the QB and without Gore teams knew that it was up to Smith and the passing game to win, so they could scheme against the pass. Unless you think they didn't notice Gore's absence.

And as far as Smith's weapons, what exacty are they past Gore? VD and...oh yeah, the underwhelming WR core.

Are you really arguing that the 9ers were a formidable team except for Smith?

Heittman got injured on June 30th. We had more time to address that problem than we do now with Baas leaving via fa. Plus it was a move most wanted to see anyways.

Regarding Gore's injury. You're talking about 2 games were it actually effected Alex. Seattle and he played great, and SD were we had no chance in Hell to win in any scenario. Arizona was meaningless preseason game, and St Louis Alex didn't get in to the 4th quarter when we were in complete passing mode.

You implied that Smith had this awesome offense with all the tools and no problems, which is why I pointed out the many problems he had, while oldman9er added Staley's injury, etc. But you ignore this as if it isn't a big deal.

So losing a veteran center doesn't matter as long as you have an extra month to find a replacement? You fail to recognize that the entire offensive line was either injured or inexperienced to the extreme.

Gore was injured in the 12th game, which means the 9ers did not have his services for part of game 12 and all of games 13, 14, 15 and 16. You make light of that as well by criticizing the opponents, which I see as a cop out. During those games Smith played his best of the year, partly because Johnson was calling the plays, not Raye.

Arizona was not a preseason game...you must have a bad calendar. NFL teams are NFL teams. Smith played pretty well against several top notch teams and not so good against others. Do I want to see improvement and consistency? Of course! But I can't accept excuses from posters jinned up to make Smith the scape goat.

Criticize his vision, touch, decision making...those are real concerns. Calling an NFL team a Junior College team, as someone has done, is just blather.

I enjoy this exercise in improved self expression and am not saying you shouldn't have your own opinion.

Could always add Micheal Crabtree missing TC's and Pre-season. WHen your number 1 reciever isn't even there instilling a new offense, that changes things.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:


First off we were relatively injury free last year. All of Smith's weapons were healthy through out the year.


Was happy to read and not post until these comments. Heitmann out all year and Gore out in Game 12 for the rest of the season...when Smith was making his run and having a decent QB rating.

Center is one of the most important positions for continuity with the QB and without Gore teams knew that it was up to Smith and the passing game to win, so they could scheme against the pass. Unless you think they didn't notice Gore's absence.

And as far as Smith's weapons, what exacty are they past Gore? VD and...oh yeah, the underwhelming WR core.

Are you really arguing that the 9ers were a formidable team except for Smith?

Heittman got injured on June 30th. We had more time to address that problem than we do now with Baas leaving via fa. Plus it was a move most wanted to see anyways.

Regarding Gore's injury. You're talking about 2 games were it actually effected Alex. Seattle and he played great, and SD were we had no chance in Hell to win in any scenario. Arizona was meaningless preseason game, and St Louis Alex didn't get in to the 4th quarter when we were in complete passing mode.

You implied that Smith had this awesome offense with all the tools and no problems, which is why I pointed out the many problems he had, while oldman9er added Staley's injury, etc. But you ignore this as if it isn't a big deal.

So losing a veteran center doesn't matter as long as you have an extra month to find a replacement? You fail to recognize that the entire offensive line was either injured or inexperienced to the extreme.

Gore was injured in the 12th game, which means the 9ers did not have his services for part of game 12 and all of games 13, 14, 15 and 16. You make light of that as well by criticizing the opponents, which I see as a cop out. During those games Smith played his best of the year, partly because Johnson was calling the plays, not Raye.

Arizona was not a preseason game...you must have a bad calendar. NFL teams are NFL teams. Smith played pretty well against several top notch teams and not so good against others. Do I want to see improvement and consistency? Of course! But I can't accept excuses from posters jinned up to make Smith the scape goat.

Criticize his vision, touch, decision making...those are real concerns. Calling an NFL team a Junior College team, as someone has done, is just blather.

I enjoy this exercise in improved self expression and am not saying you shouldn't have your own opinion.

How did I imply that Alex Smith had an awesome offense? I didn't evaluate our talent in way shape or form. Just said we didn't win games we should have won, and I expect Alex to make the most of our talent like Freeman did. I don't think we played up to our talent level. That's not saying we have 07 Patriots type talent.

Extra month? We had the entire training camp to address the issue. Once again I didn't address the talent of the offensive line. I said Heittman's loss was irrelvant, and I pretty much stand by that. You know and I know it with the exception of Maddog we all wanted Baas to take that job for years. He was an improvement to the line.

Alex Smith was reinstated as the starter in week 14 and benched for 3 quarters in week 16. He didn't play in weeks 12 and 13 hence why I made no mention of it. We're talking about Alex's play here not our qbs in general. He played great against Seattle, and so so against San Diego in a route. Week 16 he got a quarter of action and played well. Too little too late though and that was the actual end of the season. No, I do not count that game against Arizona. You can say they're an NFL team all you want but they were there in body only and that's clear as day. It was a worthless, meaningless game were only one side showed up to play (with the exception of Fitz) on all ends of the field.

You're right I made a couple mistakes. Forget about the Staley injury. Yes it was a significant injury, but like the Gore injury only affected Alex during his 2nd stint as a starter. That's 3 out of 10 starts. The second mistake I made was saying Alex got benched during the Carolina game. He got injured in the Carolina game and that slipped my mind. Oldman was also right that Smith played no factor in that loss so I retract that statement.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Aug 7, 2011 at 8:49 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
[

How did I imply that Alex Smith had an awesome offense? I didn't evaluate our talent in way shape or form. Just said we didn't win games we should have won. Are you going to dispute that? You really think we played up to our talent level?

Extra month? We had the entire training camp to address the issue. Once again I didn't address the talent of the offensive line in way shape or form. I said Heittman's loss was irrelvant, and I pretty much stand by that. You know and I know it with the exception of Maddog we all wanted Baas to take that job for years.

Alex Smith was reinstated as the starter in week 14 and benched for 3 quarters in week 16. He didn't play in weeks 12 and 13 hence why I made no mention of it. We're talking about Alex's play here not our qbs in general. He played great against Seattle, and so so against San Diego in a route. Week 16 he got a quarter of action and played well. Too little too late though and that was the actual end of the season. No, I do not count that game against Arizona. You can say they're an NFL team all you want but they were there in body only and that's clear as day. It was a worthless, meaningless game were only one side showed up to play on all ends of the field.

Let's stick to the things I actually said this time. You're right I made a couple mistakes. Forget about the Staley injury. Yes it was a significant injury, but like the Gore injury only affected Alex during his 2nd stint as a starter. That's 3 out of 10 starts. The second mistake I made was saying Alex got benched during the Carolina game. He got injured in the Carolina game and that slipped my mind.

Hyperbolic on my part perhaps, as you said, "First off we were relatively injury free last year. All of Smith's weapons were healthy through out the year." This was wrong as Gore, being the biggest weapon on the team, was injured in game 12 and the relatively injury free year had his two most experienced OLmen down. Crabtree missed TC and wasn't good for the first five games, though did improve after that.

So my hyperbole sees your hyperbole and raises the reality card...The 9ers were not a good team last year due to injuries, coaching, and inexperience on the line. The coaching also affected the D as they declined as well.

You say that these injuries only affected Smith's second stint as QB...during which he played much better and became, with the help of VD, a team leader.

We see things differently but that's OK. If Smith plays well this year I get to say "Told you!" If he is the same inconsistent guy you can say it.

At this point I agree with the poster who suggested we curtail discussion about the past so that we can discuss this year. I'm excited as heck and hope you are as well!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Aug 7, 2011 at 8:59 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
[

How did I imply that Alex Smith had an awesome offense? I didn't evaluate our talent in way shape or form. Just said we didn't win games we should have won. Are you going to dispute that? You really think we played up to our talent level?

Extra month? We had the entire training camp to address the issue. Once again I didn't address the talent of the offensive line in way shape or form. I said Heittman's loss was irrelvant, and I pretty much stand by that. You know and I know it with the exception of Maddog we all wanted Baas to take that job for years.

Alex Smith was reinstated as the starter in week 14 and benched for 3 quarters in week 16. He didn't play in weeks 12 and 13 hence why I made no mention of it. We're talking about Alex's play here not our qbs in general. He played great against Seattle, and so so against San Diego in a route. Week 16 he got a quarter of action and played well. Too little too late though and that was the actual end of the season. No, I do not count that game against Arizona. You can say they're an NFL team all you want but they were there in body only and that's clear as day. It was a worthless, meaningless game were only one side showed up to play on all ends of the field.

Let's stick to the things I actually said this time. You're right I made a couple mistakes. Forget about the Staley injury. Yes it was a significant injury, but like the Gore injury only affected Alex during his 2nd stint as a starter. That's 3 out of 10 starts. The second mistake I made was saying Alex got benched during the Carolina game. He got injured in the Carolina game and that slipped my mind.

Hyperbolic on my part perhaps, as you said, "First off we were relatively injury free last year. All of Smith's weapons were healthy through out the year." This was wrong as Gore, being the biggest weapon on the team, was injured in game 12 and the relatively injury free year had his two most experienced OLmen down. Crabtree missed TC and wasn't good for the first five games, though did improve after that.

So my hyperbole sees your hyperbole and raises the reality card...The 9ers were not a good team last year due to injuries, coaching, and inexperience on the line. The coaching also affected the D as they declined as well.

You say that these injuries only affected Smith's second stint as QB...during which he played much better and became, with the help of VD, a team leader.

We see things differently but that's OK. If Smith plays well this year I get to say "Told you!" If he is the same inconsistent guy you can say it. At this point I agree with the poster who suggested we curtail discussion about the past so that we can discuss this year. I'm excited as heck and hope you are as well!

We see things differently about the past but not probally not the future. I think Smith has a good season and earns himself an extension.
Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by mike:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Up to this point our discussion was just breaking down the 91 rating. I get it. If you start at the point were competition becomes soft quarterback rating tends to improve.

Go look at Josh Freeman's QBR when he was playing the better teams.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12473/josh-freeman

... and this is with NFL quality offensive coach Olson... a well established coordinator and QB coach. This is also with an OL that ranked in the top half of the league in regards to pass protection.


.... and no one minded when Shaun Hill played "decent" football against soft teams down the stretch in 2008.

... and LOL at you LOL at me too, so take that!

( see? Kinda obnoxious and juvenile, huh )

Over the course of the year Freeman without a doubt played better than Alex. 95.9 quarterback rating and 9 turnovers in a full season. Alex had 12 turnovers in 11 games. Yeah they only beat teams that missed the playoffs, but that's my point regarding Smith. Tampa wasn't ready to be a playoff team but Freeman carried them to every win they possibly could have gotten. Just not the case with us. Losing to New Orleans and Atlanta is one thing, but you can't get blown out by Seattle and lose to Carolina. Different can of worms.

I'm not quite sure how good Tampa's line is but stats can be deceiving. Is it just based off sacks or are pressure included too. Freeman is great at escaping the rush and dumping it off. His body frame and athleticism allows him to escape more rushes than your average qb.

You're overrating Olson. Nothing against him but his resume is not Norv Turner's. His track record as an offensive coordinator was limited. Scott Linehan called the offense for the Rams to late in the season when they finished 6th, and when he did hand it over to Olson the following year it regressed to 24th.

You must of forgotten what the zone was like back then. It was evenly divided between Smith and Hill supporters and yes level of competition was brought up with Shaun Hill. I know I talked about it.

You don't think blount played a little part in their success?...Lets see here: 17th passing game in the league, 8th rushing game...

We had a s**t season that basically had everything wrong you could possibly ask to go wrong(s**t coaches, instable o-line, then alex got hurt, then we stuck in even s**ttier troy...then gore got hurt) Of course we lost to some s**t teams.

The only great thing about freeman is he plays a clean game with low turnovers, otherwise he's a 215 yd/game QB just like mr.alex smith. Good enough to make the key throws to win you the game but won't carry a game by himself either. You're massively discrediting the 1400 yds+8tds they got from their rbs.

I think alex could definitely put up a year like freeman's with a solid line and coordinator that has some brains between his ears. That's about as good as you need to be to make the playoffs if you've got a good run game going and decent pass defense.

Youre missing the point. Its not the yards Freeman throws for its the low number of turnovers. He's bette than Aex now and will always be better.

Can I haz the powerball numberz pleeze? Seriously, you were doing alright until you went all Miss Cleo.


She looks like she is livin 420
After game 1, it is obvious ALex Smith doesnt have the accuracy to be extremely successful in the west coast offense. Too much of this offense relies on accuracy. ALex had three passing attempts where a good accurate throw would have resulted in a nice gain. He made one good accurate throw in three tries. Two of the throws were god awful. At least today, he was still doing the same things he has been doing for the past 6 years, that leads me to believe that he is the same old ALex.

After game 1, it is obvious that Colin Kaepernick is not nearly experienced/polished enough to to be our starter in 2011. He had some impressive plays, some rookie mistakes and some poor decisions. But he did he hit a couple slants very nicely. There is clearly potential here, but he is far too green IMO.

Sigh.
Smith stinks. Just face it. O-line was garbage tonight. Totally unprepared to face the blitz. Should have been like the Raiders. Admit you blew it with the first pick and move on. Don't resign the problem. Unbelievable.