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This formula for best OL is so flawed

http://sfo.scout.com/2/1081040.html

Of course our offensive line is going to suck. The offense was so predictable, an amateur knew what downs they would run or pass. When you have 3rd and 9 on a consistent basis, with a qb who holds onto the ball too long and is indescisive, your OL will ALL look bad.

The OL is fine, re sign Sims for a two year deal as a back up, and move forward.

If Harbaugh can do what I think he can, Defenses will no longer put 8 men in the box on running downs, because if they do it will be a quick pass outside of the box. Hopefully more first downs and 3rd and 2's, and voila the OL will rate better.
im guessing you didnt watch any games last year (except maybe the arizona and seahawks games where our o line actually looked decent)
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
im guessing you didnt watch any games last year (except maybe the arizona and seahawks games where our o line actually looked decent)

I am guessing you did not read the article and my post. I did not state our OL was good last year, it sucked, as you pointed out. However with a new system, being less predictable, and hopefully a qb who can get it out of his hands in less than 2.3 seconds, the OL will look good. Face the facts, the niners have 3 first round picks, and two second round picks, and one first round TE. These ARE the players of the future, now they just need to use them better.

If you put David Baas on the Colts he would have the same rating as Jeff Saturday. If you put Jeff Saturday on the Niners last year his numbers would suck.

Do you get my drift now, it is a flawed article.
I read the article very carefully, and although I may not completely agree with the formula, the one thing that stands out is just how bad our o-line is in pass protection.

I'm not gonna beat a dead horse and try to debate anyone on their interpretation of the article. The thing i liked is that it didnt even bring up any Qb's whom we have had under center. So i give kudos to the writer of the article.

I read in other posts where it was said that put a Rodgers or anyone else etc other than what we have and we'd be golden. Well i think the pointing out of how bad our oline in pass protection really is, speaks volumes, and takes the focus off of whomever our QB was or is.

Overall, I'm hoping that with the West Coast offense that even if the o-linemen do suck, that Harbaugh would put all of them in a position where the Qb will have at least 4 to 5 seconds to make all his reads. So many times last year the QB had only from 1 to 2.5 seconds to throw and by the 3rd second, the defender was laying on top of him.

I dont know who we will have under center just yet, but whomever it is, I guarantee u, this wont be a problem this upcoming year, because unlike a Troy Smith did with Sing, in arguing when he was supposed to be pulled.... like our new HC said, the best players will play, and if your not holding up your end, i strongly believe theyll be replaced in a heartbeat.

[ Edited by Jersey9er on Jun 21, 2011 at 09:15:26 ]
Good post, Jersey9er.

I do think we have talent on OL, but poor, predictable scheme and inexperience was our greatest enemy. Can't blame it all on scheme though, as there were far too many occasions when an individual lineman was simply beaten by his man, and much too quickly.

I read this when it first came out, but it seems somewhat relevant here...

( speaking on Harbaugh's/Roman's scheme )
Quote:

Todd Mortensen: The thing I enjoyed most about it was that everything was very clear in terms of my decision-making process. Just the way the scheme was set up. I knew where everyone on the field was going to be. I knew what aspects of a play would be good against a certain defense and what plays would not be good against a certain defense. And if the play lined up well, I knew exactly what I was looking for and we’d execute it and we’d be successful. And if it was a play that was called and I knew the defense wasn’t particularly well suited for the play, a lot of times we’d have the option to change the play at the line of scrimmage. Or there was something built into the play where we could alter it and get ourselves in a position to succeed.

So that’s what I really enjoyed about Jim’s offensive scheme. My decision-making process as a quarterback was very clear. When your decisions are clear as a quarterback you’re able to go through them a lot quicker and it makes it a lot easier to execute the offense. And that’s something that I really appreciated about his system and one the things that really helped me blossom.


http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/inside-the-49ers/playing-for-harbaugh-a-quarterbacks-perspective/
  • Chief
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,892
All that crap is a bunch of trash that does not take into account hundreds of variables. I'm not saying our pass protection is great, or even good... But that number pushing doesn't really say much to me because of all the things not accounted for.
Originally posted by 9erred:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
im guessing you didnt watch any games last year (except maybe the arizona and seahawks games where our o line actually looked decent)

I am guessing you did not read the article and my post. I did not state our OL was good last year, it sucked, as you pointed out. However with a new system, being less predictable, and hopefully a qb who can get it out of his hands in less than 2.3 seconds, the OL will look good. Face the facts, the niners have 3 first round picks, and two second round picks, and one first round TE. These ARE the players of the future, now they just need to use them better.

If you put David Baas on the Colts he would have the same rating as Jeff Saturday. If you put Jeff Saturday on the Niners last year his numbers would suck.

Do you get my drift now, it is a flawed article.

yeah we got guys we've reached for and are lazy and rich now(davis,chilio) ...great o-line
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Good post, Jersey9er.

I do think we have talent on OL, but poor, predictable scheme and inexperience was our greatest enemy. Can't blame it all on scheme though, as there were far too many occasions when an individual lineman was simply beaten by his man, and much too quickly.

I read this when it first came out, but it seems somewhat relevant here...

( speaking on Harbaugh's/Roman's scheme )
Quote:

Todd Mortensen: The thing I enjoyed most about it was that everything was very clear in terms of my decision-making process. Just the way the scheme was set up. I knew where everyone on the field was going to be. I knew what aspects of a play would be good against a certain defense and what plays would not be good against a certain defense. And if the play lined up well, I knew exactly what I was looking for and we’d execute it and we’d be successful. And if it was a play that was called and I knew the defense wasn’t particularly well suited for the play, a lot of times we’d have the option to change the play at the line of scrimmage. Or there was something built into the play where we could alter it and get ourselves in a position to succeed.

So that’s what I really enjoyed about Jim’s offensive scheme. My decision-making process as a quarterback was very clear. When your decisions are clear as a quarterback you’re able to go through them a lot quicker and it makes it a lot easier to execute the offense. And that’s something that I really appreciated about his system and one the things that really helped me blossom.


http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/inside-the-49ers/playing-for-harbaugh-a-quarterbacks-perspective/

I agree with everyone here...one of the things that can be added to the formula is, Time, perhaps ony holding blocks under 4 seconds and give additional points for holding blocks for 4+ seconds no matter what the QB does and look at more quality of the play vs. quantity. B/c even if the QB does hold the ball, often times it's b/c the WR's are not getting open so you can't fault him or the o-line for that. But at the end of the day, since every line is compared to the same general formula, it does paint a picture that we can't pass protect well for a myriad of reasons (no shocker to anyone here) and it is reasonable to expect the new coaching regime is well versed on all of these issues that affect poor pass blocking (predictable scheme/philosophy, receivers, indecisive QB decision making, poor individual play and play recognition, inability to adjust to defensive calls, not getting plays in timely, lack of success on 1st and 2nd downs, etc.). Overall, it was a very well-written article IMHO and I appreciate the deeper dive into the stats even if they need refinement. It's a good start...
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Good post, Jersey9er.

I do think we have talent on OL, but poor, predictable scheme and inexperience was our greatest enemy. Can't blame it all on scheme though, as there were far too many occasions when an individual lineman was simply beaten by his man, and much too quickly.

I read this when it first came out, but it seems somewhat relevant here...

( speaking on Harbaugh's/Roman's scheme )
Quote:

Todd Mortensen: The thing I enjoyed most about it was that everything was very clear in terms of my decision-making process. Just the way the scheme was set up. I knew where everyone on the field was going to be. I knew what aspects of a play would be good against a certain defense and what plays would not be good against a certain defense. And if the play lined up well, I knew exactly what I was looking for and we’d execute it and we’d be successful. And if it was a play that was called and I knew the defense wasn’t particularly well suited for the play, a lot of times we’d have the option to change the play at the line of scrimmage. Or there was something built into the play where we could alter it and get ourselves in a position to succeed.

So that’s what I really enjoyed about Jim’s offensive scheme. My decision-making process as a quarterback was very clear. When your decisions are clear as a quarterback you’re able to go through them a lot quicker and it makes it a lot easier to execute the offense. And that’s something that I really appreciated about his system and one the things that really helped me blossom.


http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/inside-the-49ers/playing-for-harbaugh-a-quarterbacks-perspective/

I agree with everyone here...one of the things that can be added to the formula is, Time, perhaps ony holding blocks under 4 seconds and give additional points for holding blocks for 4+ seconds no matter what the QB does and look at more quality of the play vs. quantity. B/c even if the QB does hold the ball, often times it's b/c the WR's are not getting open so you can't fault him or the o-line for that. But at the end of the day, since every line is compared to the same general formula, it does paint a picture that we can't pass protect well for a myriad of reasons (no shocker to anyone here) and it is reasonable to expect the new coaching regime is well versed on all of these issues that affect poor pass blocking (predictable scheme/philosophy, receivers, indecisive QB decision making, poor individual play and play recognition, inability to adjust to defensive calls, not getting plays in timely, lack of success on 1st and 2nd downs, etc.). Overall, it was a very well-written article IMHO and I appreciate the deeper dive into the stats even if they need refinement. It's a good start...

this is really what it all comes down to. if you can keep the defense guessing your team/o-line will look better.
Originally posted by Chief:
All that crap is a bunch of trash that does not take into account hundreds of variables. I'm not saying our pass protection is great, or even good... But that number pushing doesn't really say much to me because of all the things not accounted for.

Exactly

with all said anyway we slice the o line needs to step up and they have the talent to do so.
I would like to see the formula on how many times our O-line ruined a drive by a holding or false start penalty. I recall many instances last season where we were moving the ball well but turned a 2nd and 5 into a 2nd and 15. That was quite frustrating.
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
I would like to see the formula on how many times our O-line ruined a drive by a holding or false start penalty. I recall many instances last season where we were moving the ball well but turned a 2nd and 5 into a 2nd and 15. That was quite frustrating.

Another good point to add! I described us as a "dumb" team last year...a team that would constantly make critical mistakes at the most crucial times on top of many other issues; something a young/undisciplined team would make.
Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Good post, Jersey9er.

I do think we have talent on OL, but poor, predictable scheme and inexperience was our greatest enemy. Can't blame it all on scheme though, as there were far too many occasions when an individual lineman was simply beaten by his man, and much too quickly.

I read this when it first came out, but it seems somewhat relevant here...

( speaking on Harbaugh's/Roman's scheme )
Quote:

Todd Mortensen: The thing I enjoyed most about it was that everything was very clear in terms of my decision-making process. Just the way the scheme was set up. I knew where everyone on the field was going to be. I knew what aspects of a play would be good against a certain defense and what plays would not be good against a certain defense. And if the play lined up well, I knew exactly what I was looking for and we’d execute it and we’d be successful. And if it was a play that was called and I knew the defense wasn’t particularly well suited for the play, a lot of times we’d have the option to change the play at the line of scrimmage. Or there was something built into the play where we could alter it and get ourselves in a position to succeed.

So that’s what I really enjoyed about Jim’s offensive scheme. My decision-making process as a quarterback was very clear. When your decisions are clear as a quarterback you’re able to go through them a lot quicker and it makes it a lot easier to execute the offense. And that’s something that I really appreciated about his system and one the things that really helped me blossom.


http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/inside-the-49ers/playing-for-harbaugh-a-quarterbacks-perspective/

I agree with everyone here...one of the things that can be added to the formula is, Time, perhaps ony holding blocks under 4 seconds and give additional points for holding blocks for 4+ seconds no matter what the QB does and look at more quality of the play vs. quantity. B/c even if the QB does hold the ball, often times it's b/c the WR's are not getting open so you can't fault him or the o-line for that. But at the end of the day, since every line is compared to the same general formula, it does paint a picture that we can't pass protect well for a myriad of reasons (no shocker to anyone here) and it is reasonable to expect the new coaching regime is well versed on all of these issues that affect poor pass blocking (predictable scheme/philosophy, receivers, indecisive QB decision making, poor individual play and play recognition, inability to adjust to defensive calls, not getting plays in timely, lack of success on 1st and 2nd downs, etc.). Overall, it was a very well-written article IMHO and I appreciate the deeper dive into the stats even if they need refinement. It's a good start...

this is really what it all comes down to. if you can keep the defense guessing your team/o-line will look better.

Hands down, no question about it...same applies to a quality 3-4 defensive scheme. Proper game-planning for your opponens IS where it all starts and nobody knows this better than a Niner fan.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
I would like to see the formula on how many times our O-line ruined a drive by a holding or false start penalty. I recall many instances last season where we were moving the ball well but turned a 2nd and 5 into a 2nd and 15. That was quite frustrating.

Another good point to add! I described us as a "dumb" team last year...a team that would constantly make critical mistakes at the most crucial times on top of many other issues; something a young/undisciplined team would make.

dumb and maybe ran the most predictable run play EVER...morgan goes in motion and stops on the corner of the line and squats down...i HATED that play!!!! If we never run that play again JH will be a better coach than Sig regardless of his record....
Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
I would like to see the formula on how many times our O-line ruined a drive by a holding or false start penalty. I recall many instances last season where we were moving the ball well but turned a 2nd and 5 into a 2nd and 15. That was quite frustrating.

Another good point to add! I described us as a "dumb" team last year...a team that would constantly make critical mistakes at the most crucial times on top of many other issues; something a young/undisciplined team would make.

dumb and maybe ran the most predictable run play EVER...morgan goes in motion and stops on the corner of the line and squats down...i HATED that play!!!! If we never run that play again JH will be a better coach than Sig regardless of his record....

I laugh, to keep from crying!